[Closed] Trailforks now charging

So, trailforks or Strava?

For me Trailforks is far more useful than Strava. Creating a ride in an unknown area, I can find a segment, then find a recent route that included that segment. It also has an upto date description of the segment, often with pics and vids. I've been plotting my rides using this method for last 4 euro holidays. Each ride has been brilliant.

I dont find it much use in the UK outside of a select one or two places and the free version will still give you access to everything on PC so I'll likely do what I've done in the past and just print out a screen grab of the trails I want to find and put it in my pocket when riding.

I was just out yesterday using Trailforks to work out where the singletrack was, so it'd be a real loss for me. What to do

Shame that, is a poor move to remove competitors by making it free and then charging when they are are in a strong position. Especially when all the data they use is community funding. Could have just put an ad or two in imo. The premium version doesn't even offer anything that wasn't available for free yesterday.

Uninstalled the app and will just take screenshots as needed on my pc.

I only really use it if I go to Scotland etc so it’ll just be a case of subscribing for a month if I go on a trip, no biggy.

Unsurprisingly this is causing more of an issue across the pond (where I'm based).  Enigmas+1 - Classic .com move of using crowd sourced data and burning cash until you've driven competitors out of business before then charging for the service.

In most of Canada there isn't really an alternative (beyond screen shots of maps printed out) and it's become the default.  I've paid but I'm thinking they're going to have to work hard to keep good will as my motivation to help with what is now a paid service is lower (in terms of submitting conditions reports, trail edits etc).

Use the website on your phone instead of the app?

^That only works where you have a connection with data which isn't always the case (in fact my main riding area has limited cell coverage).  I also don't know if it'll link through with the gps then although if you can read a map that shouldn't be an issue.....

What does this mean for your trail associations and local admins?

We greatly appreciate the work local admins and ambassadors have put in to help map trails, as well as manage and curate the content in their areas. It's a vital piece in making a global platform like this work.

To recognize their continued efforts we are providing five free Trailforks Pro subscriptions per trail association, which are intended to be used by trail administrators. Also, members that are set up as local region admins on Trailforks can get a free Trailforks Pro subscription. They must have at least 10 Trailforks contribute points, meaning they’ve helped contribute some data to the platform. Local admins apply for free subscription here via the Trailforks website (not the app).

Seems fair enough.

Even than you're talking $17/$33 per year, hardly bank breaking stuff.

Ah. The Strava whingebags have a new target.

They've only done it to take the fuss away from the Grim Donut.

Only Pro members get new Donut content 😊

Doesn't really seem to change much in the end, not as much as the strava update did anyway. I really like trailforks and have added full towns of trails from scratch, I don't know if that designates me as region admin automatically?

Surely you can still download the tracks via the website and upload and overlay on your other map apps....

I've downloaded the gpx tracks in all the interesting areas and uploaded them to locus maps.

I get a detailed view of what lies between each trail.

But really, this is only a problem if you're planning trips further away... Right?

But really, this is only a problem if you’re planning trips further away… Right?

If you class a dollar fifty a month a problem, for what is a great app.

They have very little coverage round here, I find komoot much better, although I do pay for that anyway. But I do like riding new trails and not just the ones I know.

I wonder what that means for the overlayed trails on a Garmin. I couldn't quite work it out from their info on the website. Presumably they won't be there?

Never found Trailforks to be particularly useful. At least nearby, further afield maybe. Locally there's not much to see and what is on there is mostly bridleways, fire roads and a few well known trails, but with the wrong name. I'm interested in what happens to the Garmin integration now? Since it's a selling point of the latest models that may have been a factor in purchasing.

They can do one. I'm old enough to appreciate "I wonder where this trail goes". Trailforks actually removes something from the discovery. So while it's a brilliant tool, it dilutes the pleasure of a found trail.

Seems fair enough for a useful tool.

Worth noting that is Canadian dollars - so works out at only just over £10/year (with current discount) if you use a fee-free CC.

I changed from an element bolt to a garmin and one big reason was trail forks integration because of a trip to whistler and I just used it over the weekend to find off piste trails in wales. Also use it a lot when going to Scotland so a real blow. I wonder how garmin will be affected with the overlays and route importing. Already paying for strava so didn’t want another purchase really.

