[Closed] Titanium Road Bikes

what's your definition of 'better'?

do you mean lighter, stronger, stiffer, longer-lasting? broadly speaking there's no such thing as 'better' when choosing between steel and ti as either can be built according to how you want them to ride using different sized and shaped tubes, although frame angles, wheels and tyres can also have a great influence

what JoB said - although my "cheap" Ti airborne sortofacross bike has a bloody lovely ride,  even with road wheels & tyres on it.  Always a pleasure to get on it

(I imagine it's a teeny bit slacker than a proper road bike, maybe it's that)

Lighter and with a similar ride to steel is my definition of better in this instance.

Totally agree geometry, wheels and tyres play a major role. I’m just wondering about the benefits of Ti (Beyond what I read on the frame builders sites).

Laterally stiff AND vertically compliant?

Lighter and with a similar ride to steel is my definition of better in this instance.

Eh? Sounds like you don't have a clue what you're on about, in which case Titanium will be right up your street. Make sure you buy some matching Rapha aswell.

All the best frame builders use steel.

Buy a carbon bike as they're the best.

Lighter and with a similar ride to what sort of steel, and using what titanium?

the only really tangible way that titanium is 'better' than steel is that it's more resilient at resisting knocks and dents, and a naked ti frame will scrub up to look like new for years to come, steel is 'better' in that it's easier to mend, so much of the rest depends on the variables of tubing used and the geometry, the difference in weight between good steel and good ti are pretty minimal

if you want a bike to ride like a steel bike, get a steel bike, if you want a frame material that somehow bridges the gap of both good steel and good titanium (all variables considered) then maybe have a look at stainless

Davidtaylforth - thanks.

JoB - Thanks for taking the time to reply, so in real world terms (beyond dents etc) Ti isn’t going to give me any benefit over steel.

So far my only experience of steel is with an 853 All City Nature Boy and my Cotic Soul 853 -both have a nice feel to me.

Looks like I’ll be going back to the Casati Espresso RS. (Columbus Spirit).

you won't be disappointed with Columbus Spirit, it's a lovely steel to make a bike from (i rode one for quite a few years, made by the man who is now Reilly Cycleworks when he was at Enigma)

i feel i should point out that there are plenty of UK framebuilders that will build you a nice Columbus Spirit frameset

I have / have owned road bike frames made from steel, titanium, carbon and alloy over the years.  Modern, oversize steel can be quite 'zingy' and fearsomely stiff - great if you're riding nice, smooth tarmac but less so for a lighter rider on rougher roads. Titanium does a better job of taking out the 'buzz' and you do lose a little of directness, but it does help on longer rides. What I do like about titanium is it's durability / timelessness - regardless of how much cossetting you do if you travel and race with your bike, paint finishes do tend to show their age after a few years.

Depends. Not all Ti frames are built equal, not all Steel frames are built equal, not all Alloy frames are built equal, not all carbon frames are built equal. Some steel frames will be better than Ti, some Ti frames will be better that Alloy and some Alloy frames will be better than carbon and all possible permutations of the above. All depends on the specification the frame is built to, what spec of material is used, the method of construction, are the frame tubes treated or butted, how has the designer managed the stresses within the frame?

But yes, if there were a national referendum on the topic asking "Is Ti better than Steel", then I'm sure 51.9% of those polled would vote yes. The reality is not quite so simple. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's not.

Wow, Casati?! Definitely get an Italian bike. I think Tommasini make a nice disc bike from Spirit.

Ti is the ultimate and will last a lifetime. It is soooo boring though. It'd make sense if it was cheap, but it's not! Who wants to drop £3k on a frame that looks like Manchester United's 1996 away kit?

Evening, I work for Enigma and as you probably know we make titanium, steel and stainless frames (including spirit tubing as mentioned above) here in the UK.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">If you call the office next week or email me on sales@enigmabikes.com I'll happily explain the benefits and differences of each material we use. You're also welcome to visit the factory for a tour/test ride/fitting. I'd right a lengthy reply on the different materials now but I'm already in bed! Cheers, Rich </span>

Geometry = handling

Tube diameter = stiffness

Material = weight

Titanium frames ride like steel because of the tube diameters, but are lighter. I like them and have had two. Modern steels have achieved the lighter bit, at the expense of thinner but larger diameter tubes, hence they ride stiffer. But my SL Carbon bikes are better bikes to ride, even though most of my riding is on a steel fixed wheel, with perfect geometry.

Off out on the Ti cross bike tomorrow, it's a nice build on a frame I bought used for £300. Lighter than steel, but same ride.

