[Closed] Thrown off a train with a bike. How best to grumble?

We had a similar coast to coast experience... I won't write it all here (because it's massive) but if you're interested I wrote a blog about it.

The Train ****up Part One
The Train ****up Part Two

I managed to get the cash back for our tickets on the cancelled bit, but that was a bit different to yours.

Trains in Yorkshire are now almost a no go for taking bikes. I think northern don’t make you book them on, but there has been a clamp down on the ‘2 bikes per train rule.

Transpennine make you book them on 24hours before travel, max 2 per train. Not ideal if you are a commuter. (Official advice is to have 2 bikes, one at each end of your journey. Really.)

STW insta the other day showed people with dismantled bikes being turned away

The guards on the Carlisle Settle line are pretty good and I've only had one incident where one has refused to try to get my bike on.

I can understand wanting to keep the wheelchair space free. Although no-one requiring it turned up for that service, if they had, there would be no way of accommodating them without forcing a bike and passenger to disembark.

Yep, been kicked off a east midlands train due to them accidentally booking 5 bikes on a train with space for 4. Guard claimed I had "forged" my booking even though I showed them the online confirmation. I refused to get off(only had one stop to go to my stop anyway ~10 mins) but guard walked into carriage and told the people on the train (quite full) that the reason we weren't going was that I was refusing to get off (I was filming at this point as he was getting quite aggressive) East midlands claimed to have held a disciplinary procedure with the guard when I reported the incident but I witnessed a similar incident with the same guard a month later and he was equally unpleasant to another person this time.

I was also almost forcibly removed from a GWR train when I didn't have a booking (had spent 30 mins on the phone trying to book but they had system errors) Guard threatened to call the police and hold the train in the station and I said go ahead (at least 6 empty bike spaces and train less than 5% full) but the station attendant told the guard to stop being and £%"%!$ and I agreed to get off if the spaces were needed later. They now allow booking via Facebook which I have successfully booked while on the platform occasionally.

Other than that, over 9 years of using bikes on trains quite a lot I've not had a lot of bad experiences. Saying that I now own a folding bike for my regular journey as that was getting harder and to get on the section where they don't take bookings (West midlands).

I can understand wanting to keep the wheelchair space free. Although no-one requiring it turned up for that service, if they had, there would be no way of accommodating them without forcing a bike and passenger to disembark.

I know the trains the op is referring to. Where the disabled spaces are is a massive space that, save for at rush hour, you could accommodate 3 or 4 wheelchairs, AND 4+ bikes no problem.

Although no-one requiring it turned up for that service, if they had, there would be no way of accommodating them without forcing a bike and passenger to disembark.

which would be the sensible thing to do, put the bike on now and only take it off if needed.

Absolutely disgudting that the others weren't allowed on, espicially as there was space. Op do you have any pictures of the incident or of the guards grumpy face?, if yes then by all means go to the media, they love having pics to show alongside a story, the local rag and all the nationals and on every social media account.

So the company has a rule that only 2 bikes are allowed & you knew this as you booked them on. But you are grumbling that at least 5 weren't accommodated? I don't think you have a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining as they will just point out the above.

I agree with you that it seems daft but as to a complaint about the well advertised rule I think you are on a hiding to nothing unless the guard was rude or aggressive but that's a different issue to space for bikes on a train

I know the trains the op is referring to. Where the disabled spaces are is a massive space that, save for at rush hour, you could accommodate 3 or 4 wheelchairs, AND 4+ bikes no problem.

Fair enough. I'm guessing that a rule from above states no bikes in the wheelchair space regardless of the actual physical space. Northern certainly has some weird rolling stock presumably acquired because they were too outdated for the Russian rail network.

I must admit I'd consider that getting five bikes into the 2 bike area on a northern service seems to be as satisfactory outcome as could be hoped for if nine or ten cyclists turn up and try to get on a single service. I've never seen it done without causing an obstruction in the walkway.

Also I think we are supposed to be grateful that a train has even turned up...

Two bike spaces. You got more than that on and complain more were not allowed on?