I'm with @Waderider on this...it is an old-fashioned view and people these days are time-sensitive - which they use as their reason not to go exploring but following instead.

Trailforks has proved useful in the past - and will in the future - not as a navigational tool, but more as confirmation that I'm in the right kind of area...

This kind of stuff can never be free forever, it'll take a small fortune to run all the servers and development of the tools for this. I hope it remains successful as the MI it can provide for a riding area for trail groups is great to aid with funding bids!

I changed from an element bolt to a garmin and one big reason was trail forks integration because of a trip to whistler and I just used it over the weekend to find off piste trails in wales. Also use it a lot when going to Scotland so a real blow. I wonder how garmin will be affected with the overlays and route importing. Already paying for strava so didn’t want another purchase really.

Yeah this is what I'm wondering too, how is it going to work with the Garmin integration?

Also use it a lot when going to Scotland so a real blow

As has been pointed out already, it's about a quid a month!!!! How on earth is that a 'real blow'??

Some people have a disproportionate sense of value.

Will happily fill a tank of fuel to drive to riding but a couple of quid to find good trails there is too much. See whinges about parking charges etc.

Honestly my last tyre was forty quid and my last drive to a trail probably cost me £25 in petrol.

If I'm visiting a new area and want a useful app to find some trails and help me navigate then I absolutely would pay £1.50 to use Trail forks even if it was just for that day.

You can't pay £1.50 though, you have to pay annually upfront even though they've been advertising it monthly. And that's only up until the end of September.

I think people are more pissed off that they've taken all the community driven data and are now going to charge those same people for their efforts. I personally don't mind as it's a decent service and have already signed up, but I can understand why some people are annoyed.

I think people are more pissed off that they’ve taken all the community driven data and are now going to charge those same people for their efforts.

hands up how many have actually contributed to trailforks rather than just consumed...

I added a few a while back but I seem to remember it being quite a tortuous process so I lost interest.

a real blow

Made me laugh!

hands up how many have actually contributed to trailforks rather than just consumed

Yes, I often write trail reports and as photos. I only really use it when abroad though, so that's only over the summer holiday period.
I think I might have created my local trail centre "qecp" a number of years ago when it first started, but it might have been on another app?

I do...but it seems to be a small headache as the stuff I submitted was rejected several times, then mysteriously appeared by someone else adding my trails...the same person kept rejecting them - entirely possible they were looking to get as many points as possible (but really not sure what the points actually mean or do) for themselves.

I use it to check stats on a local trail network, it provides some useful insight into the people who have ridden the trails and got their ride data to Trailforks - not everyone does but it gives a good insight into some of the riders - time of ride, trails ridden, etc. It doesn't give an individual breakdown, but gives a combined breakdown of times and trails and the like.

they could certainly make it easier to add trails.

not too easy though or it would end up in the mess that is strava with at least 15 different segments for every single trail.

I'll probably end up getting this.
Bit annoying you can't buy a month when going on holiday, but I can see the reasoning.

I refuse to pay for strava though, just on the free version.

I cannot explain my internal logic...

Hmm, my app is still showing all trails, got a week or 2 in the tweed valley in a months time so will 100% need it for that.

You can’t pay [s]£[/s]CAD$1.50 though, you have to pay annually upfront even though they’ve been advertising it monthly.

A whole tenner, where will you find the money?

A whole tenner, where will you find the money?

If you bothered to read the rest of the post you'd see that I have paid for it because I like the app. I only brought that up because people would assume based on their advertising of pro that you can pay £1.50 for a month, which you can't.

The bit I’m uncomfortable with is that the app is as good as it is because people have freely added trails. Now they want to charge for an app built on the goodwill of the community

Shame that, is a poor move to remove competitors by making it free and then charging when they are are in a strong position. Especially when all the data they use is community funding. Could have just put an ad or two in imo. The premium version doesn’t even offer anything that wasn’t available for free yesterday.
Uninstalled the app and will just take screenshots as needed on my pc.

The bit I’m uncomfortable with is that the app is as good as it is because people have freely added trails. Now they want to charge for an app built on the goodwill of the community

Is it a "Poor move"? I mean all that data mining your users isn't free, there's servers and app developers to pay for, what did you really expect? This is how "free things" from the commercial tech industry actually work, get users hooked and then either switch to a subscription or targeted advertising model. It's hardly without precedent...

