Morning all,
As the peloton takes a rest we are able to reflect on the first week.
Who are the surprises, and who are the disappointments?
What's been good, bad or unexpected about the event so far?
And who will finish on the GC podium (we know Pogacar will win, right?)?
Wetter than an otter’s pocket.
It’s a mug’s game picking the top three GC in Paris this soon in. Think how much names and times moved around yesterday alone. Lots of hideously hard racing to come…
Although it's been an exciting race with lots of action I can't help feeling a bit disappointed that Pogacar doesn't really have any opposition after only the first week.
I was also hoping that Gerraint would do better but then he suffered a terrible injury and the fact he's even still in the race is incredible.
I'd like to see more attacks by the big names for the remainder of the race. Maybe a stage win for Yates?
The weather this year in the TDF has been horrible and not the normal beautiful sunny days that I'm used to seeing. It does add a fair bit of unpredictability but I really don't like seeing crashes.
Who are the surprises, and who are the disappointments?
Well the second part of that is easy to answer.
Ineos. Came in with probably one of the strongest teams ever - multiple Tour winners, stage winners, a former World Champion... And they've done what? Crash (OK, some of that is unlucky but the fact that it ALWAYS happens to G is not just bad luck), not really ridden as a team, not got the strength in depth that the palmares would suggest...
At this rate, they won't even make podium which would be a PR disaster.
The French scenery has been stunning as always, even in the rain the Alps manages to look amazing.
Cav has done brilliantly - a massive two fingers up to all his critics from the past couple of years, a decent chance of green in Paris if he can hang on through the Pyrenees. He's got another sprint stage tomorrow and less competition now that Demare, Merlier, MvdP and a few others have gone home. Jasper Phillips might still be a threat except he's lost most of the Alpecin-Fenix lead out train. Colbrelli is a definite danger - a sprinter who can climb and therefore get the intermediate points.
Was really pleased to see Ben O'Connor's great ride, hoping he can stay in contention for the podium. After his stage win in last years giro, I put a bet on him to win the Tour at 500 to 1 odds. Wish I'd put more on than 50p each way now 🤦♂️
I am expecting to see we some interesting attacking rides by those now out of the GC battle who will now be aiming for the Olympics, as they try to improve their form.
I agree that overall Ineos have been a bit of a damp squib, but Richard Carapaz is by far my favourite GC rider so far this year. He's just kept on having a go despite being up against an angry team (Movistar) and an actual superhero (Pog).
Quintana has been having a good go as well - if you're not a Nairo fan then try following @nairoingreen on twitter and you'll become a Nairo fan.
As for the GC battle, it's rarely the most interesting part of any Grand Tour (although we've been a bit spoiled in the last couple of years). All the hundreds of other stories that follow in the wake of the race are where the good stuff is for me so I'm not too bothered about Pog storming off ahead.
Ineos since Portal tragically passed away seem to lack a bit of something. Maybe it's just that they aren't held in so much high esteem by rivals. Pog can lose if 1. he bins it or 2. someone does an O'Connor/Froome and tries a long range attack and his team aren't able to control it. UAE have got 2 looong weeks ahead as the time gap will encourage good riders (not just no-hopers and jersey hunters) to get in the breaks. Pog does seem very good at following rivals wheels and not being so reliant on his team. At this stage he looks unbeatable but a bit more bad weather, transfers and another mountain range and it could be different. It ain't over yet.
I'm disappointed that Ineos chased O'Connor, they acted like they were riding for UAE, AG2R in yellow on the rest day would have been a great reward for the rider and sponsors
Hopefully more long range attacks from the top 20 riders will happen to disrupt Pogacarand the Ineos bunch engine
Cav, well it's brilliant, delighted for him, fingers crossed on every mountain stage
Yates, hopefully a stage to come
Slightly worried that riders and whole teams are potentially unbelievable
Nagging feeling that we are going to see negative racing as someone defends eighth place, seventh place, etc etc
Cav has been a surprise, no question, possibly to himself. Yesterday coming in under the limit showed real class. I think he'll hold Green and this will be his biggest win. You may not recall, that when he won last time the jersey competition was knobbled slightly to remove intermediate sprints - Prudhomme basically said that it could not be fair that the tour's greatest sprinter could not win the Green jersey. So they fixed that. If he wins with intermediate points as well, and he has a team that will now be going for it, then this will be for me his big achievement.