Don't over-think it, I loved my Merlin Cyrene, it was a work of art that was a pleasure to ride, but there is nothing magical. It all comes down to the above three maxims.

BTW, Enigma don't weld their Ti, but their steel bikes are excellent. Burls will make you something custom (also at contract), but there are few actual builders in Ti. I'd avoid some of the cheaper options without pedigree. In fact, I'd probably just go for steel now.

Thanks chaps, much appreciated.

what I’d like to do is test rude the bikes but being custom / sold to order it doesn’t make the process easy.

Ive been looking at geometry charts (for the built to order off the peg Enigmas - Evoke and Excel) and. Omparing them to my current carbon Cube which fits me well. The Casati is custom so made to measure. (Enigma do an Elite Disc in Spirit tube that looks pretty good too)

Hard choices really - as for me it’s a lot of money to drop and I don’t want to make a mistake.

Mountain bikes are much easier!

BTW, Enigma don’t weld their Ti, but their steel bikes are excellent.

Then you need to contact trading standards as they clearly claim the Signature range of ti bikes are made in their Sussex workshop.

Geometry is the single most important factor. A slow handling bike will feel sluggish, regardless of weight and stiffness. If you've found a geometry you like, stick with it!

73 degree parallel and 56.5 effective top tube for me. That's standard average road bike for the past 30 years or more.

EDIT and apologies to Enigma, I was going on when I was planning on ordering one a few years ago.

davidtalyforth does, aside his obvious and I find generally amusing windups often make some very good points and I'd agree with him in that as nice as a ti bike might be if I didn't have it painted I'd feel I'd spent a small fortune and still been beaten 6-3 by Southampton. I mean imagine coming out after a cafe stop and not actually being able to pick out your grey bike amongst all the other grey bikes.*

This will only make sense if you have a passing interest in football

apologies to Enigma

You have to look carefully as only the signature series of bikes are actually made by them, you are right in that some of the frames are outsourced.

Duner - Thanks I will email over the weekend with some questions and arrange a visit.

davidtaylforth

Eh? Sounds like you don’t have a clue what you’re on about, in which case Titanium will be right up your street. Make sure you buy some matching Rapha aswell.

All the best frame builders use steel.

Buy a carbon bike as they’re the best.

Wow, most unhelpful and needlessly hostile reply of the year thus far? (Barring the referendum thread.)

Nah, just DT on form. Three classic sentences that are often trotted out and make perfect sense on their own but in the same post mock each other well. Applauds DT 😁

Wow, most unhelpful and needlessly hostile reply of the year thus far? (Barring the referendum thread.)

Alright, keep your hair on. I feel my reply was justified as the OPs post was nonsensical.

Just being cruel to be kind really, the OP sounds like he's struggling a bit and if he gets too carried away he'll end up spending three grand on a frame he doesn't really like.

Like, if I was spending that much, I'd know exactly what I wanted. Or at least I hope I would. As the answer would jump out of instagram or facebook aor STW and I'd know I'd found what I wanted to spend so much money on. You know, like god that bike looks so absolutely awesome, I need one of those, that is literactually the best bike I've ever seen.

But just going round and round in circles and asking on forums hoping that other people can tell you what you should spend your money on, I dunno, for me that wouldn't be the answer to a bike I'd be happy with.

A Titanium bike, I would deffo have one and if I lived in London and earned ten times the national average then I'd buy one and leave it in the shed because it wouldn't matter. But if I was going to spend twenty or thirty percent of my gross pay then it'd better look mint.

Sounds like the OP is in a similar position (i.e. it's a shit ton of cash) but he doesn't really know what he wants, just that he want's a bike made from steel (or maybe Ti) that's expensive. I would say it's better to have more of a reason than that to spend all that money on one.

Personally I would buy an off the shelf alloy or carbon bike for best bang for buck and performance. More likely to enjoy it for what it is (a bike, not an art piece) and hence get more use out of it.

I have an Enigma and can highy recommend them. I had a carbon Bianchi which got stolen and I fancied something different. I spoke to Jim and he let me test ride a bike and the rest is history. I would definitely buy another.

Carbon is a very versatile material and I have a carbon Ribble with full mudguards I ride in the winter. Titanium can ride beautifully and it’s much a nicer ride than my Bianchi or Ribble.