Plus they have deliberately gone and left you a non-sub option;

To be clear, the website and access to maps and trail data remains free on the website. Only the map outside your free area in the Trailforks app will be greyed out unless you become a PRO subscriber.

Just use their website and print a map off for free...

Personally it's not really worth a subscription for me, there's next to bugger all trails on there for my local area on there, and if I'm taking a trip somewhere I'll research routes on the TF website and elsewhere in advance, Plus you can still use the "segment explorer" on non-sub Strava if you want to find some local cheeky to stitch together....

In most of Canada there isn’t really an alternative (beyond screen shots of maps printed out) and it’s become the default. .

Exactly! Plus depending on your part of Canada, it's a 5-7 months of the year activity; last year I got out on the MTB 4 times, so while $1.50 a month may not be much, it's not gonna happen for me.

And for those saying "oh, but it's not much money", you're absolutely right. More than anything it's just subscription fatigue. Each one is only a few $/£ a month, but by the time you add Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify, Headspace, Strava, Zwift it just hits a point where you're fed up having to subscribe to yet another thing

If I use the app it costs. If I use the website via my phone it’s free? Have I got that right? I can then download on my phone from the webpage all the route info I want

There was a restriction on how much you could download last time I looked so it isn't a complete solution.

Based on my local trails the "user input" is poor at best. Trails have been given names that no one recognises either from word-of-mouth or pre existing Strava. Some of them are also the wrong way round. Based on that, I've avoided using it elsewhere.

OpenStreetmap is still available and seems more useful.

Of course there are other mapping solutions that also rely on user-generated data and charge for it. Komoot for instance.

Now they want to charge for an app built on the goodwill of the community

I'd hazard a guess that for the vast majority of signifant contributors, this posted early in the thread probably covers it.

What does this mean for your trail associations and local admins?

We greatly appreciate the work local admins and ambassadors have put in to help map trails, as well as manage and curate the content in their areas. It’s a vital piece in making a global platform like this work.

To recognize their continued efforts we are providing five free Trailforks Pro subscriptions per trail association, which are intended to be used by trail administrators. Also, members that are set up as local region admins on Trailforks can get a free Trailforks Pro subscription. They must have at least 10 Trailforks contribute points, meaning they’ve helped contribute some data to the platform. Local admins apply for free subscription here via the Trailforks website (not the app).

apps don't magically develop themselves, servers don't magically run themselves. I'd be amazed if this makes them rich, I'd be surprised it just about covers the cost and that's probably ignoring any development time.

Trails locally (same as scotroutes) is patchy. I used TF to good effect when on my own exploring round Feshie - I wasn't really *looking* for specific trails, but it helped show me grading and name of the trail I was looking at. A few - Inca Trail - I was able to confirm that I was on what I thought I was on.

But not sure I'd look out for trails specifically - as above, I'm pretty happy to explore and backtrack if required.

And for those saying “oh, but it’s not much money”, you’re absolutely right. More than anything it’s just subscription fatigue. Each one is only a few $/£ a month, but by the time you add Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify, Headspace, Strava, Zwift it just hits a point where you’re fed up having to subscribe to yet another thing

Absolutely this. Online companies have now firmly cottoned onto the idea that recurring payments are a great moneyspinner. No consumer is going to pay £20 for the TrailForks app, but plenty seem happy paying £1.50 /month for years on end. See also phone contracts, gym membership.

Modern Life is Rubbish.

Funny how it's all the bloody freeloaders on here moaning about coughing up a couple of quid a month 😉

Modern Life is Rubbish.

I think you get WAY more value for money these days. For example, when I think what (as a family) we used to spend on CDs, DVDs, rentals etc, and now for a fraction of that we can have ALL the streaming services with all the movies, songs etc that we want! Do you want to go back to paying as you go, £16.99 for an album?! 😂 Used to spend £££ most months on various magazines as well, don’t miss those days either!

I'd hazard a guess that some of the old guard complaining about this have a stack of paper OS maps somewhere...

