[Closed] Ti Frames - "Current Fashion" or "here to stay"?

Hasn't the same question been asked for 15 years and they're still around? I would love a Ti Dialled Alpine when Mike makes them. Oh, if. Oh, never 🙁

definitely a bit of a recent fad (like late 80's when they were must-have) but always been there as well.

Have to say I quite fancy one but I can't justify it really.

they're not really a fad in as far as this:
[img] [/img]
was my dream bike as long ago as i was into biking

I know they have been around as a niche bike for a while but obviously I mean't as a popular main stream bike material as Ti frames have exploaded on the market in the last few years 🙂

I fancy a high qual steel or a Ti but cannot justify it when I have a perfectly good Kinesis XC2 😉

BTW I wasn;t dissing Ti frames - just wanted to hear peoples opinions on them 😕

Curious too! I like the concept - ride as good as steel, yet no taking care of paint or corrosion issues. I don't know anyone who's owned one for a good lenth of time, and 'rides it' it's not cracked, normally through the weld. The welding process is specific and has to be in a controlled environment for it to work, long term it appears. I think you're fine if going for the top boutique brands, Indy Fab, Jones etc but I wouldn't risk the more affordable brands. Stick with steel, at least it can be repaired/resprayed if anything happens - it is the most plyable material, which is why fatgue cracking on a decent steel frame is rare. Some get bent, some are poorly made also before anyone states, that their 150 quid steel frame has cracked!

Ti makes a good material for making bike frames, so people are keen to make bikes out of it. Seen as many broken Ti frames as anything else I suppose, and I was fairly sceptical about the whole Ti feel thing, right up to the point when I rode a Hummer.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that what's common on here is the norm. Ti is still very uncommon compared to alumninium, Ti and steel and nowadays, carbon.

I've always wanted one, I probably wanted one of those that flatboy lusted after. Costly but supposedly best combo of weight v ride and last forever. The problem is bikes, parts and how we ride changes, if I owned the above merlin frame I'm not sure I'd still want to ride it now. (and I'd have trouble finding forks for it.

would be a very pimpy hack bike tho 🙂

I am aware that Ti are uncommon related to other materials but most bike shops seems to be talking about them again and me having arguments with them at the price tage and advantage/cost ratio 😉

i ended up consomethinging my lifelong love for merlin, i couldn't resist!
[IMG] [/IMG]

I've only had my Ti frames since 2003 (audax bike) and 2005 (MTB) but they're still quite new compared to my steel touring bike (1993).

Interested in peoples views?

Here's some views of my 'passé' 15 year old KHS titanium in various guises....

[center][img] [/img]
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img][/center]

theflatboy - NO offence but I dont see the point of a ti full suss. I dont get it at all.

well it is a view that is often suggested. all i know is how fantastic it is to ride. i do love it so!

For my type of riding (lairy XC, big days in the Lakes/Spain) its the perfect frame material and I cant imagine not having one.

Yes they cost more and you can get a fine steel frame for £150.....but its the frame of the bike, its the really important bit!

£1000 on a frame isnt expensive. £100 on a headset is expensive. £400 on a crankset is expensive.

Breakages? bikes break.

Markus, I got a suspicion that looking at slugwashes KHS is the answer to why a full suss Ti, am I right in guessing that they are recent shots of the KHS Slugwash?

You notice it still looks like new Markus?

That was my reason for buying a Ti frame, a 2nd hand Tinbred, I dont really look after kit and it always looked new with a good wash. Buy one now and it should last a long time before its completely superceeded by the latest thing... Right up until rear brake mounts go post or something and it gets hard to get calipers for, or 1.5 headsets do eventually take over from 1 1/8th, I cant see one getting out dated..

So i had a frame for life, and some ****er stole it.. 😥

+1 Tinsy, frame for life. Not sure why I'd ever change.

Moots factory tour: [url= http://teamdicky.blogspot.com/2009/07/moots-factory-tour.html ]http://teamdicky.blogspot.com/2009/07/moots-factory-tour.html[/url] (warning may contain a sense of humour):

Very few customers actually have the opportunity to cash in on the lifetime warranty, and recently a customer called about his cracked FIFTEEN YEAR OLD FRAME. He wanted a warranty, and yes, that's what he will get. That's pretty sweet.