And crashes. Sad to see Rog out and G hanging on. Pog has not surprised, but the others have. For some nostalgia, I'd like to see Richie Porte up there, and Yates with a stage win.
Nagging feeling that we are going to see negative racing as someone defends eighth place, seventh place, etc etc
Podium is a podium, I think we'll see some battles yet.
Pogacar's glance back over his shoulder at Carapaz as he left the GC bunch for dead yesterday reminded me of someone!
There is a lot of racing to go but I can't see him being beaten unless he falls off.
But the individual stage racing has been fascinating. Cav winning sprints and amazing rides from Ben O'Connor and Teuns and Mohoric. More days like those and I'm not sure I'll care what happens in GC
I'm missing my daily dose of TdF!
Feels weird it not being on in the background.
Cav the highlight for me so far.
Pog has been fab but I can’t help thinking it’s too early to call it done and something big might swing it back toward the chasing GC’s.
Ineos have been the surprise fail.
I'm going to put Jumbo Visma up with Ineos as being disappointing, same issues with crashes and the like, but still not really seeming to do very much. WvA was electric last year but has seemed blunted so far, Vingegaard is placing ok but hasn't done anything. For the team pushing to be the next big thing they aren't tearing any trees up.
Ineos are poor. It's not so much that Ineos aren't achieving but the riders all look so unprepared and unable to adapt to the racing in front of them.
Also disappointed in the small french teams, where are the crazy frenchies trying for a vainglorious attack up the road from a team that you've not heard of before?
Bahrain Victorious and Alpecin Fenix have been real positives, animating the racing and have been rewarded by taking stage wins. And Cav obvs.
Pogacar’s glance back over his shoulder at Carapaz as he left the GC bunch for dead yesterday reminded me of someone!
Looked to me a bit more like figuring out what was going on behind, rather than a dead in the eyes 'I'm going to destroy you now' sort of challenge. Pogacar seems to be having far more fun than a certain other "winner" ever did.
The highlight for me was MVDP's double attack to nab yellow. I didn't think it was possible to be a bigger fan of the man but here we are. And of course Cav's sprint wins - I hope he can hold it until Paris.
Disappointments: the GC battle by the end of the week. Though it has been amusing to hear commentators say 'we haven't seen anything like this since, er...' * frantically searches back through history to find a clean rider * 'Eddy Merckx'. (Also, a poor comparison and tested positive.)
Also disappointed in the small french teams, where are the crazy frenchies trying for a vainglorious attack up the road from a team that you’ve not heard of before?
Yes, very disappointed in Intermarche Wanty Gobert, B&B Hotels etc, but they maybe waiting for the second week when everyone is more tired
The weather and the course plan didn't suit the smaller teams in the first week, but as BnD says the next week or two will possibly see wanty et al. Although if the other teams are racing for 2nd and third they may be more risky rather than defending top spot so who knows.
I’m disappointed that Ineos chased O’Connor, they acted like they were riding for UAE, AG2R in yellow on the rest day would have been a great reward for the rider and sponsors
Carapaz wanted to gain time on his rivals in the group, it is a race after all.
Carapaz wanted to gain time on his rivals in the group, it is a race after all.
Racing for the minor places......
Highlights from week 1 on ITV4 now.
Racing for the minor places……
A podium at a grand tour is hardly a minor place. Would you prefer everyone pull out now and give up? No fan of INEOS but at least they are trying
What I find almost destroys the performance of pogacars superb results is the fact that he just never looks like he's even trying.
Drop the entire peloton, go past the best climbers in the world like they are standing still, do it again and again - but he finishes the stage happy and easy and pushing his bike off - whereas his competitors are all broken men at the finish line.
It's ice cold and freezing rain - everyone is losing the feeling in their hands, fumbling the brakes, struggling kit on and off - he just taps away in a jersey and shorts without flinching.
It's inhuman. And so I have no empathy for him. I'm not pointing the obvious finger, but I am surprised that it hasn't been pointed by people that have been quick to do so in the past.
