[Closed] Trail centres - irrational dislike of.....

seasoned biker

A what now? Is this a new all mountain tag thingy?

Boltonjon, my gf did a 6 hour "slog" around W2 a couple of weeks ago, her sense of achievement and pride when she got back to car was immense, and she didn't stop gibbering on like a big kid for the whole drive home, she cannot wait to get to the Alps and holiday we booked, to suggest her achievement was any less hard earned because it happened to be a trail centre is pretty ****y, no?

I like both, but probably spend more time and trail centres these days partly due to 'grown up' life encroaching on my spare time and partly because of where I live (there's naff all localish, natural stuff worth riding).

I started riding in '96 so would class myself as fairly well seasoned but have never done the whole OS map / survival thing that some believe you need to do so be a true mountain biker. My first years of riding focused around the local woods bit quickly fell into the mucking about on jumps, drops and DH runs. This is probably why I quite like trail centres; the climbs are there to be endured and the downs to be enjoyed.

I also love natural stuff too - I lived in Sheffield for a few years and was pretty lucy to have some amazing riding on my door step as I lived in Lodge Moor. But even then, the riding was very much focused on slogging up to enjoy the descents. There are some great bits of riding around Wyming Brook and Stanage, but they don't really flow.

Bringing the whole value of bikes into it is pretty petty - who cares. Some can afford better bikes than others - who cares? I certainly don't fit into the stereotype as my trusty SX Trail is eight years old!

I believe that people need to get out there and discover mountain biking at its purest form - so if that means scratching around a welsh mountain with a wet & soggy OS map for 6 hours or trying to cobbled together some repair to get you back to civilisation - then that's what people need to do

Purely examples - stuff i cut my teeth on, things that taught me how to handle situations if it goes wrong.

Swoon...

No, trains... sorry.

Trains? TRAINS?

🙄

I'm afraid I can't talk to you anymore.

It's analogous to trad and sport climbing: trad climbers complain that sport climbers haven't "paid their dues". In MTB terms, that means learning to navigate and deal with tough days on rough tracks in the hills rather than how to rail a berm.

The snootiness is unpleasant but they have a point. If you only follow the arrows then you are missing out on a lot. Mountain bikes can take you a long way so get out there!

Edit: just adding a comment that if you find built trails dull, ride faster. Even the smoothest trails are anything but boring on a hard tail if you just lay off the brakes and hit everything faster than is comfortable.

Those claiming to be oblivious to any antagonism towards Trail centers/users on STW are joking right?
There is a small but vocal core of "Anti-Trail Center" STWers,

Why (to a large extent throughout the thread, I just picked the above as one example) are two totally different things being conflated:

1) Not liking trail centres
2) Not liking people who go to trail centres.

If you are a trail centre fan, and a different person says they don't like trail centres, why do you have to take that personally?

For the record, I'm not a big fan of trail centres, but I'm fully in favour of them existing, and I ride them occasionally. I got back into MTBing after 10-15 years out following a trip to Dalby, and my 7 year old's daughter's first experience of "mountain biking" as opposed to riding a mountain bike, was at Nevis.

That said, I'm not a fan in that I don't enjoy riding them as much as I do exploring natural stuff. Does this mean I'm supposed to not like people who do go to trail centres? If so, can someone explain why that should be, because it's not entirely clear?

[i] that means learning to navigate and deal with tough days on rough tracks in the hills rather than how to rail a berm.[/i]

Translation:

You can't come here to "enjoy yourself" you have to spend at least 20 years riding shit bikes with barely useless brakes and crap tyres like i have before you're allowed to buy yourself a nice bike and simply come here to have " fun"

🙄

trad climbers complain that sport climbers haven't "paid their dues"

I only do this because I'm jealous of those who are stronger climbers than me 🙂

For me trail centres offer the next challenge. I can read a map and I've done the "big days out". I've ridden back from the middle of nowhere with my saddle held on by bandages and sticky tape. I've suffered multiple mechanicals in one ride and ended up walking home. I've got back from an unprepared day in the hills and been so cold I've had to shower in my cycling kit because my fingers didn't work. All good character building stuff, but what I can't do is ride the Fort Bill downhill track anywhere near as fast as Steve Peat, I can't do tail whips at warp speed like Danny Hart and I can't do front flips like Sam Reynolds. I probably never will, but at trail centres I can at least practice the necessary skills more effectively than romping over some sodden, muddy hillside in the middle of nowhere. 15 remote off-road miles from home is not the place to practice that big drop off you've never plucked up courage to do before.

rogerthecat - Member

Red route around Ladybower is a very bad idea - trail maintenance is a good idea - perhaps someone should suggest it to the PPA and see if they bite?

i din't really propose it as a suggestion/request, i mentioned it for a thought experiment.

imagine that a route had been built, roughly following the current route, only it had more interesting climbs, and longer swoopy descents, and a weather-proof surface.

i suspect it would be more popular than the 'original'.

i could be wrong, but i know we'll never know

You'd be right.

