Forum menu
Tour de France stag...
 

[Closed] Tour de France stage 18 - Briançon / Izoard - The decisive stage?

Posts: 10341
Free Member
 

Guessing the TT winner is a game of trying to remember who is still in it!


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 5:01 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Froome certainly in with a shout of a win tomorrow.

Really? I think you mean Saturday.

Barguil I'd go for possible rider of the whole race, aggressive, stage wins, a jersey and a top 10, absolute quality. Worth every penny compared to the bore fest Froome and Uran have conjured up.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 5:02 pm
Posts: 28712
Full Member
 

Worth every penny compared to the bore fest Froome and Uran have conjured up.

The what ? Really ? Have you been watching another race ?


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 5:09 pm
 igm
Posts: 11873
Full Member
 

Sir Chris Froome if he makes it?

PS that Warren laddie has been a bit good yes. And won the KoM the way it should be won - mixing it with the GC boys and riding off the front of them rather than going on a long break every day that gets hauled in before the end.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 5:14 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I really don't get the criticism of this edition of the tour or the route. has never been closer at the top


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 5:20 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I really don't get the criticism of this edition of the tour or the route. has never been closer at the top

I think that's what's led to some of the criticism and style of racing. Bigger gaps would meant riders could take bigger gambles and make bolder moves. Say if there had been a mid-race ITT of typical length (e.g. 40k). Would have been a very different GC with bigger gaps. Maybe Bardet and Aru at 2 or 3 minutes back. They would have had to go for bigger opportunities more often. Equally it would have meant Froome could risk losing a bit of time and attack further out for stage wins.

It does feel a bit like it's been put together to try and engineer a Bardet win. What's he known for? Good on the steep climbs, a great descender. What's he not so good at, ITT.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 5:34 pm
Posts: 904
Free Member
 

If the Tour had 5 HC finishes, Quintana would have skipped the Giro and won at a canter. And I'm sure everyone would have been complaining it was a borefest.

Froome won by 4 minutes last year. I think people would have given their right arm to have the top 3 within 30 seconds with only a 22k hilly TT to go...

...though given some of the crazy rolling stages so far - who knows what might happen tomorrow!!


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 5:35 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

If the Tour had 5 HC finishes, Quintana would have skipped the Giro and won at a canter.

The Giro had 6 tough summit finishes, he still lost to a TT turned GC rider.

And the Vuelta last year where he was supposedly on top form, he still didn't put enough time into Froome on the climbs to overhaul his big TT deficit and only won due to hanging on to the crazy Contador move on a short lumpy stage. I'm not surprised there's talk of Movistar ditching him.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 5:40 pm
Posts: 904
Free Member
 

With twice as much time-trialling as this Tour And probably in part due to having ridden the Tour and Vuelta last year, and knowing he was also aiming for the Tour this year.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 5:45 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

People just like to moan about the tour. It's what people do.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 5:48 pm
Posts: 7513
Free Member
 

The boring stages were the flat ones with the pre-scripted break that's reeled in just in time for a bunch sprint. The mountain stages have had quite a variety and were only boring due to Froome/Sky being too strong for everyone else (though sadly not quite strong enough to win a stage).


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 6:05 pm
 igm
Posts: 11873
Full Member
 

I do like flattish lumpy stages with cross winds.

Brittany coast, in fact anywhere from Calais to Bordeaux with plenty of coastal road please


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 6:36 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

The organisers can make it more exciting with shorter stages...but that's not really what this race is about, much as I don't like watching sky riding their wattbikes, you can't blame them as it wins them races, nice of AGR2 to give them a hand today though. I'm guessing Froome is favourite for the TT.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 6:54 pm
Posts: 11402
Free Member
 

Even with the little TT there is in this years race it's still probably going to be the deciding factor from the time Froome made in the wet opener to the final one in Marseille other than that it's been a rather dull war of attrition in the mountains and not making any mistakes on the flatter stages. Froome hasn't really been at his stellar best, doing just enough to protect his lead.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 7:02 pm
Posts: 515
Full Member
 

It does feel a bit like it's been put together to try and engineer a Bardet win.

That's unfair on Bardet. They've been trying to make sure time trials are less important since Wiggo won it on a flattish route. I think they've done a decent enough job on that but equally agree with comments above that it makes a wild gamble less likely. Next step will be to reduce team size (already happening?) and remove radios and after that ban power meters.

