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Glenp - 10% is a lot in time trialling. The difference between 25 minutes and 27.5 minuts is big.
And yes you can do a lot by changing tyres and whatnot.. but you still won't be competitive and you'll lose out to people who aren't as fit as you.
Didn't say 10% wasn't a lot. I said the difference was way smaller than picking your way down a DH course on an XC race bike.
Plus, as lots of people have already said, most people want to challenge [i]themselves[/i]. On the flip side of what you're saying is the question of how can you be satisfied that you went out and bought faster equipment than someone else? What is this, competitive shopping?
Plus, as lots of people have already said, most people want to challenge themselves
Well fine - but why turn up to an event? Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!
Well fine - but why turn up to an event? Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!
Because its not a under race conditions ?
Well, ok. Still think what you're saying would only make sense if everyone had identical equipment. Provided the mtb is roughly in the ball-park then the rider is likely to beat at least some riders on regular road bikes, and indeed poorly set-up TT bikes. Which would be fun.
competitive shopping - you are talking about triathlon now!
The problem I always had with the testing yourself method was there were so many parameters. When you get half good the differences between a float ride and a total mare can be a handful of seconds. There is little point in judging a ride on one course with a ride on another but even a ride on the same course will vary between if it was raining (some rain good, lots bad), if it was windy & if so in what direction, how much traffic there was (traffic is good in the f*cked world of TT) and how much training had I done in the week previously. Then when you factor in the latest widget on your bike or a slight change in your position and its impossible to really know for certain if it was you or another factor that made you faster/slower than last time.
In the end for most, no matter how much you don't want it to be, it's a competition against others, even if you are just ranking your performance by those you beat and those who beat you. And yes, buying speed does become a factor too. Mind you there is nothing cooler that catching your minute man with him on a disc and no better excuse for your mediocrity that blaming your kit.
Oh, and in some races 10% might see you go from first to last and at high speeds you might have to nearly double your power output to increase your speed by 10%.
I did the Ystwyth CC "turn up and try" day a few years ago.
couple of guys turned up on DH bikes with supertacky tyres on.
didnt come last either, which was a bit shocking.
didnt come last either, which was a bit shocking
😯
I was on my Mercian Touring bike when I was over taken by an MTB on the Solway 10 & 25 a couple of years ago.
If you're on a TT on a mountain bike and overtake people you are a hero and that's a reason to do it.
If you're on a TT on a mountain bike and overtake people you are a hero and that's a reason to do it.
Fair point!
tragically1969 - Member[i]Well fine - but why turn up to an event? Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!
Because its not a under race conditions ? [/i]
But is it race conditions if you don't care about the people riding at the same time? If all race conditions means is that an old boy gives you a feel up at the start whilst trying to grab your seatpost (do they all do that or just the DOM down our way?) and someone else gets to press the stopwatch button at the end I'm not sure I'd be much more motivated than riding the course on any other day. We are all different I guess.
I agree, convert. I have done TTs for training purposes really, but also because I did want someone to beat. The course (Cardiff) was quite hilly tho, which made the whole thing a lot slower in terms of actual road speed, which to me made it more boring. I'd rather be blasting along a flat road at 25mph than climbing a hill at 15.
Course what I really want is track racing. *sigh*
Who was that Olly?
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
I could never get the motivation to do a TT without a number on my back and as such i don't consider a time a time unless its done under race conditions.
Each to their own and all that..........
Well fine - but why turn up to an event? Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!
Because it's fun and nothing makes you go faster than seeing that guy 2 mins ahead of you........
and although you may not be the fastest there are other prizes
Longest on course
Closest to 20mph average
etc.
I only said 10% as a for instance - no idea what the difference would actually be, except I am certain it wouldn't be as big as some people are suggesting. Also, the difference between bike type can be dwarfed by the difference between clothing and position - bit like the tri-bars on normal drop barred bike thing, where you'd be better off being lower and the narrowness of tri-bars is us the final nth to go for after you've gone for the big stuff.
Race conditions - its an event, you get the buzz. How many people do the MM to win? ten teams? Its an event for everyone else, they can get in the groove. (an extreme example i know.)
If that doesn't appeal thats fine. its easy enough to set a route and start your watch.
I think we do agree - I could never give myself a nosebleed through all out effort (I have done a number of times) without a number on my back. But as soon as I have a number on my back I want to beat other people with numbers on their backs! What I couldn't do is have a number on my back and not care about how my performance ranked alongside other people with numbers on their backs!