They basically did this in the FoD - the Verderers trail is essentially a collection of the popular bits, covered in that grey hardpack gravel that all these built trails seem to be made of.

Personally, I think it's horrible, like the 'soul' has been ripped out. It is however massively popular.

It's entirely horses for courses though. A case in point: in November we had a boys bikey weekend in Dolgellau. On the Saturday we did Cadair Idris and breaking it down into it's constituent parts -

- it was a straight out and back/up and down route
- there were unrideable boggy bits (in both directions)
- there were unrideable rocky bits (in both directions)
- we got a bit lost
- it was freezing
- it was raining, hailing, sleeting and snowing

it should have been awful. I had a hoot; it was a proper adventure. Others 'tolerated' it.

On the Sunday we did CYB:

- it was warm
- it was dry and sunny
- it was all rideable (badly and only just in sections in my case).

I hated it and gave up halfway round, it was just so false. Others loved it.

[i]- it was a straight out and back/up and down route[/i]

[i]- we got a bit lost[/i]

A rare skill, chapeau sir...

..... the people who always head over to Afan of CYB for a weekend adventure on a bike - people who i would class as non-seasoned mountain bikers ...

That describes me and a few mates quite well. Apart from the last bit about us not being "seasoned mountain bikers"

Most of us have been riding mountain bikes since we were about 15/16 and all in our early 40's now.

Sorry we don't comply with your classification 🙁

[i]A rare skill, chapeau sir... [/i]

Why, thank you 🙂

I suppose I can see why people who haven't been out in the elements too much like those from big cities get excited about the novelty of an "adventure". That novelty has worn off for me now. I've spent far too long cold and wet on various training areas. Now I just want to go and have as much fun on my bicycle as I can and get a bit of exercise. Sometimes this is at trail centres, sometimes riding DH, sometimes natural stuff.

Those who ride mostly trail centers, what do you do the rest of the week (unless you live really localy to one)?

Now I just want to go and have as much fun on my bicycle as I can and get a bit of exercise

Can't argue with that. Case closed 🙂

Those who ride mostly trail centers, what do you do the rest of the week (unless you live really localy to one)?

I mostly go to work and come home too knackered to do much else other than eat something and fall asleep.

I can understand how office workers have excess energy to burn off though 😉

I ride my local trail centre (Cannock) mid week in the summer if I can. Also ride a few more of the natural / u official trail when the weather is better because they're bog fests when wet.

My local woods a good fun, but only first thing in the morning before the local scroates turn up.

Other than that I run or as will be the case this summer, get out in the road bike.

When I lived in Sheffield I still got bored of the riding on my doorstep...although looking back, I was just spoilt.

I can understand how office workers have excess energy to burn off though

Fair point

*ponders gettign some exercise and walking to the coffee machine*

Those who ride mostly trail centers, what do you do the rest of the week (unless you live really localy to one)?

I’ve ridden at Coed Y Brenin a few times but didn’t really enjoy it. Most of the stuff was OK but I hated the start of all the trails, where they’ve put in all that deliberately hard rocky pavement right near the car park (just when you won’t be warmed up).

I quite like riding slowly. And I quite like deep mud, it’s just another trail obstacle. I enjoy the challenge of clearing a churned up section of muddy bridleway. I also much prefer riding uphill to down.

I suppose I’ve never been a real mountain biker, I doubt I would be welcome at most trail centres.

Why (to a large extent throughout the thread, I just picked the above as one example) are two totally different things being conflated:

1) Not liking trail centres
2) Not liking people who go to trail centres.

Because a proportion (Not all) of those professing their dislike of trail centers seem to garnish their statements with negative comments on those that use TC's.

suggesting TC users lack common sense, the ability to plan for long period unsupported riding without popping back to the car or know how to read a map.