Completely changing it, I remember AG2R being good a few years ago and improving ever since but where did they come from? Was it another team renamed?


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 7:08 pm
Posts: 0
Full Member
 

I enjoyed watching Barguil take that. What a ride.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 7:09 pm
Posts: 11402
Free Member
 

I enjoyed watching Barguil take that. What a ride.

Will he ride for Tom Dumoulin next year like that ?


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 7:12 pm
Posts: 0
Full Member
 

Well Sunweb have an excellent squad, why not...


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 7:17 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

The problem (actually not really a problem) is that the lone attack way out has failed every time. The tempo that is going on at the head of the peloton is so high that the slow war of attrition wins in the end. If the team at the front (AG2R or Sky, even SunWeb) want to control it they can, full in the knowledge that the guys that they are riding for get the protection and then can try and when the rest of the guys have been dropped with such a high pace.

Some of this is also a product of the cleaner racing as they all know that such monster efforts cannot be sustained. It might appear boring, but it has been so tense to see how everybody fares in the final showdown. As Dan Martin said: "It will be down to who has the least worse day on the tour." I do like Dan Martin and wonder how he would have got on with a team working just for him, but with Kittel on the squad that was never going to happen.

As for tomorrow it is another 222km so it will be monstrously hard day for everybody after today and who knows if anybody will have the energy to try something?

Edit to make some sense.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 7:19 pm
Posts: 9238
Free Member
 

I think it's clear they need a few more big mountain stages now Bardet is established as a real contender. The drop to 8 riders for next year may help a little but I doubt it.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 7:19 pm
 igm
Posts: 11873
Full Member
 

Tomorrow. Mountains is settled. Green is effectively settled. Yellow and white should be neutralised.

Day for the break finally?


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 7:24 pm
Posts: 9238
Free Member
 

Nah, I reckon the GC teams won't take much of a chance. They'll keep riding hard until the end of tomorrow.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 8:10 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

GC teams (well probably just Sky) will ride for the first half to keep it under control. Sprinters teams to haul in the break on the second half - if it was just GC teams riding the break would win, but there are enough sprinters with an interest it probably won't happen. The question is whether Sunweb decide to push hard on one of the climbs to shell out some of the other sprinters, which might change the dynamic a bit.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 8:45 pm
Posts: 904
Free Member
 

The drop to 8 riders for next year may help a little but I doubt it.

Sky have effectively ridden with 8 riders anyway. 7 if you factor in that Henao has been a no-show.

IMO, the Tour route should mix it up from year to year. TTT some years. More mountain-top finishes some years. Short uphills other years. More/less ITT Kms. It's all part of the puzzle you have to solve to keep winning.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 8:50 pm
Posts: 904
Free Member
 

The question is whether Sunweb decide to push hard on one of the climbs to shell out some of the other sprinters, which might change the dynamic a bit.

I think it may depend on whether Sunweb are content with what they have out of this Tour already. I'm sure they could shell a few people tomorrow if they fancy it, but it's a long stage. Dimension Data haven't got anything yet, so they might fancy thinning things out as well to give EBH a shout. Would Matthews still be motivated to make his eyeballs bleed like he did when he was chasing green?


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 8:56 pm
Posts: 28712
Full Member
 

AG2R being good a few years ago and improving ever since but where did they come from? Was it another team renamed

Wasn't it the credit agricole squad previously?


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 8:57 pm
Posts: 9238
Free Member
 

They've been AG2R for 20 years 😛


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 9:00 pm
Posts: 9238
Free Member
 

IMO, the Tour route should mix it up from year to year.

Dr Hutch jokingly suggested a secret stage where they don't give them the route 😀


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 9:01 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Remember the old Casino team....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AG2R_La_Mondiale

Greipel and Lotto Soudal have nothing from this Tour so far. They'll fancy Paris but I'd expect them to make some effort tomorrow too. Greipel should get over those cat 3's.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 9:08 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

[quote=matts ]Would Matthews still be motivated to make his eyeballs bleed like he did when he was chasing green?

Interesting question - depends how much rivalry there is between him and Barguil now the latter has matched his number of stage wins (and though it important enough to mention in interviews 😉 ). Tomorrow would seem to give him a better chance than Sunday, as they can shell out some of the big guys.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 9:09 pm
Posts: 50252
Free Member
 

Dr Hutch jokingly suggested a secret stage where they don't give them the route

A rather excellent idea!