Last Christmas I was on a train that was largely full of kids traveling back from Panto. There was a small group of pissed up football fans being really obnoxious. Not violent or aggressive, just really wide. Passengers took it in turns to ask them to be quiet, they would for a few minutes then booze would take over again.

The guard refused to speak to them or call the police to remove them. He suggested we move carriage (the train was rammed) then he suggested we get of and get the next train. He made it quite clear it wasn't his job to deal with it. My wife got quite frustrated with him and called him an idiot, he radioed for the police to have her removed from the train! You couldn't make it up.

Post on www.railforums.co.uk and you’ll get some good advice.

and another thing (slight thread hijack).

Given that trains always seem to be overcrowded, why do they still have big tables taking up room. Surely you could increase capacity significantly by removing tables and just having rows of seats like on an aeroplane?

Some Guards are just jobsworth D**ks.  On the train the other day, it was totally empty in the bike carriage apart from me.  Bike was clipped into the seat belt straps and tight against the railing and very secure.  But oh no, Mr Grumpy Guard insisted that I turned my bike around to conform with the sign regarding positioning even though it meant that my bike stuck out into the corridor more!  This is the first issue I've had with the Guards on my commute in 12 months of travelling.

So after that, when he asked for my ticket I pettily went through every pocket and rucksack compartment with deliberate slowness as he increasingly huffed and puffed before digging out my staff travel pass.  I know, very petty but his attitude rubbish.

Lots of agreement here that it felt unreasonable. A couple of OP's on the "you knew there were 2 spaces, so whats your problem, line" to which I'd say...

1. When we bought tickets, we were told- you'll be fine. So we bought in good faith from a ticket office.
2. There was- as another OP has said, plenty of space for the bikes on a really empty train. The wheelchair user section could have accomodated and additional 5 bikes and a couple of wheelchairs. And I'd have been happy to get off the train had a fleet of wheelchair users all turned up- because that would be the nice thing to do. There was loads of space- the guard just did not want to do it.
3. And yes the guard was abusive. To be fair the mixed group who were kept off were a bit pointy and upset too. Neither covered themselves in glory. But it was an avoidable confrontation and one that it would be good to flag for people in the future.

So after that, when he asked for my ticket I pettily went through every pocket and rucksack compartment with deliberate slowness as he increasingly huffed and puffed before digging out my staff travel pass. I know, very petty but his attitude rubbish.

I can see where your username comes from.

If I was starting work early I'd put my bike on the train from Hastings to Bexhill.

I would be the only person in the carriage with my bike in the bike spot.

One morning the guard put a leaflet on my bike. I thought it would be days out by train and bike. No, it was a leaflet saying that as this train reached London in peak time I couldn't put my bike on there.

Stupid stupid.

To balance it up a guard made people move their pushchairs when I took my bike on the train (scottish) because they have a bike specific bit on the carriage.

To balance it up again, the Virgin train staff at Lancaster on the way were super reasonable, as were the Arriva conductors in Leeds. I think this is part conductors personality, but also part a bike policy that is "2 bikes, booked in advance only" as opposed to a friendlier "we'll do everything we can to get everyone home safely"

Always amusing when you wheel your filthy, dripping bike onto the train and find a load of luggage stacked in the bike spot, with the owner looking smug and not moving it. Nice suitcases look better with a mixture of chain lube and mud on them anyhow.

Some great big-hitting going on here, especially those that didn't even read the OP, well done.

First C2C I did, I travelled on the Newcastle to Carlisle line. There was a pile of bikes stacked up inside when the train stopped (I think they also had a 2 bikes policy...), so the driver got out and took mine in with him. Massive difference between someone who wants to help and someone who doesn't.

I've had hassle from a GNER (*I think - whatever was before LNER) guard once, going from Leuchars to Edinburgh. Couldn't put bike on as we hadn't booked it (just bought a normal ticket at the station). Bike carriage was empty. We asked the guy if there were any bikes booked on before Edinburgh (none, as that was the next stop). But we couldn't because "Health and Safety".
I told him claiming that was the "dubious redoubt of the intellectual weakling" and walked off before my brother-in-law clocked him...

In the end we cycled to the Spar, bought a beer, drank it in the park and got the next Scotrail train home.