My current problem is that now I have physically lost my competitive edge through too much work and a few injury niggles, the people whose numbered back I would realistically be competing against are people I have no real passion about beating.
I think on an MTB your biggest problem would be road position, then possibly wheel size assuming you have your tyres sorted. My old skool 90s Orange P7 stretched out fully rigid thing with 23mm slicks on it had a decent position but was a hell of a lot slower than a road bike.
Well I say hell of a lot - it was noticeably and annoyingly slower.
EDIT: re the event buzz.. I found that at the Cardiff 10 anyone I could pass I could pass very easily, and there was no-one else within sight to chase. Anyone who passed me did so easily too. I suppose like always I am in that pocket between weekenders and fast riders. Which put me about 9th out of 27 ish.. although that included women and a couple of kids too 🙂
Bayonette (Tim)
twas in my first year
I help marshal the TT's at my club. They do "open TT's". Pays your £2 and get to ride. Think that covers you for day membership.
Not seen any one use an MTB except on the hill climb.
See a few on CX bikes and one lass last year did a 10 mile road TT on a hybrid.
Glen - I'll give it a whirl for you this weekend. As the owner of a disced up Cervelo P3c and a long travel Fs with a hardtail, a cx bike and a road bike in between I'll do a flying mile on each and compare the times and report back. Then I'll ride the cervelo in baggies and the fs in a skinsuit and see if that makes a difference 😛
Bennett? 36:04 on the first of the year 2005? To be fair he was a bit lucky. 2 youths and a lady behind. One with a 59.44!
skinsuit and see if that makes a difference
See I reckon it does make a bit of a difference. I don't have a TT bike but even putting on old crappy Shamals, tubs and tri bars on the road bike makes it feel quicker.
If I do a TT on the tourer I even take the racks off!
Are TTs conducted on open roads or not? Just wondering how my times to do 10 miles on the road (with a few junctions) would compare to a TT course. Are they point to point or loops?
Ours are all out-and-back type routes. Turning points are either roundabouts or a marshal point on quiet roads.
So out and back is all on one road, with a turn to come back at some point?
The start and finish have to be quite close together (I forget how far) in terms of distance and height. Standing start, flying finish. Open roads - the super fast boys like a nice busy Saturday afternoon on the A1 where there are plenty of lorries pushing a ton of air in front and vortex behind to give them a hand.
[url= http://www.southdc.org.uk/courses/p882.htm ]Sometimes out and back [/url]
[url= http://www.southdc.org.uk/courses/p811.htm ]Sometimes circular (sporting)[/url]
Tron, they are open roads yes. Often a dual carriageway with a roundabout, or some other place where you can turn round without slowing too much. Always out and back, to negate wind etc. You can ride the same routes on your own if you like - most clubs will publish their route I suppose.
Cardiff route started [url= http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/mm?ie=UTF8&hl=en&ll=51.460532,-3.31285&spn=0.01869,0.041456&t=h&z=15 ]here[/url] and went west to the junction for Cowbridge then back to the start again.
Lighthearted Shropshire TT with the Athertons.
Aye different events are different, my local one is on largely quiet country roads it's good. It's £2 to enter, which means it's ideal for just going along, chewing the fat and pushing yourself harder than you would without a race number on.
Molgrips if you can really just go and ride 10 miles at true TT pace then you're either no good at TTing, or you should do better in MTB races. As folk have said, 95% of people are never going to win a race, why should that stop them entering.
TTs are just about beating your personal time, even if you did it on a DH bike you could monitor your progress.
As for the difference certain 'enhancements' make, read [url= http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/how-aero-is-aero-19273 ]this[/url].
A TT bike with aero bars uses 50W less than a road bike with drop bars, that's massive!
I ride very well indeed in MTB XC races. I just climb too slowly because I am too fat! Other than that, my riding is top class 🙂 And it's not about winning, it's about beating those close to you. And you won't do that if they are on a road bike or TT and you are not.
And I am indeed not good at TTing. Just boring. Nothing to spark my imagination and get me going.. no fight.
Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!
I did this a few years ago, in central London, on my basic little road bike. Did it in about 29 minutes, which I was pleased with, but I'd like to give it a go on a road without cars, traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, etc. I'm sure I could save a good few minutes if I could keep up a constant pace, rather than having to slow down then speed up for lights, take it easy when there's lots of cars around, etc.