That's of course apart from the systemic institutional doping in Slovenian youth sports, UAE having multiple doping whoopsies in the last few years, and him getting the cold shoulder from most of the peloton for some strange unexplained reason.
but I am surprised that it hasn’t been pointed by people that have been quick to do so in the past.
The Clinic is here... https://forum.cyclingnews.com/forums/the-clinic.20/
Pog
https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/tadej-pogacar-and-mauro-giannetti.36206/page-55
It's an entertainment business for sure. Your glamorous movie actresses get a little help. They're not as beautiful as they appear on screen or in magazines. A bit of make up, hair and styling all go to create an illusion ... and it's one that is gladly swallowed whole (because it's better than looking at her with no make up, first thing in the morning with "just been shagged" hair). Our heroes in the saddle probably all benefit from a bit of "lippy" and some judicious use of hair products ... we can all allow that. After all, we aren't sheet sniffers, looking for purity, surely. Pogacar's problem is that he went full duck lips, 48 DD breasts and Dolly Parton wig.
😀
That is an incredible way of putting it.
Just watching the tour rest day programme, carapaz said that pog is on another plane but compared with the normal humans he (carapaz) is happy.
Or are we reading too much into it?
Whilst, assuming he's clean, Pogacar deserves to win I can't help but think what a crazy TdF we'd have if he had to pull out this week. You'd have Ineos and Movistar at each other's throats, Astana doing mad stuff (attacking on wet descents etc.) and a host of smaller teams thinking they have a realistic shot at a good GC place and not wanting to follow anyone else's script. Or ofc it could just be a catalyst for Ineos to sort themselves out and lock down the race into a snorefest with Carapaz winning.
Deliberately keeping non-racing chat to the rest day thread.
And so I have no empathy for him. I’m not pointing the obvious finger, but I am surprised that it hasn’t been pointed by people that have been quick to do so in the past.
It doesn't take too much effort to find a few voices asking is his performance is "not normal".
Carapaz said that pog is on another plane but compared with the normal humans he (carapaz) is happy.
Or are we reading too much into it?
No, no we're not...
Whilst, assuming he’s clean
That's a very big assumption in my eyes...
Did you see he reeled out the "I've never tested positive" line this week?
Its the manner in which he did it that makes it a bit suspect, he just didnt seem that gassed at the end of either stage and his riding didn't obviously exhibit it being a big effort from what you could see on the TV. It kind of reminded me of Femke van der dreishe (sp?) and her mechanically doped attack on the Koppenburg. Not that I think that would be possible in the tdf.
I can’t help but think what a crazy TdF we’d have if he had to pull out this week. You’d have Ineos and Movistar at each other’s throats, Astana doing mad stuff
Any excuse.....
Funny how some think Pogacar's performance are not normal and a bit suspect, and think he must be doping. Yet when Van der Poel attacks and makes everyone else look like amatures everyone is full of praise and admiration for his ability and don't seem to question his performances.
MvdP has done that since he started , all through the various age categories. It has not come out of the blue after a mediocre junior career.
and MvDP does an explosive effort for a relatively short time, he doesn;t do it up a 17km climb...
MvDP also run outs of gas from time to time (and looks like he's at death's door after most wins), he is often operating at the bounds of credibility for someone his size though. I really hope all the current generation of superstars are clean as exceptional performances are always the most entertaining to watch - but it wouldn't surprise me if there were a few bad eggs discovered over the next few years.
MvDP looked absolutely broken at the end of the first proper mountain stage where he was trying to defend yellow, he at least seems human.
Remember Bernhard Kohl from Gerolsteiner team coming 3rd in the 2008 tour? He looked absolutely broken on one of the summit finishes, so much so he needed to be treated with oxygen. And there were comments at the time that it was good he looked human. But it turns out he was doped up to the eyeballs.
I'd really like to think that all riders are dope free now, but from what's gone before I just doubt it.
I'm pretty sure MvDP has previously said he can't do altitude or long climbs well, this was with reference to the MTB WC in Andorra I think.
I can suspend my disbelief for MvDP because we've seen him smashing cx from junior level up for the best part of a decade and because he has reasonable cycling genes by anyone's standard.