Scotrail are pretty good about the bikes actually.

I've only taken a bike of a train twice in recent years, Southampton to Warminster return in Nov 2017, departed Southampton ~0910 and left Warminster ~1200. Back then, I was a bit anxious about it, because I'd not taken a bike on a train for over 20 years. But I was able to book a reservation for the bike, albeit when I got on the bike carriage I had to kick several people off a folding bench to use the wheel clamp.Return leg was easy, the train was practically empty and each way is only ~50mins.

But since then, that same train that runs from Portsmouth to Newport (IIRC) has stopped giving cyclists the "security" of knowing they have a one of the two bike spots, you can no longer reserve a spot for your bike.

Even though I might be able to get my intended train, the prospect of having to wait for the next train because the bike spots were already in use, is an extra stress/anxiety I can do without. If I knew I could jump on a certain train and know I'd be ok with a bike, I'd be regularly using that train to Warminster... It's great 250-550 foot hill climbing road cycling country less than 3 miles from Warminster station, or you can ride just under 25 miles to get to The Mendips for a number of 500+ foot iconic climbs.

I've moved your post to the designated bike area.

Two bike spaces. You got more than that on and complain more were not allowed on?

The point isn't that the "rule" says only 2 bikes. The point is the rule is ****ing stupid. Cycle provision on trains in this country is absolutely pathetic & some guards are total jobsworths. If a train is 10% full then obviously it's safe to put a bike on in a non-bike space. Just use some discretion.

Massive difference between someone who wants to help and someone who doesn’t.

@Drac "I’ve moved your post to the designated bike area." I'm hoping you chuckled as you did so 🙂
Inspired sir.

I'm not sure if I feel better or more angry reading all these posts that match my own experience of taking a bike to Scotland and back last week (3 trains each way). I think the guard's approach/mood has EVERYTHING to do with how well you'll fare - either they want to help, or they don't. But it's a farce, and not being able to rely on a train for transport with your bike is a both a nuisance and a nonsense. It goes against everything that's being done to promote bikes as tourism in Scotland, and sustainable transport goals in the UK generally. But since it's all a nonsense, with different train companies having different rules, how about some STW hive mind activity here? If you can come up with some good suggestions, I can turn it into an article...a manifesto perhaps? Might I invite suggestions for:

- What a good national policy would look like. Ticketing? Bikes in bags? Booking? Guard vans? Off peak vs on peak rules?

- Top tips for what to do if you're faced with a 'there's no room at the inn' scenario. Stay calm and polite? Dismantle? Request a taxi? Find a bag?

Its always been a nightmare.

C2C whitehaven- Newcastle is doable. Guards are good. You can't book bikes on (or at least you couldn't) and the space is limited to 4. I've turned up and there have been 6 people on the platform with bikes but they've still go us on. Nervous part is that you then have to repeat at Carlisle so you might get stranded. I'd recommend the Watbike bus these days.

I've done a few trips on the eas tcoast mainline. You book, so you know you are getting on. There are only 5 spaces in the guards van so when 6 of us went down to London we had to get on different trains. Daft though as when you put the bikes in the guards van there are 5 racks and then enough space for about 100 bikes as it is an empty full sized carriage.

Its a a real shame as I'd use the trains more to ride but it's a right chew on.

The bag point is an interesting one, because there's generally no restriction on large luggage, so ironically if you turn up with a massive bike bag (which takes up more space), you'll probably be fine.

The issue with consistency is that the trains are not consistent - some may only have space for 2 on a busy train, some may have space for 10. Personally I think needing to book a space is a pain, it makes spontaneity much harder, or if you're riding some way to the station (rather than it being your home one so you can commit to a specific train).

I have no issues with bans on peak time trains not allowing bikes, but wholly agree that discretion is crucial, and everyone can get on far more harmoniously if there aren't jobsworth ****s working on the train!

Drac

Subscriber
I’ve moved your post to the designated bike area.

😆

I don't drive, and have been carting a bike around on trains since 1990. I've been refused once (a bunch of wheelchair users had beaten me to it). Things are better than they used to be - and cheaper (no £3 booking fee that didn't even confirm a space)! Guards are generally ok, cramming way more bikes in than they're obliged to. The odd dickhead - well, what can you do if the allotted bike quota's been met?