Give them a start location, and nothing more. Then, you could throw a TTT at them, a mountain TT, or even (And I'll love to see this!) a street circuit crit style stage.

Possibly linked to this, I'd like to see a single bike tour. No specialist TT bikes, no specialist climbing bikes. Ride the bike you start with to the finish.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 9:10 pm
Posts: 9238
Free Member
 

Red Hook is on in London this weekend CFH; fill your boots 🙂


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 9:12 pm
Posts: 50252
Free Member
 

Too many hipster****ty****puffins. 😀


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 9:15 pm
Posts: 904
Free Member
 

In the rain - that might be good for a chuckle!


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 9:38 pm
Posts: 18029
Full Member
 

Well I'm pleased I booked the day off. A thoroughly entertaining 8 hours of telly. I even felt sufficiently inspired to have a little spin on the road bike afterwards.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 10:20 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

They need a cobble stage as well, you forgot the cobbles.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 10:24 pm
Posts: 6947
Full Member
 

matts - Member
The drop to 8 riders for next year may help a little but I doubt it.
Sky have effectively ridden with 8 riders anyway. 7 if you factor in that Henao has been a no-show.

Is Henao known to be poorly or something? It's one thing for a rider to bomb out of the GC after a terrible day, but a mountain domestique to be out of legs all race seems strange.


 
Posted : 20/07/2017 10:51 pm
Posts: 52609
Free Member
 

Part of me thinks this is one of the tours that could have been, the attrition rate early on has certainly made a difference. The ITT from the get go has made things a bit stale though in the GC battle overall which puts Sky into defense mode from the start. The cricketing analogy being runs on the board are better than what you could do.
The respect yellow rules have come into play more and more which again suits Sky and their ability to control to a point, but the team seems to have had more bad days than usual unless they were saving for week 3.

I wonder how some of the early stages would have gone (like the col du chat) if Froome was not in yellow at that point, no protection, no hand waving just another guy to attack and him needing to actually do some early attacking.

Smaller teams would hurt the likes of Martin more when you have a team that is hoping for top 5 but banking on sprints.


 
Posted : 21/07/2017 1:03 am
Posts: 52609
Free Member
 

oh and this just popped up in a feed
https://www.strava.com/activities/1093149410
Quite a ride, no HR data though


 
Posted : 21/07/2017 2:07 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I thought it was a good stage. Barguil is rider of the tour for me, riding with panache and making things exciting.

While they allegedly had less summit finishes to make it harder for Sky, I actually wonder if they made it easier for them.


 
Posted : 21/07/2017 6:51 am
Posts: 6859
Free Member
 

I don't know - I think Froome looked like the strongest rider ever since that puncture. The GC were gunning, AG2R had attacked and were pushing hard and Froome managed (with support) to take 50s out of everyone else on that climb. Obviously that didn't add to his lead but it proved the point. He's been tested on the climbs and passed and I'm sure he'd have coped with another few summit finishes.

Since then he hasn't really been tested. He's done enough at every step - in fact at this stage he'd be in with a good shout if he were 30s [i]down[/i] on GC (with a chance of winning a TT with bonus points), but he's 30s up and looking good.

I don't think either Bardet or Uran had any bad luck / mechanicals did they?


 
Posted : 21/07/2017 7:09 am
Posts: 186
Full Member
 

I don't think either Bardet or Uran had any bad luck / mechanicals did they?

Apart from Uran managing to win a stage on a singlespeed? That was bloody impressive!


 
Posted : 21/07/2017 7:47 am
 igm
Posts: 11873
Full Member
 

Singlespeed - always in the correct gear 😉


 
Posted : 21/07/2017 8:47 am
Posts: 9238
Free Member
 

I thought it was a good stage. Barguil is rider of the tour for me, riding with panache and making things exciting.

It's a shame that stage 5 and stage 8n went so badly for him in some respects. It would have been interesting to see what he could have done in the GC. That said, he'd never have been allowed that freedom if he'd been a few mins off the lead so we'd never have seen those rides.


 
Posted : 21/07/2017 8:55 am
Posts: 18029
Full Member
 

That said, he'd never have been allowed that freedom if he'd been a few mins off the lead so we'd never have seen those rides

He won't be next year.


 
Posted : 21/07/2017 8:59 am
Page 5 / 6