They are good fun but the do wiggle unnecessarily at times and it does my nut in! When they maximse elevation gain with some great flowing trails they are great though.

i just love riding bikes, natural, cheeky trail centre, i don't really care. The only thing I get a bit twitchy about is people....on the whole I hate people*, so very early morning or weekdays at a trail centre are just lovely. 😀

* did chat to some very pleasant gear dangler and boingy bike boys at llandegla though.

Hmmmm I'd prefer to ride really tough, high speed, technical natural trails all day. But sadly we live in the UK and the weather (especially this last few years) has been rubbish.

If you are into riding for the whole "outdoors" thing I guess that's fine. If you are into it more for blasting as fast as possible or are looking to work on technique etc by being able to session sections, then the variable weather, unreliable surfaces (due to said weather) and the fact not all "natural" places would test you makes a very compelling case for trail centres.

I quite like riding mtb trail centres, it's the only time/place I can 'chick' the chaps.

We haven't had the chance to get bored or become snobbish with trail centres yet as none of them have officially opened here. We're 10 years behind the mainland and most of us are happy to finally have some all-weather trails to ride and somewhere to take the family for a spin.

In my mind a good trail is a good trail. Doesn't mater if it's muck/roots/rocks/bones or made of gravel.

Also, the seasoned mountainbikers comment. 20 foot drops and 40 foot gap jumps are as much a part of mountainbiking as getting lost on a hill with some sandwiches and a multitool. You're missing out if you don't do these things and I pity you. 😀

Cracking thread STW's!!

For the record, i enjoy the odd trip to a trail centre - particularly some of the 7Stanes

However, attacking a natural trail with no idea of what might be over the next drop or blind corner is what gives me the ultimate buzz

I also love meeting various people out on the trails and having a natter about where they're from and where they are going

Likewise, i enjoy riding myself into a frenzy at trail centres, trying to catch and pass everyone i see on the trail and feeling very disappointed in myself if someone is quicker than me

Trail centres have done a massive amount to encourage, nurture and develop mountain biking to what it is today in the UK - which is an awesome sport

However - i'm not looking forward to Swinley forest becoming a mountain biking M25, so I'll be avoiding the new development, instead enjoying the natural stuff and embracing every weekend as another weekend of adventure 🙂

I generally prefer trail centres to natural stuff mainly because natural is often a load of slogging through muddy fields and gates to get to one alright descent, then repeat. I don't really like rocky tech stuff either so trail centres usually offer something more my style of riding. Saying that my favourite place to ride is probably the dh stuff at Woburn which isnt really a trail centre as such! More a selection of loads of mini bike park style runs which is my favourite kind of riding 🙂

There's a certain sort of old skool rider who's never happy with the idea of a sport that's open, accessible and welcoming. They'd rather bore you with tales of how much better it was when they were the only ones on "their" trails (trails which they were probably shown by someone else).

I wrote this quite recently but the idea was buzzing round my head for a while - what if other sports had the same snobbish attitude?

http://bristoltrails.tumblr.com/post/32864805917/natural-vs-man-made

since i started having to wear glasses to read, trail centres have become a more attractive option 😉

i'm not looking forward to Swinley forest becoming a mountain biking M25

Myself and a lot of other people had similar misgivings about the new trails in Bristol, then after the rainapocalypse last summer all the critics have mysteriously gone quiet. I think personally I'd have sold my bikes and taken up crochet if there wasn't a fast, fun weatherproof man-made trail for us to ride while the rest of the South West was turning to mush.

Just to add to an already long thread. I think, if pigeonholed, I would fall in the outdoorsy camp. I can map read and just love being outside, particularly in the mountains or by, or in, the sea. I have enjoyed creating numerous local routes over the years, map in hand, trial and error, getting lost. But, my trips to the myriad different mountains and hills of Britain are the highlights of the year - wether climbing or mountain biking.

However, I also do a fair bit of trail centre riding, such as W2 last Saturday with some club mates. It was a really top day. Trail Centres are great for a mud free, relatively logistically straightforward few hours or full day out. Plus, they offer a very different type of trail experience. E.g. you don't get many flowing, bermy natural trails.

But, I would be very frustrated, or would become a perpetuial law breaker, if mountain biking was confined to fixed trail centres, or even fixed routes.

I find it interesting that there is so much snobbery on here about trail centres lacking adventure, route finding, the sense of adventure etc [b] YET [/b]every thread about a trip abroad features a request for the best guiding company.

And most of the trails are man made........

