Track tubs trying to kill me….

Wipe then with alcohol and then sand them down, the sanding makes a real difference

They defo need cleaning and sanding, as per the previous reply.

The tyres as new still have some release agent (from the moulding process to stop them.sticking in the mould) still on the surface.

It's actually something they do a check on at my local velodrome (Derby) if anyone rocks up with a new bike or when the can see  new wheels/tyres.

Don't forget around the side of the tread too - often you're not using the centre of the tyre on a velodrome.

Cleaning and sanding will make a difference

What tubs are they? Something that might have been fine for use at somewhere like Herne Hill might not be good for a steeper track like Calshot. Some tubs just aren't particularly grippy.

Yeah. That's an important thing.
Have seen people using cheap road training tubs on the track.
There's nothing you can do with those to make them grip the track. Even worse when it's been quiet for a few days and got dusty.

Though Sonderklasse are a bit excessive for day to day use...

Thanks for replies so far, sorry for delay in response

Tyres are Continental Sprinters so not super costly but reasonable reputation. If I don’t trust them I’d be loathe to by an identical pair so then I may end up stepping up to ~£100 a tub (plus all
involved in removing cleaning and cementing new tubs) hence the attempts to revive them!

Don’t think they are new tubs, but hard to tell how old/worn in they are. The seller was the owners other half so history is limited…

Will try sanding and alcohol and see how I go (biggest worry is taking down other riders, especially those of their own bikes)

Will also take some old alloy wheels with known clinchers so I can swap out in case!

If they've been left a long time they may well be covered in crap and need a good going over. Didn't realise they were second hand!
And no idea how good the current sprinters are, last time i bought them they were about 15 quid each!

UPDATE -
So it seems someone thought it cunning to use Back to Black or similar tyre shine on the tubs before selling… they looked great but super slippy.

Alcohol - no effect
Wet&dry fine sandpaper - no real effect
150grit - getting somewhere with elbow grease

So last night I sat down and gave the front tub a good going over - back to matt rubber, seems to be grippy. All good until I accidentally sanded the sidewall 🙁
Only a couple of mm, but it turns out they are quite thin. Looked at it bulge a bit for a while, then the tube burst… 😩
At least the tub came off easily.

So Veloflex Records and tub cement so to be ordered, and then 3 days of tub cementing to come!

use tape rather than cement?  MY road bike used to be on tubs and I rode it like that for many years using tape rather than cement

https://www.tufo.com/en/accessories/detail/tufo-gluing-tape-for-road-tubular-tyres/

You can’t use tape on track tubs, they’ll roll off and most, if not all indoor velodromes forbid it.

Ah.  OK

And you can’t get high on tub tape 😉

Too late for the tub you borked, but.....

I had the same problem years ago when I was riding/racing at Manchester - I used to race on the outdoor track at Newcastle and then rok up at the velodrome - I hadn't realised how much crap got on the tyres and had a few scary moments - I asked the coaches at Manchester what the best solution was - the answer was white vinegar and a very clean lintless cloth - I used to carry that in my kit bag and clean the tyres before I got on the track - worked a treat -

I have seen someone skilled fitting a tub track-side. It didn't seem all that hard - not as bad as doing tubeless.

@velocipede seriously these were ****ed.
At the track tonight and other peoples Sprinters felt completely different. Vinegar, isopropyl alcohol and fine sandpaper had made no difference…

My old Vittoria clinchers worked fine, got my confidence back but the wheels are heavy and rubbish.

So new tubs needed.

Do I go conti Sprinters £55ish (but I’m not likely to ride an outside track at all) or do I go Veloflex Record £65ish for wooden track only?

Not going to spend much more, £ per mile for this bike is getting a bit much!

@molgrips I taped some tubs in 1999, how hard can it be?

*I am not a skilled tub fitter, likely I will end up glued to the wheel

how hard can it be?

