I've been thinking about having a go at TTing.
To avoid buying a TT bike, then finding I don't like it or the novelty wears off after a couple of events, I thought I might have a go on my mountain bike.
Roadies always strike me as a conservative bunch. What reaction would I get if I rocked up on a 29er hardtail Rohloff ?
Would it be an unprecedented act of irreverence, or would they just tut, tut and mutter to each other "Oh no, not another one".
I think my first move is to recce some of the local courses and do my own unofficial timed runs and compare my time with previous results. I'd like to have some idea of how far down the field I would be before I give it a go.
you might be better to see if anyone local to you has a bike you can borrow.
to use an mtb to try TT is like trying to make a judgement on downhill having ridden the course on a 'cross bike...
Years ago Barrie Clarke turned up to a local TT 10 on his MTB and beat everyone.
You can ride whatever you want (apart from recumbants) on TT's. I know a few people who ride MTBs - mostly it's about challenging yourself. You might get some funny looks but what the heck.
However I haven't done any TTs for years - too dangerous down here and too boring. I prefer to go for a ride in the woods!
I think you will find, having done a couple of triathlon's on a MTB, that anyone half decent on a TT bike will be way faster than you. I'm afraid I think it makes quite a big difference, esp. in a TT format I should think.
Mind you, that's not a reason not to have a go and see if you like it. I'm not sure but you might also find that thre are rules about the bikes that you might fall foul of, depends on the seriousness of the event I suppose. Best thing to do is contact the organisers anad have a chat with them.
It would be the proverbial spoon at the knife fight, they'd probably think you were a mentalist.
The last TT I did (hate the things) was a hill climb and did that on a rigid on-one singlespeed with mud tyres. I did learn that day what a heart attack feels like.
It would be a horrible way to torture yourself, if you broke evens on a 10 miler you would be going bloody well
What reaction would you expect if you turned up at Glentress on a roadbike?
I suspect that the conservative nature of roadies is well matched by mountain bikers...
To find out if you are quick enough, just do a 25 mile ride; under an hour is good.
It would be about as suitable as a tt bike on an xc course. All other things being equal you would be pulverised by someone of similar ability on the right bike for the job so it won't really give you much of a clue as to your true abilities. Having said that, unless you are at the pointy end its about challenging yourself so whats the harm.
Ignore the open events, and find a few club events close to you as it will be far more relaxed, you could probably enter on the line and it'll cost you about a quid. Once you are into open events, its all about seeded starting times on past performances & gets a bit more serious. I've seen people ride mtbs in club tt's before, but not often.
Stand by for a serious insight into a whole new geeky world that will make bearded singlespeeders seem like the life and soul of the party!
I sadly never got under the hour solo, that was pre tri bars days though. Only managed it 2 up.
Hmmm could I?
Just go for it. You won't get a better work out in circa 30 minutes anywhere!!
I did a 10 miler once. They did set me off first so I had no one to chase. Everyone on a road bike beat me but that wasn't really the point. I just wanted to push myself a bit... and I did, averaged about 20mph which I was pleased with.
I've done two triathlons and some TTs on my cyclocross bike which isn't far removed from a 29er with slicks. I noticed quite a few people on mountain bikes in these events.
Don't worry what other people think, just have a go and see if you like it.
I've not done a TT but I've marsahlled a few. People turn up on bikes. The guys who win almost invariably have proper TT bikes. After that, TT bikes, road bkes with clip-ons, mountain bikes with slicks, fixed gear thingies with wrong-sized wheels and a 3-speed with a chainguard and a bell.
A large proportion of people are comparing their times against their own best times. So you're fooling no-one if you do your first one on an mtb and the next one on a TT bike and set a new personal best, but (in my limited experience) no-one cares what anyone else is riding unless it looks like cheating (which bringing a spoon to a knife-fight generally doesn't). 🙂
I've done a few 10's and 25's on a MTB for training, rattled out a 22.39 on a Raleigh Technium around 1990/91. That upset quite a few TTers
p.s. you also HAVE to be a member of an CTT affiliated cycling club to be allowed to ride a TT - no exceptions (unless you lie and say you are member of club x on the start sheet and hope that no one from club x turns up!)
Getting the position low enough has got to be the biggest factor. My Explosif with short rigid forks, flipped stem, flat bars and 25mm Gatorsins is very nearly as fast as my road bike, and I'm certain it would be faster than a drop barred bike set up a bit taller. The aero drag and bob of a susp fork would not be helpful, but fit road tyres and flip the stem and your bike will not be nearly as unsuitable as "a TT bike on a DH course".
convert
No you dont have to be a member, most clubs will charge and extra amount to cover insurance if you are not in an affiliated club.