I generally prefer trail centres to natural stuff mainly because natural is often a load of slogging through muddy fields and gates to get to one alright descent, then repeat. I don't really like rocky tech stuff either so trail centres usually offer something more my style of riding. Saying that my favourite place to ride is probably the dh stuff at Woburn which isnt really a trail centre as such! More a selection of loads of mini bike park style runs which is my favourite kind of riding

My sentiments too.

Wilderness riding to me - slogging for hours for mediocre descents

I ride to leave the ground and do bike wiggles, not pain my lungs and kid myself the view is worth it. Though occasionally when it's hot and sunny, when out with the "boys" natural riding can be better than ok.

I'm relatively new too, both to stw but to mtb'ing too. I don't think I've come across any such 'anti' trail centre type tbh. I have, however, met people who just genuinely don't care for the trail centre type of ride! I've never found a 'snobbishness' to them though 😐
I've been extremely lucky to find friendship with people who ride around the peaks a lot and don't mind me trying to hang on!! Of which i am very, very grateful because i love riding these 'natural' trails. But in addition, a recent trip to Gisburn taught me two things: 1) I prefer natural trails and 2) TC's are ideal for noobs like me to 'push' their skills a little but in a slightly more contolled/predictable manner!
It's a shame you've met such shallow people with regards to this type of riding. Like lots have said already ....different folks, different strokes!
I say go have fun! Doesn't matter where you're riding, as long as it makes you smile! 😀

[i]I quite like riding slowly. And I quite like deep mud, it’s just another trail obstacle. I enjoy the challenge of clearing a churned up section of muddy bridleway. I also much prefer riding uphill to down.[/i]

Yup

[i] I have, however, met people who just genuinely don't care for the trail centre type of ride! [/i]

Hiya! 🙂

"Natural" always makes me laugh, too. Had people talking about how great it is to ride natural trails not all that manmade stuff, on trails that I helped build... Had another chap say much the same when we were on a roman road.

Not a fan Of Trail Center's for riding! It's just marketed Mountain Biking! Create's spending for the Industry which is good! But makes something that I'm passionate about in to something that can be ridiculed by a lot of people it seems!If it keeps the sport alive? great! But it still feeds my self indulgent attitude of 'If they haven't been riding for more than 20 years on natural trails how the hell can they understand what it's all about'! But then I'm a Belligerent old ****, and it comes with the "Time served badge"!
I do forget a lot of stuff these days! Like that 'Mountain biking is also all about Acceptance and sharing'... It's usually when confronted by someone with about 3 grands worth too much of bike for a 2 hour trip around the 8 mile red route so they can have a bacon sandwich!.... but hey if it get's them off their arse and they love it? Great!
And Yep! I can be that judgmental! ... It takes a lot of hard work to be this conceited... but wtf! There's a lot of ego's that need winding in a bit out there these days, mine too sometimes! I Love great bikes, I just hate trophy bikes! some never even leave the car park! 🙁

But it still feeds my self indulgent attitude of 'If they haven't been riding for more than 20 years on natural trails how the hell can they understand what it's all about'! But then I'm a Belligerent old ****, and it comes with the "Time served badge"!

There are plenty of us at trail centres who have been riding mountain bikes for 20 + years and are "time served"

We just find it a good place to meet up with a few mates and have a ride and a laugh. Nice and easy to navigate and good fun places to ride.

some never even leave the car park!

🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

Don't understand the attitude Timax, you appear to be "against" people enjoying themselves. How odd

My favourite and most memorable rides have all been on natural trails - Lake District, Yorks Dales, NYMoors, Weardale etc. I love being away from populated areas in a wilderness type setting and trails centres are the absolute antithesis of that.

I have no problem with trail centres and ride Hamsterley a fair bit and have visited Dalby, Glentress, Whinlatter, Grizedale, Gisburn etc but I'd get bored rigid riding the same trails week in week out (which a few friends do - every Saturday or Sunday).

It does seem that some riders hatred of trail centres stems from an envy of other peoples bikes. That other people somehow don't deserve their high end bikes as they are not 'real' mountain bikers. What a crock! People can ride what they like how they like.

nickc - Member
Don't understand the attitude Timax, you appear to be "against" people enjoying themselves. How odd

Don't agree with you nickc - he's not saying that he is against people in trail centres enjoying themselves - quite the opposite - he says that its good that they're getting of their arses to ride a bike

However, I am confident that i am interpreting him correctly, when he says he isn't a fan of TCs

That's very different from saying that he is not a fan of [i]other[/i] people enjoying [i]themselves[/i] at TCs