That's the spirit 🙂

This thread reminded me to check eBay and there are some 50mm planet X wheels for £200 BIN. My track bike has Mavic Open Pros on it!

@madeupname - ah ok sounds like these were pretty bad in that case!

If I was you, I’d go for the Records - simply because they’ll be faster and therefore more fun!

If I was you, I’d go for the Records – simply because they’ll be faster and therefore more fun!

This ^^
Tyres on a track bike are far and away the most important thing. Decent tyres on a basic wheelset will be vastly superior to even average tyres on carbon wheels.

When you fit them, give them the alcohol or vinegar treatment and then the first few laps ride the Cote d'Azure only.

I used to ride Manchester all the time and the difference when I finally got my own bike with good wheels and tyres over the more basic hire bike stuff was night and day.

That goes double at Calshot which is far steeper!

Tyres on a track bike are far and away the most important thing.

From a speed perspective or what? My bike has clincher wheels with decent road tyres (I forget what) and I don't have any grip issues. I am looking around for some > 50mm tubular wheels of course.

From a speed perspective or what?

From a "staying upright at the top of a 42° camber while inches away from other riders at 25mph" perspective.

Ah right. I have no problems with that on clinchers, but they are decent racey tyres.

Zipp do an excellent video on gluing tubs:

There's a lot of "leave to dry for a day" in this - I think the whole process takes 5 days - so don't go starting it the night before you set off to the track!

Speaking personally, my lad has separate wheels for indoor/outdoor use. Tubs indoor, clinchers outdoor (they tend to take a bit more abuse from debris on the track). The indoor tubs get treated very nicely, and I wipe down with IPA as required. Other riders talk about white-wine vinegar, but I only use IPA because I've got gallons of it on the shelf in the garage!

My son races crits on tubs too (there's usually cheap, very light, used carbon wheels available as they are definitely niche these days) and these are taped, but he weighs almost nothing and couldn't roll a tub if he tried. The Tufo tape is good, in my experience, but as others have pointed out, most velodromes insist on glue and noone wants to be the rider sent home for having the wrong kit at a race, so the track wheels are properly glued.

Ah right. I have no problems with that on clinchers, but they are decent racey tyres.

Yeah, I did all my track riding on clinchers. Far easier and cheaper and they were only ever used indoor.

Theoretically tubs are safer if they puncture in that a tub can be “ridden” when punctured whereas a tube will deflate immediately and you’ll be less likely to control the bike. Nearest I ever came to trying this was leaning my clinchered track bike against a rail at Newport at nearly the end of a days riding, walking away only for the rear tube to just explode - lucky escape!

There's no need to cure a glue layer for 24hrs for the tubs. This is just nonsense passed down from generation to generation so is now part of the sacred glueing ritual. You could do the whole thing in an hour if you were feeling heretical.

It is, however, essential that the finished article is left to cure for 24hr minimum, ideally 48, before riding. That step should never be skipped.

The indoor tubs get treated very nicely, and I wipe down with IPA as required.

Does a Pale Ale or Stout work in a pinch?

You could do the whole thing in an hour if you were feeling heretical.

I did three sets in a morning, 6 tubs.

I was high as **** after that.

From a “staying upright at the top of a 42° camber while inches away from other riders at 25mph” perspective.

I'd be a lot happier up at the top of the banking doing 25 rather than 15.

I’d be a lot happier up at the top of the banking doing 25 rather than 15.

It’s when you’re at the back of the line and it all concertinas, leaving you slowing hard up on the banking…

And it’s 45 degrees at Calshot 😜

Part of me would love to see how slow you can go, but that means I’d have to fall off at some point

Part of me would love to see how slow you can go, but that means I’d have to fall off at some point

I've gone slow enough to lose traction but you just slip a bit, you don't suddenly wipe out.

Yeah, i've gone a metre or so sideways down the banking before now, luckily both tyres slipped at the same time, and almost the same speed. I'd like to say it was all skill, but realistically i'd put a solid 90% of it down to blind luck...