Go and have a go.
You might well find that a lot of local tens a MTB record. Unless you are supoer fast you are only racing your self anyway. My experiance of doing the the tuesday 10 with the MSW, has been ace. If you turn up and have go you're in!
Last year Matt from Torq had some of his Oz racing mates over, one of them blow holes in the 10 on a mtb. Nice work.
yes, you do - no exception!
From the ctt site:-
[i]Entering Events
Whatever type of time trial you are entering, club or open, [b]you must be a member of a club that is affiliated to Cycling Time Trials[/b]. Being a BCF or CTC member does not generally qualify you to ride time trials unless your BCF Division or CTC District Association is affiliated to CTT.[/i]
Maybe you are thinking tri. I think the ctt do also run some come and give it a go events where the rules are different too.
[url= http://www.cc-cc.co.uk/content.php?PageName=Time Trialling for Beginners]Beginners guide to TT's[/url]
Just turn up and do it. The point about testing is that you are testing yourself as much as anyone. Roadies are actually pretty open about equipment, probably more so than mountain bikers it seems. I know some people who do similar road bike events on their mountain bikes. It's about having fun.
"It's about having fun" i think you are mixing time trialling up with something else:-)
what Speshpaul said - TT's are about feeling pain.
I've been thinking about having a go at TTing.
To avoid buying a TT bike, then finding I don't like it or the novelty wears off after a couple of events
Buy a road bike? Much more 'usable' than a TT bike and quicker than an MTB.
Otherwise, just go and have a punt, as folk have said it's about beating your own time, you're unlikely to win on an MTB, so just go and 'have fun' (note the inverted commas).
convert
Read this without delving into rules an regs:
http://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/Beginners/tabid/203/Default.aspx
If your bars are in the right place you can ride with your elbows on the bars and get a pretty good tuck. That's what I used to do with my dad's sit-up-and-beg hybrid (with just normal riding not TTing) when I was about 14 before I had my own bike 🙂
Just ask Andy Wilkinson, the bike he broke the 12 hour event record and came within a whisker of the Best Allrounder last year started off life as a mountainbike, he has added a disc wheel and tri bars but after all it's not about the bike.
Sorry, no still not cutting it for me. The link from that article (good piece btw) shows the clubs that offer day membership to casual riders for doing [b]their [/b]events. You still have to be a member of a club, its just you can join for one day rather than 365. I clicked the link for my area and they list 12 clubs that offer the scheme out of 68 clubs in the area. I know for a fact that 5 of those clubs on the list do not actually run TTs so them being on the list is pretty meaningless. So that leaves 7 out of a total 68 clubs in the area. I'm not fancying those chances of being able choose a random and convenient event to race without being a proper yearly paid up member of a ctt affiliated club and getting away with it. I know that you would be turned away from any club tts within 15 miles of me without being a "proper" club member.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is rubbish that you pretty much have to be a proper member of a club even to dip your toe in the sport and very typical of the sport in general (I once got stopped on the start line of a meaningless obscure open race because I had borrowed my mates overshoes and whilst still the right colour they had the wrong sponsors logo on) but it is still the case for most events out there.
but after all it's not about the bike
To an extent mate it is. Patently. I mean you're not gonna win the club TT on a downhill bike, are you? And to be honest you're not going to on an MTB either unless you are very very much quicker than the other riders.
Even the difference between a TT bike and a normal road bike is like 2 minutes.
Who said anything about winning? If you want to have a go then turning up with a mountainbike isn't a problem. If you want to improve then the most cost effective upgrades are narrow slicks pumped up as hard as they will go, a cheap set of tri bars (about £30) will get you a more aero position, thereafter its all about diminishing returns. We all see all the gear no idea brigade in every facet of the sport. Our club will let you ride a try out event without joining especially at the start of the season, Wednesday night 7.00pm on the Huddersfield to Penistone road.
TT's are about feeling pain.
That's what I said, it's about having fun...
I don't kow why you'd think it was fun if you weren't competitive...
It's a bit like climbing mountains in the mist innit! Pain and hard work all the way up with no view to speak of and despite all that there is a warm fuzzy feeling in the pub afterwards and an urge to do it all over again.
You don't go to a tt for the atmosphere though! To be fair more "normal" people turn up to club ones than open ones so you might find someone to actually speak to.
Lots of replies and overall it looks like it's worth a shot then.
I've got no problem joining a club if I have to. I just checked my local club's website and it's £15 a year. I can spend more than that driving to one distant MTB event, so if it gets me in to several local TTs, it's worth it.
I also found this on their site in the Beginner's Guide bit...