But if I was going to spend twenty or thirty percent of my gross pay then it’d better look mint.

just get any off the peg frame and send it to one of the custom painters for a snazzy blow over.

only I thought it was about the ride? Or is it to just to post pics of on forums for post purchase affirmation and the plaudits from your peers?

personally I wouldn’t entertain Ti unless I had the budget for a fully butted Rewel/nevi/legend/crisp or similar, a plain gauge 'budget' frame doesn’t interest me in the slightest.

As for 'bike for life' I thought we killed that myth ages ago? Titanium repairs are not always successful and they seem to crack more than any other material (ime)

my pegoretti cracked after 13 years of use, back to Italy for a repair and a fancy paint job, I would like to think I’ll get another 10 out it.

just get the Casati and stop dithering, any doubts you have will disappear once you swing a leg over it.

FWIW butting titanium tubes makes very little difference - only ~100g per tubeset - far better that attention is made to places like headtube, BB and drop-outs where more serious lumps of weight can be removed. If you're into the lightest bike possible, best avoid titanium - some of the weight-weenie attempts like the Litespeed Ghisallo were notoriously 'noodly' - better off with carbon.

Lighter and with a similar ride to steel is my definition of better in this instance.

Yes, sort of. But it all depends on how it's built. Something like Lynskey's Pro frame with the weird twisted tubing is supposed to be pretty stiff.

More importantly, I think it's fair to say that the current incarnation of David Trollfroth has peaked in a late-Wenger, Arsenal sort of way. Whenever he posts I get a little twinge of sadness for the older, more entertaining version. Bring back the real Trollfroth 🙁

Thanks again for your replies and views chaps.

Davidtaylforth - I have to say you’ve pretty much summed up the (my) situation in your post - I’m stumbling around like a one eyed fool.

Titanium! What am I thinking? This came from Google, realistically it’s not for me.

Steel -maybe I’m romanticising my riding? I have a steel Cotic which I like, I had a steel Nature Boy that I didn’t.

Carbon - I have a low end carbon Cube with Ultegra and Fizik finishing kit (crap Mavic wheels) and apart from the head set compression ring coming lose on a semi-regular basis its a great bike (for me).

I want a new ‘nice bike’ I’m 50this year and I thought ‘bike for life’ but at 50 what does a bike for life actually mean??? I thought I must get steel (or Ti) but do I?

The only bike I’ve seen that makes my trousers twitch has been then Donhou DSS1 but the geometry isn’t great for me in off the peg form. The Enigma Elite Disc also gives me stirrings and both these bikes can be ‘custome’ For £300 more.

BUT

The Casati has the Italian pedigree, the full custom fit and the very nice internal routing.

Then we are back to best bang for my buck, in reality that would be a Di2 Giant Defy and would probably tick every box that I need in a bike - apart from that ‘oh it’s not a bike for life’ tag.

So who knows??!!

What are you riding currently? What do you like about it, and what don't you like about it?

I think a lot of high end bike purchases are driven either by - as DTF says - an overwhelming desire for a particular bike, or dissatisfaction with one or more aspects of whatever people are currently riding, e.g. poor fit, too harsh a ride/not comfortable enough, not light enough, won't take wide enough tyres etc. etc.

It does sound rather like you don't actually want a particular bike, so much as feel that you should get a bike to mark your 50th. If you don't really know what you want, then I would suggest you just keep riding and keep looking until you do have a very clear idea of what you want.

Any views/experiences on Indy Fab Ti road bikes? I had an idle browse after reading this thread - I always wanted an Indy Fab MTB years ago, but I'm more roadie now. Any good? Made in house? Worth considering vs some of the Italian places?

I have had similar geo Mtb's in Ti and Columbus Life. Liked them both but probably preferred the steel bike which was coincidentally an Enigma. Ti scrubbed up well but thats less of an issue on the road.

Ultimate handling roadbike will be made of carbon.

Ultimate looking road bike for a 50 year old mamil will be made of an exotic steel 😉

If you don't know what you want go on a great holiday instead.

for my 40th i treated myself to that custom Columbus steel road bike i mentioned, was a lovely thing, rode the crap out of it everywhere, lots of great memories

for my 50th i treated myself to a ride across Europe on an off-the-shelf titanium frame, less of a lovely thing - more of a tool for the job, rode the crap out of myself, lots of great memories

the frame material has been largely irrelevant 🙂

I would buy a C64 personally....

Just try before you buy. Only then can you decide which material is for you. Personally, I like steel but really it comes as much down to the design and builder. Take a bit of time to think about the riding you do and plan to do. Are you racing or does comfort matter more than head down speed?

Talk to a framebuilder and get their thoughts. Remember, it's meant to be fun!😉