Actually the best use I've found for Trailforks is exploring the longer "Mountain bike" routes people post up mainly for riding on my gravel bike, as they are inevitably mixed on/off-road loops taking in some interesting bits of bridleway and trails, but again I'll take a map print and perhaps download a GPX to try and follow breadcrumb style on my (old) Garmin. but there's nothing really requiring me to use the app and/or subscribe to do this yet, So they've not really priced casual users like me out of the main resource on offer have they.

I suppose it's really only going to affect people who never plan and literally just head off somewhere and only bother when they arrive to look up nearby trials on the TF app... Are there many people who actually do this?
I mean I might break out google maps and/or a paper map if I'm following my nose and need to orientate myself, but I'll never just head off somewhere and completely rely on the tech to find me a random trail once I'm sat lost in the corner of a field... Nobody is that reliant on Trailforks are they?

I will say this, compared to paying for the extra Strava features a Trailforks sub seems like much better VFM...

I suppose it’s really only going to affect people who never plan and literally just head off somewhere and only bother when they arrive to look up nearby trials on the TF app… Are there many people who actually do this?
I mean I might break out google maps and/or a paper map if I’m following my nose and need to orientate myself, but I’ll never just head off somewhere and completely rely on the tech to find me a random trail once I’m sat lost in the corner of a field… Nobody is that reliant on Trailforks are they?

I'm off to the Tweed Valley in a few weeks.

Yes, I'll be relying on trailforks so I can find the trails I want... Sod trying to find anything in this spiders web unless you're local!!

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I think Trailforks is truly awesome and has literally changed the what I ride. Yes I could work off maps and go see the locals (if there happens to be a bike shop around and open) but the time saved finding wee tiny paths off fire roads and the speed of development of trails in Scotland means it's absolutely invaluable. In a world where time is precious I can explore so much more traily goodness when I'm not heading up/down dead ends and scrambling through heather/trees/bogs (although this does still happen sometimes). Guess I better pay for it then!

Aye, 100% with those two folks above, try exploring Tweed Valley, Ae, Burnside, Laggan etc without TF.

I'll be paying the money.

I’d be amazed if this makes them rich, I’d be surprised it just about covers the cost and that’s probably ignoring any development time.

i think they might, 552498 profiles at 1.5 Canadian a month.  That’s 100,000 Canadian per 1% of those profiles that upgrade.

i think they might, 552498 profiles at 1.5 Canadian a month. That’s 100,000 Canadian per 1% of those profiles that upgrade.

Yeah, but as Canadian Bacon demonstrated, that's about £10 total.

Obviously it depends on where you ride but i think trailforks is brilliant , i was at Balquhidder this morning for the first time  and knocked off everything i wanted without to much trouble . There is a time for exploring but if your into riding up fire roads and down hand cut singletrack trails i'd say its a bargain .

How big is the free "home" square?

38 square miles but you can set it to wherever you want .

3600 square kilometers (i.e. 60km x 60km)

I’ve jumped straight in and subscribed.  Love the app and the integration with my Garmin.  Data is a bit thin locally but the potential is there.  Strava has all the segments but too much to be useful at times and the Strava segment explore/search just doesn’t work well for me.  I can see Trailforks replacing Strava for me In the future

while i'd agree that the subscription model can end up kind of expensive ( i do not subscribe to streaming music, films, strava, zwift or anything else for that matter aside from utilities and council tax. phone is a straight out purchase with PAYG monthly subscription, cheap internet with no TV package ) this is not one of those occasions.
TBH i rather think it will lead people back to the idea of shouting out for a local guide when they go somewhere new which i think is a much better way of doing things but for those bemoaning the temerity of a company wishing to make money, FFS, get with it. 10 quid a year? that'll buy you two pints. 🙄

Think I would rather pay for this than strava....

Looking at strava segments hurts my head. Zooming in and out, never really knowing which direction the trail flows.

Am toying with getting Komoot, Trailforks is cleaner than Komoot.

The traditional map makers are the ones who are going to lose out. I always used to buy a map of a new or interesting area, but no longer see the need.

jam bo
Subscriber
hands up how many have actually contributed to trailforks rather than just consumed…

I added a few a while back but I seem to remember it being quite a tortuous process so I lost interest.

(hand in the air)

I've been the admin for Scotland for a few years, and the UK admin for a couple of years. Currently 6th highest contributor in the world.

