[Closed] Titanium HT

Ted

James

Designs

TJD FTW!
Local to me and I wish I could afford it after seeing his stuff at various Bespoked shows.

Seven Cycles (based on a personal bias!).

I have owned both and would go Seven over Moots for a few reasons:

1) Custom geometry is included. Whilst you might not want or need tweaks to geometry, the ability to tailor stop positions etc is useful. At that price it is nice to have something uniquely yours.

2) Particularly for a mountain bike, the brushed finish on a Seven is so much easier to live with than the bead blasted finish on a Moots. You can buff it up like new, whereas the Moots looks tatty after a while.

3) Seven’s tube manipulation and butting is more sophisticated than Moots who use straight gauge on the Womble (you only get butting on the RSL models).

4) Price. Yes, I know neither are exactly cheap, but A Seven is better ‘value’.

Moots are lovely but on balance I would go Seven, and have done so several times myself.

Since Saddleback took on Moots they have done a great marketing job, and Seven have definitely fallen behind in that respect, but the product and support is outstanding.

Buying a plain gauge Ti frame is pointless… you’d be better off with a (top end) steel one. In my opinion. If splashing the money on Ti, get butted.

Brushed does age better than blasted or polished (mine is blasted for that reason) but the Moots do look “so” nice with their finish when new. I’d be tempted. Who cares if your bike looks aged in 10 years time, really?

@kelvin if there was a titanium solaris I'd be all over it ......

I’m pushing for another SodaMAX for 2022 or ‘23, but they end up so expensive these days… others are unsure if there would be enough people looking to buy one to justify it.

Along as its cheaper than a moots I'm in, take my money.

Careful, I bought a ti hardtail and it was great till the “standards” in brakes, hubs, fork steerers etc all changed and I’m now left with an ornament hanging in my garage rafters. Bike for life sounds good till you realise you probably won’t want the same bike for ever. Get a nice bike ride it to death and move on in a couple of years! Ti is lovely all the same.

You can still get all the kit to build up and keep riding any age of Ti frame… but it’s the geometry that’s the killer. Bike geometry has improved so much in recent years. Will similar big improvements come in the next 10 years, or is it about refining now? Place your bets now… (I think the later, but no one really can say for sure). This risk does change the ‘value’ proposition of any very expensive frame though.

+1 for TJD

If budget and waiting time doesn't matter than really id say it depends on the riding style/the interaction you want with the builder/& the builders style of bike.

Try to find one that fits with all three.

@kelvin - I'd have thought cotic'd easily flog another round of Sodas?

I got the last XL frame about a week after they were announced. I know it was small numbers (and there's no complaint abput cost here) but Si must have made a bomb on them.

Still ride it more than my mk3 nomad. 🙂

Agreed: they sold out so quick there are plenty of us who would love one. Interested to know how much lighter it is than a standard solaris max (currently loving my sparkly orange one...)

Just put mine in the classifieds.

Turner have a new one.

Got my order in.

Kingdom Vendetta or Titus Loco Moto?

Kingdom Ti,

I have a RSD Middlechild Ti. It’s ace.
Set up single speed at the moment with a 150mm Lyrik Ultimate.
https://rsdbikes.com/middlechild-v2-titanium/

Interested to know how much lighter it is than a standard solaris max

Less than a pound iirc, but happy to be corrected! Nearly bought a Soda Max 2 year's ago whist waiting for the Solaris Max shipment to arrive, would have cost me an extra £1k for the weight saving so couldn't bring myself to buy one in the end. Still loving the Solaris Max and I'm not saying I couldn't be tempted by Ti in the future though.

J Laverack have a lovely hardtail, saw it yesterday when looking at road bikes

Travers.
Wish I could justify a Seven.

TJD or Seven

Kingdom not even in the same league

I've had two. First was a Rock Lobster Ti hardtail whixh I absolutely loved and kept for about 12 years, the other was a Setavento(?) I bought off ebay, which just happened to be exactly the right size I needed.
The Rock Lobster was hard as nails, survived a head on crash with a tree which left me with a 7" scar on my inside thigh. Not a scratch.
The Setavento was a road bike. I was riding down a reasonably well surfaced cycletrack when I hit a small stone. Resulted in every
weld attached to the seat tube cracking and failing. Pushed it home, stripped it and launched it in the skip.
Not all Ti frames are equal.