In all but club events, any clothing worn can only bear the name of the manufacturer or the club, any third party name or product is not permitted.
Sounds a bit stuffy to me. I think team kit looks silly if you're not in that team, but banning it is a bit over the top.
I don't get this comparison of riding TTs on an MTB with riding DH on a TT bike. Most mountain bikers will join up the trails with a bit of road riding, road riders won't normally take a short cut off road.
It's a personal challenge. If there's other MTBers there, I'll be racing them. If not, I'll set myself a standard, then try to beat it next time.
When I mentioned buying a TT bike, I actually had a CX bike in mind that would be more suitable for TTs than an MTB.
I live about 1km from the nearest tarmac road, so a lightweight racing bike wouldn't be ideal for me. I reckon most of my commute would be easy enough on a CX bike, so I'd been thinking about getting one anyway.
As above, no problem riding on an MTB if you just fancy trying it out, and you can measure progress against your own times or other riders with similar times. TT-specific equipment is only necessary if you want to get competitive, but you'll see a big improvement from just fitting some slicks and a set of cheap clip-on tri-bars.
[url= http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/uk-time-trial-round-up-wilkinson-breaks-12hr-record-22792 ]Andy Wilkinson's record breaking bike [/url] - actually a converted hybrid, I think.
The best way to start is to ride some club confined events, rather than open events. This will let you get some experience of riding TTs and you should be able to pick up lots of advice from more experienced people.
Judging by some of the stuff I read on here, you might find people a bit less conservative than the MTB world. A lot of the cyclists I know ride MTB, TT and road.
The plain kit thing only really applies to open time trials your local club won't give a stuff if you turn up in a tutu and baggy shorts (as long as the top has sleeves) I regularly ride in a trade team top as do the majority who are too tight to buy club strip.
I'm a newcomer to TTing, having started in earnest last season on a road bike. I've since sold that and am riding a cross bike this year (on knobblies). Ours is a welcoming club and has an active MTB side aswell. In the past 2 years of taking part or taking photos, I've seen fixxies, tandoms, hybrids, tourers and MTBs enter and have a go. Nobody carres and indeed you'll probably get a bit if interest/banter if you do try something untoward.
Here's some snaps of riders on our local 10.
local XC whippet a week before last years Dyfi
[img] 
[/img]
fastest rider on the 10 at present. Not far off course record
[img] 
[/img]
on the hoods, having a go
[img] 
[/img]
All welcome 🙂
Fine to turn up and have a go on any bike.. but I'd have to wonder what the point was. If you want to ride 10 miles as fast as you can (perfectly reasonable thing to want to do) then just go and do it. Surely the point of doing a club TT is to compete with the other riders? That is what you won't be able to do on an mtb unless there are other similar riders their on their mtbs...?
Milton Keynes cycling club use to have a MTB record for their ten. I think I held it for about a week. I was slower than on my road bike but not by much. They use to charge about £1 for a mid wek time trial not being a member was not an issue
Its nothing like entering a downhill on a cylocross bike is it! I mean the bike is capable of safely covering the course at speed.
The point I was trying to make re: ridign down hill on a cyclocross bike vs TT on an MTB was that, to make a fair assesment of the activity, it was best to ride it on somethign designed for the job.
In both cases you can complete the course but if you;re lookign to decide if it's an area of cycling you want to get serious about doing it on a tool designed for the job is the best way to give it a fair chance.
Alright then, it's like entering a DH course on an XC race bike. I've done the Cwmcarn DH on my 80mm Kona Heihei with the saddle all the way up, but it was slow and involved a lot of mincing.. and I didn't do the road drop 🙂
OK fair points. Particularly as I never did a time trial on a proper bike....
Nothing like as far apart as DH bike and XC. My "street" mtb is only about 3% slower than my (admittedly mudguard wearing) road bike, and a full TT bike isn't going to be much better than 10% quicker on top of that, esp if the rider lacks the flexibility to get really really low.
Good tight clothing, take all the bottle cages and other crap off, flip the stem to get low, flat bars, 25mm tyres, 100+psi - those details are worth just as much as the difference between, say, a regular road bike and a full TT bike.
convert
With all due respect it sounds like you are trying to be difficult for the sake of it.
Its fairly simple, if you want to ride a TT that a club promotes and you have to be a member of a club just join the club or one of your choice, our club costs £12 a year to join and is on that list, its hardly bank breaking amounts of money or a hardship to do so.
do we have to quote each others names to talk to each other 🙄tragically1969
Nope, not being difficult - just giving the facts and advice - that's what this thread was about after all. If you bothered to read back all I ever said is you will have to look to join a club to play the game. I never said it was a big deal or expensive having to join a club, for a day or a year, just that you have to. Just admit that you were wrong and we'll be done with it 😉
Glenp - 10% is a lot in time trialling. The difference between 25 minutes and 27.5 minuts is big.