And it's not about winning, it's about beating those close to you
But there will be people to beat who are probably slower than you would be on an equivalent bike. Again though, TTs aren't really just about beating other people!
Definitely, tm. 29 minute in traffic is decent!
EDIT: Isn't there an outdoor cycling track in East London somewhere?
Herne Hill?
There was, at Eastway, but it's a ruddy great building site now. 🙁
I near killed myself on that ride. I was having to push 27+mph most of the way, just to make up for all the time lost. Parliament Square was the worst; about 6 sets of lights in 500m or so, losing loads of time at each.
Herne Hill? Wash your mouth out; that's in [i]South[/i] London (spits)!
our local TT is a 9 shape-ish, with plenty of left turns.
Convert, sounds like you need to "beat yourself" if that doesn't sound to rude. Take your road to a TT and just set a time, then set out to beat it next week.
Sometimes if you've got all the gear you need to beat all the guys with all the gear. If you're not on your game, it will set up back. But just take a step back and focus on one goal - to be faster than last week.
I'm half tempted to try one again myself, certainly wouldn't mind doing another 2 up.
There was a guy that did some silly times on a mountainbike when I did them in the 80s but I think it was an Olympic standard rider being naughty. Possibly Mathew Stephens?
I won the Mid Shropshire Wheelers road hill climb up the Burway on my mountain bike with slicks one year, much to the annoyance of certain roadies, with cries of cheating due to having lower gears (well, A. I didn't use all of them, and B. it's not my problem amateur roadies push such retarded gears uphill!).
I also got the 'Most Improved Rider' in the Club 10's, but that was more to do with starting the season on my mountain bike, and finishing on a road bike 😀
Don't turn your riser bars upside down to get a lower more aerodynamic position I did and 60 miles later my wrists were in agony.
You should definitely give it a go if you want. I am actually more a TT'er than a mountain biker and we have seen the occasional mountain bike at a time trial. With regards to being "allowed" to ride in one:
Most clubs will support you being a provisional member, so sign up for membership (no initial membership fee) pay for the TT and you are good to go, if you don't like it that's the end of it
CTT has designated "come and try it events", which bypass the need to be a member of the club but still ensures you are insured against third party claims. I imagine your local club, if it has designated any as such, will indicate on their list of events, mine does.
As others say, unless you end up in some sort of rivalry you can only aim to beat yourself, once you are on the course it doesn't really matter what you ride. Just remember, ride until you can't go any harder, then keep going! 🙂
tting is ****ing ace - love it
been TTing on a road bike with tri bars(these make a huge difference) for years but finally bit the bullet on a tt bike this year - nothing too flash - a second hand planet x stealth - ultegra. First race tonight
what a difference the Position makes ! barely felt the headwind - despite it blowing a full on hoolie tonight. took the win by 30 seconds instead of my normal 2nd by a 10 seconds in this event !
140psi in the tires and no tread made for interesting in the wet though - coulda done with an mtb for the cornering !
biggest limitation i can see in MTB is lack of gearing .... i have 53:11 and on the flat can wind that up to 130rpm - now if your on your mtb you aint got a hope in hell of keeping up on 44:11 youll have to be doing near 200rpm ....
failing that - get a big chainring on there (most courses are flat or near enough flat so you will only need the outer) get some clip on tri bars and slicks at 100 or so psi and youll be able to get up there if you got the legs !
anyone t on a cross bike as i think the slightly shorter tt would bea better postion for clip ons than a standard road bike, been mulling htis a week or 2 may go out and try the clip ons on both and see if there is an noticable difference.
Yeah but trail rat, you'll not be able to travel fast enough to need 53:11 on an mtb 🙂 You have to be pretty damn fit to spin out 44:11 on the flat but on a slight down you are right - spin tastic.
Another point re TT bikes - it's not necessarily just the aerodynamics. They have really steep seat angles which actually helps quite a lot in getting the power down. You can help your times on any bike by moving the saddle forward as far as you can.
EDIT: Karnali - cross bikes have slack seat angles, do they not? You might struggle to get power down as well on one - my mate got rid of his for this very reason, and he wasn't even TTing. If you are using clip ons you might also want to try tilting the saddle down to save your balls.