That's impressive

i don't get this frame for life thing. i would rather have a modern steel/alloy frame than a Ti frame with 1in headset, quill stem, 60mm fork, canti brakes and high top tube that cost a fortune 10 years ago.

MrSmith - Member
i don't get this frame for life thing. i would rather have a modern steel/alloy frame than a Ti frame with 1in headset, quill stem, 60mm fork, canti brakes and high top tube that cost a fortune 10 years ago.

maybe just shows how fickle we are wanting the latest gear that we are told we need!

flatboy - ignore Markus, i reckon that's probably the best trail bike ever made.

to be fair, he did confirm that he intended NO offence. 🙂

i don't mind - as i say, it's been suggested on here before but i ride the little beauty hard and long, as they say, and i love her to bits. that's all i need to know. 🙂

i've wanted to since the early 90's when I saw the Rocky Mountain Ti Bolt. Finally allowed myself and replaced the Chameleon with a Ti456 and the difference is incredible - similar bikes handling wise but I can now come home from a long ride without back ache and a sore bum which the Chameleon dished out frequently.

i've had 4 in the last 6 years, so deffo not a frame for life for me.
i broke the Hummer too, which kinda broke my heart 🙁
i'm in a very lucky place however.....
as for current fad, don't be daft.
see Moots / Merlin / Jones who've been crafting for years some works of art.......

I'm with MrSmith on this,

I've got a "hardcore steel hardtail" which at the time I thought would be the last bike I ever owned. But in the 10 years that particular frame design has been arorund things have moved on. Ironicly they seem to have come full circle and a very similar frame from the same factory is now the latest must have bike, go figure?

this is an odd thread or at least I find it a bit odd. Passing fad? Crazy talk.

I've been riding a ti frame I've had since 1995 and it hasnt cracked, still rides as it did when I bought it and it still works as it should. No rust, no worries about metal fatigue. No cracks and only a few dings. I've ridden alu and steel and carbon bikes and ti always feels great.

... and I've just bought another ti framed as i decided to have both a SS and geared hardtail. Both are fantastic and frankly better than their owners abilities. ;o)

If anything is a new fad its going to be the plethora of carbon bikes out there right now.

I think the industry goes through waves of using new materials as new technologies get better understood and companies get better tooled up to produce. Undoubtedly the good stuff will stay and the other stuff will fade away. Good ti continues to hang around.

Yes they cost more and you can get a fine steel frame for £150.....but its the frame of the bike, its the really important bit!

£1000 on a frame isnt expensive. £100 on a headset is expensive. £400 on a crankset is expensive

I dont entirely agree. I'd say the really important bits are forks, brakes and tires, and also geometry. Frame material doesnt make much difference. £1000 for a frame is expensive in my eyes

reckon it's just trend mongering producers surfing the Ti wave before trying to flog us composites in a couple of years 😉

Surely the actual design (and also fit/set-up) of a bike frame is more significant than it's molecular structure?

And if so, is having the same design in various flavours of metal a compromise on some level or other ?

you know that scene in spinal tap where he says 'yes but these go up to 11'

its the same thing: 'yes but this is ti'

I like this bike: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech/2009/probikes/?id=mary_mcconneloug_seven09

the frame is 5 years old!

Ti does bring out a certain lustfullness...

Can't see that Ti is a fad though. I have a 6 yr old Ti hardtail. It still looks great - the unpainted Ti is easy to clean and doesn't corrode like steel or suffer from low fatigue life like alu.

It's young enough to be a "modern" mtb design, ie new components still fit, although the frame geometry is a very stretched out XC race style.

In the years that I've owned I've also has a Marin FS, Giant Reign and Pace 305 - but more often than not it's the Ti hardtail that's the bike of choice. It's a bit more balanced at the mo - almost 50:50 with the Pace, but during the years I ran the Ti with a FS I'd normally do 2, 3 or even 4 times the mileage on Ti bike.