And yes you can do a lot by changing tyres and whatnot.. but you still won't be competitive and you'll lose out to people who aren't as fit as you.
Didn't say 10% wasn't a lot. I said the difference was way smaller than picking your way down a DH course on an XC race bike.
Plus, as lots of people have already said, most people want to challenge [i]themselves[/i]. On the flip side of what you're saying is the question of how can you be satisfied that you went out and bought faster equipment than someone else? What is this, competitive shopping?
Plus, as lots of people have already said, most people want to challenge themselves
Well fine - but why turn up to an event? Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!
Well fine - but why turn up to an event? Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!
Because its not a under race conditions ?
Well, ok. Still think what you're saying would only make sense if everyone had identical equipment. Provided the mtb is roughly in the ball-park then the rider is likely to beat at least some riders on regular road bikes, and indeed poorly set-up TT bikes. Which would be fun.
competitive shopping - you are talking about triathlon now!
The problem I always had with the testing yourself method was there were so many parameters. When you get half good the differences between a float ride and a total mare can be a handful of seconds. There is little point in judging a ride on one course with a ride on another but even a ride on the same course will vary between if it was raining (some rain good, lots bad), if it was windy & if so in what direction, how much traffic there was (traffic is good in the f*cked world of TT) and how much training had I done in the week previously. Then when you factor in the latest widget on your bike or a slight change in your position and its impossible to really know for certain if it was you or another factor that made you faster/slower than last time.
In the end for most, no matter how much you don't want it to be, it's a competition against others, even if you are just ranking your performance by those you beat and those who beat you. And yes, buying speed does become a factor too. Mind you there is nothing cooler that catching your minute man with him on a disc and no better excuse for your mediocrity that blaming your kit.
Oh, and in some races 10% might see you go from first to last and at high speeds you might have to nearly double your power output to increase your speed by 10%.
I did the Ystwyth CC "turn up and try" day a few years ago.
couple of guys turned up on DH bikes with supertacky tyres on.
didnt come last either, which was a bit shocking.
didnt come last either, which was a bit shocking
😯
I was on my Mercian Touring bike when I was over taken by an MTB on the Solway 10 & 25 a couple of years ago.
If you're on a TT on a mountain bike and overtake people you are a hero and that's a reason to do it.
If you're on a TT on a mountain bike and overtake people you are a hero and that's a reason to do it.
Fair point!
tragically1969 - Member[i]Well fine - but why turn up to an event? Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!
Because its not a under race conditions ? [/i]
But is it race conditions if you don't care about the people riding at the same time? If all race conditions means is that an old boy gives you a feel up at the start whilst trying to grab your seatpost (do they all do that or just the DOM down our way?) and someone else gets to press the stopwatch button at the end I'm not sure I'd be much more motivated than riding the course on any other day. We are all different I guess.
I agree, convert. I have done TTs for training purposes really, but also because I did want someone to beat. The course (Cardiff) was quite hilly tho, which made the whole thing a lot slower in terms of actual road speed, which to me made it more boring. I'd rather be blasting along a flat road at 25mph than climbing a hill at 15.
Course what I really want is track racing. *sigh*
Who was that Olly?
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
I could never get the motivation to do a TT without a number on my back and as such i don't consider a time a time unless its done under race conditions.
Each to their own and all that..........
Well fine - but why turn up to an event? Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!
Because it's fun and nothing makes you go faster than seeing that guy 2 mins ahead of you........
and although you may not be the fastest there are other prizes
Longest on course
Closest to 20mph average
etc.
I only said 10% as a for instance - no idea what the difference would actually be, except I am certain it wouldn't be as big as some people are suggesting. Also, the difference between bike type can be dwarfed by the difference between clothing and position - bit like the tri-bars on normal drop barred bike thing, where you'd be better off being lower and the narrowness of tri-bars is us the final nth to go for after you've gone for the big stuff.
Race conditions - its an event, you get the buzz. How many people do the MM to win? ten teams? Its an event for everyone else, they can get in the groove. (an extreme example i know.)
If that doesn't appeal thats fine. its easy enough to set a route and start your watch.
I think we do agree - I could never give myself a nosebleed through all out effort (I have done a number of times) without a number on my back. But as soon as I have a number on my back I want to beat other people with numbers on their backs! What I couldn't do is have a number on my back and not care about how my performance ranked alongside other people with numbers on their backs!