I foresee problems ahead with bikes getting increasingly long and tyre width increasing. I already have problems slotting in/hanging up my old skool size XL 26er in some designs of bike storage areas.

Nationally, bikes and trains is shit, which is a real shame as they should work together hand in glove – Trains to do the long haul stuff, bikes to do the transfers to and from the station. Sorted, joined up thinking.

I travel down to London and back once a week, 90% by East Mids Trains. To be fair to them, it’s usually painless. These days (been doing it for 8 years now) I don’t bother booking as the only way to do it without being at the station is by phone, and that’s an average of a 30 min call to get through to the right person. Very, very rarely indeed is there a bike space actually booked. The usual train I get down to London has a guards van (but no racks), and there’s usually a good few riders doing the first stop. Coming back its’ a technical “2 spaces only”, but quite often it ends up being 4 or 5 for the last stop or 2 of the journey. Never been an issue <<crosses fingers>>, and on the whole the staff are pretty cool about it all.

If I have to go the other way, then it’s Transpennine to Donny or Retford on a Pacer (joy!) so sit or stand holding the bike, then East Coast to KCX. That you DO have to book a bike ticket for – platform and train staff are quite anal about seeing the paperwork. Again – only available when I get to the station, at which point it’s a bit late too find out there’s no space (although not happened yet). East Coast trains tend to have a guards van again, with maybe 6 dedicated spaces. But you have to get platform staff to open it at each end of the journey, which is not always as easy as it might be.

I also periodically use the Hope Valley line, which is generally fairly relaxed – only times I’ve seen riders turned away is when it’s been packed. Sort of fair enough…

Part of me is quite glad that very few people use the available service as it makes life generally easy for me. On the other hand it’s sad that it’s made “not easy” to join the dots up. I certainly wouldn’t plan a ride that involved me riding TO a station expecting to be able to just buy a ticket and get me and my bike back easily, I’d have to ensure the train part happened first, then ride home.

STWHannah – Manifesto stuff?

All trains, nationally, to have a guards van/dedicated oversize luggage space where bikes can go, ideally on a rack (any item of luggage that can’t fit under the seat or in the overhead racks also goes in there, just like a plane –one of my pet bugbears is not being able to move for other passenger’s house-sized wheelie suitcases)

Bike tickets to be bookable in advance on ALL national train booking websites for ALL national routes. Just a click box, that’s all it needs. Wouldn’t object to a nominal (say 50p) booking fee, but at that point the train co WILL get you AND your bike to the end of the journey, no questions asked. (I’ve yet to have the joy of a rail-replacement bus service when I have a bike with me, but I can believe it’s only a matter of time).

Essentially you book a ticket for you and your bike. Bike goes in the guards van, you go in the carriage as normal. Sorted. Easy. (further joined up thinking would suggest the automatic seat allocation is for the carriage nearest the guards van, not the other end of the train)

I go Edinburgh-Sheffield every other weekend. I've only not booked a bike once and luckily wasn't challenged when I hung it up (I stuck an old ticket on it and they must have noticed it as they moved it, but didn't chase me). Staff are generally hugely interested in checking you have a reservation, less so unlocking the bike-carriage door etc when some whalloper hasn't bothered (got £20 back for a 5m wait for that recently).

if you turn up with a massive bike bag (which takes up more space), you’ll probably be fine.

Until they ask what's in the bag...

It's so bad in the UK once you've seen how good it can be elsewhere. In Copenhagen one in twelve train passengers has a bike with them, you can even take a bike on the underground with a (I think free) ticket, and you don't need a ticket at all for the bike within the CPH area, and I think it's still free outside in rest of Denmark, just need a ticket.

I once took my bike from Edinburgh to Thirsk, three rail providers, had to contact all three separately to book a bike on, gave up after ages on the phone with the first two but luckily very kind guard between northallerton and thirsk let me stand with it between carriages.

The train and bike situation has been fubarred ever since it stopped being normal to have a Guard’s van. To be honest even parties on foot with big rucksacks and tents can be in trouble for the same reason. Unless some services with old style Guards’ vans are reintroduced, the problem isn’t going away.