I like the description of the Seven in mtbrDot's link

[i]Full specification
Frame: Seven Sola Gold custom, Cirrus™ Ultra-Butted™ and Argen™ butted titanium
Fork: RockShox SID World Cup w/ carbon crown and XLoc compression damper, 90/100psi positive/negative

Critical measurements
Rider's height: 1.66m (5' 6") ; Weight: 52.6kg (116lb)
Seat tube length, c-c: 373mm
Seat tube length, c-t: 410mm
Saddle height, from BB (c-t): 690mm
Tip of saddle nose to C of bars (next to stem): 511mm
Handlebar drop: 15mm
Head tube length: 90mm
Top tube length: 558mm

Front brake: Avid XX w/ 160mm rotor
Rear brake: Avid XX w/ 140mm rotor
Brake levers: Avid XX
Front derailleur: SRAM XX
Rear derailleur: SRAM XX
Shift levers: SRAM XX
Cassette: SRAM XX, 11-36T
Chain: SRAM PC-1090R
Crankset: SRAM XX, 175mm, 28/42T
Bottom bracket: SRAM XX BlackBox
Rims: Stan's NoTubes ZTR Race
Front hub: American Classic Disc 130
Rear hub: American Classic Disc 225
Spokes: DT Revolution 1.8/1.5mm, 32h, red alloy nipples
Front tyre: Kenda Small Block Eight DTC, 26x1.95", converted to tubeless
Rear tyre: Kenda Small Block Eight DTC, 26x1.95", converted to tubeless

Bars: Truvativ Noir World Cup, 580mm
Stem: Truvativ Stylo World Cup, 100mm x 5º
Headset: Crank Brothers Cobalt SL
Tape/grip: ESI Racer's Edge, shortened

Pedals: Crank Brothers Egg Beater 4Ti
Seat post: Syntace P6 Carbon
Saddle: fi'zi:k Aliante w/ braided carbon rails
Bottle cages: King Cage Titanium

Total bike weight: 8.74kg (19.27lb)
[/i]
Now that's how much a very light hardtail weighs in the real world, I bet all the people claiming 17-19lbs on here don't have kit half that weight.

🙂

I bet all the people claiming 17-19lbs on here don't have kit half that weight.

that would be a seriously light bike if they did!

Well my original question is getting some good discussions going 🙂

this is an odd thread or at least I find it a bit odd. Passing fad? Crazy talk.

I think its you 'ti_pin'. As you can see although this material has been around for a while (been used for many things apart from bikes historically i.e. human bone implants)and been used obviously for building frames, there HAS been, to me obviously, a recent surge in interest and frames pushed by companies and media!

Slugwash - Nice KHS had one myself, pretty light as I recall with RC50's and gripshift. Fell for a Pace so sold mine.

theflatboy - nice Merlin, I have one also. Truly a great ride, love at first ride.

(mr MC posting) as a bit of a former Ti geek, I'm pretty sure the KHS frame was made by Sandvik in Washington state, who made a lot of "own-brand" ti frames like Kona, Marin etc so its got a good heritage.

Only reason I sold my Litespeed (which had Ti just about everything) was a spinal problem which stops me riding hardtails. Still get sorely tempted when I see some of the nice stuff on here. It always struck me as the ideal material for MTB frames (no corrosion, bit of flex, good fatigue properties, hard wearing finish) and the fact that it is difficult to manipulate and build with properly was part of its appeal.

theflatboy - nice Merlin, I have one also. Truly a great ride, love at first ride.

I'm pretty sure the KHS frame was made by Sandvik in Washington state, who made a lot of "own-brand" ti frames like Kona, Marin etc so its got a good heritage.

That's interesting. I always assumed that the frame was made in some crappy far eastern or Russian workshop 'cos the downtube bottle bosses are slightly askew, the rear brake bossses are also mounted too high so will only work with the old Shimano DX BMX V-brakes (or similar) which have more vertical adjustment than the regular Shimano V-brakes. Also, my friend got through two of these frames, they both cracked at the welds. The second time it happened he didn't bother getting a replacement under warranty, he just stuck to road bikes.

BTW, I'm guessing the age of my KHS based on the year that my friend bought his first one. I got mine second-hand from a guy who worked in The Cycle Surgery in Highbury Corner. The City branch of CS still had one of these unsold frames hanging from it's ceiling in 2002 complete with the horrendous graphics that KHS saw fit to inflict on the down and seat tubes.