The process is simple if you read the guides before you start adding content. It becomes difficult when you add stuff that doesnt meet the criteria required for inclusion.

On a side note.. If there are areas where there are trails but they aren't on Trailforks, feel free to ping me a message on trailforks and i will have a look at having them uploaded. Same goes if you find mistakes etc..

https://www.trailforks.com/profile/gav-s/

My 2p on the charges .. I can understand why people are getting upset, nobody likes it when you have to pay for something that you were once getting for free.. BUT, in order for trailforks to become more functional, more useful and just generally better.. It needs cash.

I fully understand that what's been put into Trail forks by the developers needs rewarding in some way, I just think that it may be to early in it's life, globally speaking. Sure it's doing well in North America,much of the English speaking world and around major bike tourist hot spots.
In countries where trail associations aren't the norm, it's underdeveloped and now that they're starting to charge, surely the user generated content will stagnate in those areas now. What's the point of feeding content into a subscription service?
Another possible side effect; would trail associations see donations through TF decline now that there's a subscription?

Does anyone have a better idea now how Garmin integration is affected by the subscription changes? Today seems to be the last day for getting the pro subscription at half price.

The trailforks layer on my Edge 530 seems to be at least 6 months out of date which suggests that it wasn't updated that regularly before the subscription changes came into effect. I don't need monthly updates but if it won't ever be updated again without the pro subscription I may be tempted to pay for it.

ocrider - I'd politely disagree. It's still free to locals (who will be doing most of the content uploading), so I expect we'll see slower growth but not "stagnation".

Perhaps a wider local area may have been wise, which they can still tweak, but personally I have no problem at all paying a small amount for such a useful app.

And I think a large number of people will subscribe in order to use it when "away".

I do not think you complain about the price.it costs next to nothing.

With strava being so road biased, as well as finding the route planning function bobbins I cancelled my subscription as it was a lot of money to be ‘curious’ about the times I was putting in on tracks in the grand scheme. Trailforks has been really quite useful for the places I don’t  know that well, allowing me to maximise the ride time.

its still clunky but seemed very reasonable in comparison, and it’s more mtb biased certainly in my area anyway

I've stumped up for the subs.
Seems a very small price for how usefull the app is.

I've shunned strava subs, but happy to pay for trailforks. Way more useful, especially for riding in a new area and finding the trails (doubly so with Garmin integration)
If I need longer route planning then I find Komoot quite good. Relatively easy to start with a base route and then tweak it to suite before syncing the route to Garmin.

I've stumped up as well, £12 for the year seems a very reasonable price. I don't use it very often but think it's an excellent app when I do.

Perhaps a wider local area may have been wise,

30km in any direction seems about right. Enough to let you demo the app and see if it works, and enough that it's probably edge cases who will know trails outside the area enough to contribute.

Give me an area of 60x60km and I can probably contribute data on local trails and/or it's just telling me what I already know.

Make it bigger than that and I'd be consuming so makes sense to pay for it.

Also, $1.50 a month, how many wrong turns and pushing up a brambly mess of a deer trail that looked promising but faded out do you have to take to make it worth $1.50!

Jesus christ. I just cant believe anyone would moan about Trailforks daring to try generate some income that will allow them to make the app even better. STW really is the dailymail of the cycling forums.

Currently 6th highest contributor in the world.

Hats off to gavstorie. Tremendous effort.
Now I see your name I realise I follow you on strava, I ride the inners uplift almost every week and tend to look at the top 10 times on the day of the main trails I ride and follow those accounts. Think I've spotted that yeti a couple times. I'll say hello next time.

Just checked credit card and years subscription was £10.88. So about two visits to the Peel car park. Swithered about bothering but had an off piste ride at Glentress last week and it was invaluable in finding my way to the start and more importantly where I was at the end of trails. Will give it a year and see how much use I get out of it, but had a tenners use of worth out of it since I had it for sure.

Have signed up for it myself. Just a few examples, couple of years ago i used it abroad when i gave up on the cycle route map i got given, meant i knew what path i could take and went off and just explored the countryside. Also handy when up at places like innerleithen, good to know what track youre actually on! Used it a couple of weeks ago to find some of the strathpeffer route. Wouldnt have done any of them without the app so i think its good value for about a pound a month