My current problem is that now I have physically lost my competitive edge through too much work and a few injury niggles, the people whose numbered back I would realistically be competing against are people I have no real passion about beating.
I think on an MTB your biggest problem would be road position, then possibly wheel size assuming you have your tyres sorted. My old skool 90s Orange P7 stretched out fully rigid thing with 23mm slicks on it had a decent position but was a hell of a lot slower than a road bike.
Well I say hell of a lot - it was noticeably and annoyingly slower.
EDIT: re the event buzz.. I found that at the Cardiff 10 anyone I could pass I could pass very easily, and there was no-one else within sight to chase. Anyone who passed me did so easily too. I suppose like always I am in that pocket between weekenders and fast riders. Which put me about 9th out of 27 ish.. although that included women and a couple of kids too 🙂
Bayonette (Tim)
twas in my first year
I help marshal the TT's at my club. They do "open TT's". Pays your £2 and get to ride. Think that covers you for day membership.
Not seen any one use an MTB except on the hill climb.
See a few on CX bikes and one lass last year did a 10 mile road TT on a hybrid.
Glen - I'll give it a whirl for you this weekend. As the owner of a disced up Cervelo P3c and a long travel Fs with a hardtail, a cx bike and a road bike in between I'll do a flying mile on each and compare the times and report back. Then I'll ride the cervelo in baggies and the fs in a skinsuit and see if that makes a difference 😛
Bennett? 36:04 on the first of the year 2005? To be fair he was a bit lucky. 2 youths and a lady behind. One with a 59.44!
skinsuit and see if that makes a difference
See I reckon it does make a bit of a difference. I don't have a TT bike but even putting on old crappy Shamals, tubs and tri bars on the road bike makes it feel quicker.
If I do a TT on the tourer I even take the racks off!
Are TTs conducted on open roads or not? Just wondering how my times to do 10 miles on the road (with a few junctions) would compare to a TT course. Are they point to point or loops?
Ours are all out-and-back type routes. Turning points are either roundabouts or a marshal point on quiet roads.
So out and back is all on one road, with a turn to come back at some point?
The start and finish have to be quite close together (I forget how far) in terms of distance and height. Standing start, flying finish. Open roads - the super fast boys like a nice busy Saturday afternoon on the A1 where there are plenty of lorries pushing a ton of air in front and vortex behind to give them a hand.
[url= http://www.southdc.org.uk/courses/p882.htm ]Sometimes out and back [/url]
[url= http://www.southdc.org.uk/courses/p811.htm ]Sometimes circular (sporting)[/url]
Tron, they are open roads yes. Often a dual carriageway with a roundabout, or some other place where you can turn round without slowing too much. Always out and back, to negate wind etc. You can ride the same routes on your own if you like - most clubs will publish their route I suppose.
Cardiff route started [url= http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/mm?ie=UTF8&hl=en&ll=51.460532,-3.31285&spn=0.01869,0.041456&t=h&z=15 ]here[/url] and went west to the junction for Cowbridge then back to the start again.
Lighthearted Shropshire TT with the Athertons.
Aye different events are different, my local one is on largely quiet country roads it's good. It's £2 to enter, which means it's ideal for just going along, chewing the fat and pushing yourself harder than you would without a race number on.
Molgrips if you can really just go and ride 10 miles at true TT pace then you're either no good at TTing, or you should do better in MTB races. As folk have said, 95% of people are never going to win a race, why should that stop them entering.
TTs are just about beating your personal time, even if you did it on a DH bike you could monitor your progress.
As for the difference certain 'enhancements' make, read [url= http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/how-aero-is-aero-19273 ]this[/url].
A TT bike with aero bars uses 50W less than a road bike with drop bars, that's massive!
I ride very well indeed in MTB XC races. I just climb too slowly because I am too fat! Other than that, my riding is top class 🙂 And it's not about winning, it's about beating those close to you. And you won't do that if they are on a road bike or TT and you are not.
And I am indeed not good at TTing. Just boring. Nothing to spark my imagination and get me going.. no fight.
Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!
I did this a few years ago, in central London, on my basic little road bike. Did it in about 29 minutes, which I was pleased with, but I'd like to give it a go on a road without cars, traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, etc. I'm sure I could save a good few minutes if I could keep up a constant pace, rather than having to slow down then speed up for lights, take it easy when there's lots of cars around, etc.
And it's not about winning, it's about beating those close to you
But there will be people to beat who are probably slower than you would be on an equivalent bike. Again though, TTs aren't really just about beating other people!
Definitely, tm. 29 minute in traffic is decent!
EDIT: Isn't there an outdoor cycling track in East London somewhere?