Right, I'm pootling off up over the Downs to Brighton on mine in an hour or two. Give us a wave if you see me out there!

i bought a ti audax bike last year and im very happy with it. And it does feel different to ride than my other steel ali and carbon bikes nice but different i prob prefer full carbon for when stamping on the pedals but the ti is lovely over distance and the lifetime warranty is always nice 🙂

My only experience with Ti is with the Ti Pompino. I've got a few other Pompinos to compare it to.

For a start it feels lighter - haven't weighed it yet, but the pick it up test is fairly obvious. The ride is really good. I have ridden it around the 'Puffer track and the bike gave me the confidence to try stuff I wouldn't normally do on a skinny tyre. It felt planted on the View Rock descent for example - no need to indulge in the heavy braking that the full sus kiddies do there.

How much that is due to it being Ti or that it was built by Lynskey I don't know.

not a passing fad, but too expensive for my wallet to toy with.
that said in the future when i have totally fine tuned the geometry of my hardtail mtb and road/tourer/commuter i would love both to be Ti.

still the magazines keeps changing what im supposed to need in a bike

I've had my ti bike for a few years now and i love it. I find the bike quite bouncy which makes riding easier for me, when I ride a steel bike now it hurts!

mema - what do you ride ?

Ti Pompino

i have never heard of such a thing! more info/pics please!

id love a ti singular peregrine should such a beast ever be made 🙂

TLR- this is the embarrassing part... I don't know! The frame was bought off ebay, supposedly a custom build and I can't work out the manufacturer! (and I have a single-speed handjob too). Can't post pics so can't even get help off here!

blimey, found one... but wish i hadn't!

[img] [/img]

lovely!

Having such fun on my MLC and she's a bike for life 🙂

[img] [/img]

Love my Litespeed 8)

I like the look of this off the bay at £850, shame its not disc only, oh and ive never heard of them!!

[img] [/img]

Anyone heard any more news on the Ti XC from On One?

I love Ti so much I'm going to try and find a SS road frame, ditch the nice but heavy Lemond Filmore. Anyone know the options? Pompino looks good, Condor do one but costs about £1600 so no chance.

Flatboy, it looks better now. Carbon fork, Ti seattube, and Ti Chris King headset, but it deserves all that. Next up is some bling wheels 😆

oooohhhh you bastard! want to sell it? 🙂

and yeah, agreed on it deserving the best. fair play, even a CK ti headset!

with all that on it, though, i would never let it out of my sight so it wouldn't be much of a replacement for my pomp. 🙂

It feels so good when you cleaned your Ti bike and it comes up as spangly(?) as the day you bought it. While your carbon bike of a lesser age is scratched like you've cleaned it with a sponge full of grit after a season.

theflatboy - would post a picture of Merlin but don't know how (incomptent).

Nah, never sell it. Like it too much.

of course. you got a more recent pic, then?

I like the colours that Ti has when it sits in the sun.

hello

my 2ps worth - i owned a beautiful ti bike - a certain bespoke brand - i got it much cheaper than retail - it broke - they fixed it no bother under warranty - so i like that - ti isnt indestructible - it can dent - mine was well dented from 5 years abuse in lakes / peaks / somerset etc but so are all my previous frames...

Would i get another at full price - not on my poxy salary at the present - if money no object then yes - its light / comfy ( like my steel bikes to be honest ) - maintenance re finish is dead easy - polishes up lovely = wont corrode or fade like paint.

Ridden steel / alloy frames in the past - in comparison Ti rides nice - its light and i suppose less snappy under load than ally but I think its ace... Not had much experience of carbon - not that interested - i like metal...

In summary - its a great material but is it worth the premium - debateable - would say its nice but have ridden a lot of nice and cheaper frames - but it should last longer..........

its a law of diminishing returns... plus you hate yourself when you whang it whereas a cheaper frame it doesnt worry you so much... a lot of ti nay sayers prob would love to have a go / own one and find out !

paul

mt i only just figured it out

- upload it to flickr or some other photo hosting site
- right click on the picture, click Properties
- copy the address
- come back here, click URL
- paste the address into the box that appears
- hit ok, then post, you're good

mcboo - come Monday I'll try to make that work.

make sure you do 🙂

I went for carbon over Ti, but really have to question if my carbon frame will be around in 15 years, and still be looking as good like a Titanium one would.