I’ve had a situation where I had booked ahead correctly for a train journey to Morcambe to do the Roses. At 6am as I was getting on the train, an entire peloton in full regalia showed up with apparently no concept that they might be a problem, and determined that they should get on anyway ‘because they were riding for charity’ but clearly hadn’t bothered to check basics like even getting 20-30 bikes on a single train at once.

I will say that GWR staff are almost always helpful. Just a pity about the woeful storage on the new high speed trains.

I don’t drive, and have been carting a bike around on trains since 1990. I’ve been refused once (a bunch of wheelchair users had beaten me to it). Things are better than they used to be

Anyone know what the Inverness to Glasgow bike on train situation is like?

I'm doing the Hebridean Way in a couple of weeks. On the way home I'm cycling from Ullapool to Garve then I've got a train booked from there to Inverness and I've got my bike booked on that OK.

For the Inverness to Glasgow leg I have a ticket booked but the booking site had no bike reservations available, nor were there any for days. Going to turn up and hope I can get on. Otherwise I'll be renting a car and driving back

So Scotrail recently upgraded our trains YAY!, except its now 2 bike spaces shared with wheelchair users instead of 8 bike spaces + wheelchairs.

According to my wheely friend getting a wheelchair on a Scotrail train is even more of a bawache than a bike as they need to book 24 hours in advance and hope the station staff actually appear to load them as bystanders aren't allowed to use the ramps. Then you have all the stations where only one platform is accessible!

Bike and wheely provision in the UK totally sucks and we need a centralised will from government to change that. Unlikely the the current muppets though 🙁

I can turn it into an article…a manifesto perhaps? Might I invite suggestions for:

– Top tips for what to do if you’re faced with a ‘there’s no room at the inn’ scenario. Stay calm and polite? Dismantle? Request a taxi? Find a bag?

Ring my wife. And put on a pathetic, whiney voice as I beg to be rescued.

Top tips - if you know the train is going to be busy, just hide in a throng of commuters and get on quick, hopefully the guard won't be able to get to you in time to throw you off. Dismantling is a pre-emptive action. There's no point wrestling with a maxle if the train is already about to leave.

Guards vans are long gone on most routes, I'm sure. Guards appear to be endangered, TBH. Driver-only trains could help though. Just jump on, there's no-one there to chuck you off!

Main points for the manifesto.

*The 1.30 Settle-Skipton train and the 2.30 Clapham-Skipton weekday trains are to be reinstated so I get a lie-in.
*built-in wheelslots are to be adapted to keep up with the latest tyre-size standards. Getting anything above 2.4 in there is hard work.
*Getting on at Hellifield with your beater BSO and throwing it up against my nice carbon fibre mince-machine is not good form. Damn you and your utilitarian approach to cycling!

So Scotrail recently upgraded our trains YAY!

Guess who got your old ones! Which, TBF, are a slight improvement on what was on the Bentham line before.

@BoardinBob Sorry, but it was this Inverness to Edinburgh train I was on that was a nightmare in both directions. Stand up for yourself, be pushy...pray to the bike gods you don't get my guard. Also, be aware that your bike is likely to end up being squished and squashed with a load of others, so don't be precious about the frame etc. Also, expect to have to remove your panniers/bar bag whatever.

Transpennine make you book them on 24hours before travel, max 2 per train. Not ideal if you are a commuter. (Official advice is to have 2 bikes, one at each end of your journey. Really.)

They changed that last week. You can book them on up to 20 mins before now via Twitter, WhatsApp, in person at the ticket office or by phone. Check out their Twitter for the post.

The bag point is an interesting one, because there’s generally no restriction on large luggage, so ironically if you turn up with a massive bike bag (which takes up more space), you’ll probably be fine.

At London Bridge I sat and chuckled when a chap, refused entry through the gate with his non-folding touring bike, nipped off to WHSmith for a couple of rolls of wrapping paper and some sellotape. Three minutes later the guards had to let him through carrying a large, gift-wrapped bike.

Not the cheapest way of getting too and from work if you had to do it on a daily basis...