Careful, I bought a ti hardtail and it was great till the “standards” in brakes, hubs, fork steerers etc all changed and I’m now left with an ornament hanging in my garage rafters.

This was always my worry. Toyed with the idea of getting a ti frame made based on the DB Alpine. Glad I didn't as standards, wheel sizes, geometry all changed quite quickly thereafter.

Scratched the ti itch with a CGR ti.

Mtb geometry has stabilised to the point where it would not put me off a ti hardtail.

44mm headtube, English threaded BB (or T47 if you are feeling brave!), Long, low, slack geometry. I actually went for flat mount on the rear brake because I took a punt that MTB will head that way, and for the moment you can use an adapter.

Otherwise, if you wait for the next 'standard', you'll never make the plunge.

In any case, a decent Ti hardtail is still cheaper than the latest and greatest full susser and almost certain to have greater longevity.

Nobody has mentioned a St Anton? They do the Switch9er, Switchback, Sherpa and Slackline in Ti.

Lynskey?

There's a lovely Litespeed softtail on eBay.com that's been in my watch list for a while

Very happy with my Lnyskey Summit but that's a ti full susser....Mmmm ti.....

Thanks for the help gents, several options there I didnt know about. Another couple of options that appeared through my searches are Why Cycles and Sage, both in the USA though.

https://binghambuiltbikes.com/

Best titanium welder on the planet.

Check out his instagram.

Why Cycles are available in the U.K. via Cyclorise

With my sensible head on I'd be looking at a Travers. If money were no object a Seven.
I currently have a Salsa El Mariachi Ti which I really like and am very attached to, it will go on the wall once it eventually gives up the ghost.

You can still get all the kit to build up and keep riding any age of Ti frame… but it’s the geometry that’s the killer. Bike geometry has improved so much in recent years. Will similar big improvements come in the next 10 years, or is it about refining now?

Eh. I have a Cotic Soda; it's got 26" wheels, 3x9, and a RS Revelation up front. It rode well when I first bought it and still does now - I still ride the same kind of stuff, so not that much has changed.
My biggest worry would probably be if the forks carked it as I'm not sure about the availability of 26" wheel, 1.25" straight steerer forks. Otherwise it's all good.

I went full custom in 2009 and bought a Kent Eriksen, for whom Brad Bingham mentioned above was working at the time. Kent had at the time been cleaning up at the NAHBS and would continue to do so for numerous years later. I thought it was a good investment. 26" wheels, BB30 and built around a Cove Hummer. Was good for a while. Then tapered headtubes, differing wheel sizes and changes to geometry soon highlighted my mistake. A few years later a steel Chromag Samurai 65 replaced it and another few years after that I bought a Stanton Switch9er. Both bikes were better than their predecessors. My opinion was that a good quality steel frame would hurt less when it became obselete and perform near as good as any titanium frame plus a good steel frame is always going to be better than a mediocre titanium one. For the most part I've been right but I like others believe we're near the peak of development in hardtail frame geometry and so lo and behold I'm looking at Ti frames again. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't go buying a titanium frame around £1500 because you can then spend more on the build. If that's the case get a steel frame. However if the Moots Womble is definitely the level of quality you're after then have a look at English bikes, Bingham Built, Steve Potts, Firefly, DeKerf and all the usual suspects that exhibit at the NAHBS.

Tend to agree with Haggis.

Don't buy Ti as a 'bike for life'. Whilst the material might last the test of time (if it's well built), the design almost certainly won't. Buy Ti over steel because you prefer the builder, the design, the slight weight saving, the ride quality, the ease of maintenance, the finish etc.

Ti is a more expensive option to steel because of all of the above, not because it is somehow immune to changes in design and 'standards'. Having said that, those 'standards' do seem to be stabilising a bit right now, so you might get more out of a frameset than if you might have gone for a 26 inch wheeled olds school geometry, non-Boost, 1, 1/8 headtube Ti frame maybe 10 years ago.

Ti is a wonderful material for a bike frame in the right hands. If you can afford it, why not? If you have to make huge compromises elsewhere to afford it, a decent steel frame will give you much of the same (and in some respects a little more besides in terms of ease of manufacture and repair) for less. I am a self confessed Ti fanboy, but I am not entirely blind to the drawbacks (the main one being cost).