I think the "recent fad" for Ti is as a result of the Chinese frames being cheaper and therefore becoming main stream.
To ask if it's here to stay is silly, as is the point of why would you want a bike for life. The early bikes will always go through evolutions re geometry and discs etc, but they've been pretty sorted for a good few years now.
I am very fortunate to own a Merlin XLM, the Rob Vandermark built one. It's fine with a Talas fork from anywhere between 80-130mm travel, it's disk only, and runs a 1.125 headset, so what's to change??
I ride it far more than my other bikes, mainly in the Peak and N Wales. It's probably 4-5 years old now, and still looks brand new. If it does ever break, which I doubt, then it has the back up of a full lifetime warranty just like the Moots eg back up the page.
I have some nice bikes (fortunately) but if I could keep only one, it would be the Merlin.

Dave

Had my Global for nearly 7 years so no not a passing fad [img] [/img]

It's not a fad. Marin, Kona and Orange all featured Ti bikes in their range 10-15 years ago (Kona Hei Hei anyone?). The recent resurgence is more to do with cheaper manufacturing costs in China IMHO. (Lynskys apart)

FWIW I have a Moots Hardtail. I cannot honestly say that it rides any better than the steel(Tange) frame it replaced though.

Not sure if I read it 'right' but didn't the issue 51 review of the Whyte suggest that if a frame is well designed and built it doesn't really matter from which metal it is made ??????

[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/fanmanufacturers ][/url]

theflatboy and mcboo - is this right?

no it's not you twerp.

Yes, Hilldodger. I thought exactly the same. They seemed to be struggling to justify the extra cost benefit in the Whyte Ti 19, and as far as the Van Nicholas went it was a case of "Titanium bike with crap geometry = crap bike"

Well the Ti review has, strangely enough, put me off buying a Ti bike 😕 and go and have a good long look at a Whyte19 in old fashioned aloominum

[url= ]

if at first you don't succeed try again, if then you don't get it right own up to being usless and wait for further advice.

f..k it!

mt, you have to put the url for the image in the following format, without all the spaces:

[ img ] . [ / img ]

i could do it for you, but you must learn!

Love my 2 Ti frames (cross bike & ti456). Both are light enough and comfortable - the cross bike makes a great lightweight touring stead and winter roadie too. I ride it with mates on hard tails over not too testing stuff (south downs ways type riding) and I'm sure I get off better nick than I would have done on a alu framed cross bike. The ti456 needs no introduction.

I'd like a ti road frame now I don't road race. The carbon frame is super stiff for racing but quite punishing for long sportive type rides on questionable roads. The one bike I don't get is a Ti Pompino. Don't get me wrong, I loved my pomp (it now a flat bar gentlemans cruiser for getting the paper and mincing around the campus at work) but as a fixed you are never going to get proper downhill road speeds and climbing is always going to be compromised by the lack of gears that a few hundred grams of weight saving is not going to make a huge difference to. A Pomp is meant to be the grunt bike that is built up tough & cheap to take commute or winter training abuse, with slightly bigger tyres when out and out performance is not an issue. It's the bike you wash once a year on its birthday if it's lucky! Steel has to be the perfect material.

[url= ][/url]

no Im not getting it right so I'll get some work done instead.

mt do [ img ]

[ / img ]

Without all the spaces.

[img] [/img]

I'd hesitate to say ti was mainstream still, I think it's just a niche that's getting bigger and more affordable.

Always aspired to a ti bike back in the day, but even though I could afford one now I just don't feel the urge.

Maybe when/if my steel hardtail breaks.

>> Not a fad.
>> Not mainstream.

Oh, everyone has said that already?
Ti can be built into great frames, but the great Ti frames end up too expensive for the likes of me.
No one needs Ti, but if you're rich they're always there to tempt you! = :87)
It's good that Ti is no longer necessarily short for "race bike" and is being used to make good modern trail bikes, not that you can't have a bike that is both a race bike and trail bike but you know what I mean.

Oh, looking at that Pompi reminded me, the only bike of mine I wish was Ti is my old commuting bike, despite it being the bike that needs to be the cheapest to ward of magpies. It's my only steel bike that gets constantly scruffed up and eaten by road salt, my mountain bikes are fine.

What spaces? Sorry to be thick.