Is it a deal-breaker for you? Why do manufacturers think it's a good idea? Will it take off as a trend, or will our refusal to buy it be enough to kill it?
To me it seems like a bad idea for many reasons; something that would likely have me write off an entire brand pretty quickly. Through headset at least looks reasonably tidy, but the through-stem style IMO looks like some four-bolt-eyed creature sucking up spaghetti.
Focus
Transition
I've worked on enough of them to say that i'd never buy one, to me it'd be like paying somebody for the pleasure of being kicked in the knackers.
Has put me off new road bikes, there are so many examples where it actually looks terrible as well as looking like a faff, and it's just extra proprietary parts which is a massive turn off too.
Didn't realise it was bleeding over to MTB, are the aero gains even worth it?
12 speed has enough trouble indexing reliably without tying the cables in knots, plus persisting with worn cables because it will be a sod to change the outer compared to the joy of merely internally routed. Ok, I'll get off the fence, it's a no from me.
Manufacturers probably like it because saves them from putting a few cable holes in the main frame.
I wouldn't buy one as it looks like a dogs dinner and will be a nightmare to work on. It also opens the head tube junction to the weather in a way that will allow loads of grimy water to run down to your headset bearings.
This is all speculation as I've never used one but at the rate I change bikes this idea will be dead and gone before I'm shopping for a replacement.
Nope. Pointless imo.
Provides a "eye sweet" way of making the cables disappear. From a bike tinkerer's perspective it's a headache. I'm saying evolutionary dead end on mountain bikes.
Am I right in thinking both those particular examples are ebikes?
Is there an assumption that ebike owners don’t do their own maintenance or that the bike will be back at the shop regularly and it will be professional mechanics working on them?
It would absolutely put me off for sure
I changed a headset on one last year.
Took nearly 2 hours, and a brake bleed. Thankfully it was Di2, so didn't need to re-cable/index as well.
I counted 19 bolts that needed either removing or loosening.
The originally planned replacement headset (same as the original) wasn't fitted in the end, i took one look at it and realised if i fitted the same PoS, i'd have to change it again this year.
So it's got a 75 quid headset, with stainless bearings, "proper" lip seals and about half a litre of marine grease slathered all over it.
I don’t like internal cable routing but not so much that it stopped me buying a bike. But this is a whole order of magnitude more stupid! One of the nice things about decent headsets is that they run smoothly for years with zero maintenance - why would you add holes and cables to mess with that?!!
its not for me.
would it stop me from buying a bike.... yup. As would a few other things.... super boost, no space for a water bottle.
Not for me - I'd rather have regular routing for brakes and AXS.
Stories of the outers cutting into the steerer tube don't exactly fill me with confidence either...
I really like internal routing on a frame but putting the moving portion of cables and hoses out of sight is just daft.
Smaller section doing the flexing and bending and no easy way to monitor condition. Don't get me started on the reduced sealing!
Absolutely no way!
Who designs these things? Do you even ride Bro?
APF
100% a dealbrraker for me. Stupid design. Stops you adjusting stem height, can't change stem, lets water into the headset and frame, just awful. Internal routing is dumb enough, this is so much worse.
It's a no from me. I wouldn't buy a new bike with it, and if a second hand bike happened to be like that then I'd probably go with external cables and some zip ties
The prick who came up with this idea will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
Who designs these things? Do you even ride Bro?
Even if they do, they definitely don't do any maintenance.
Future generations of riders will look back and laugh.
It’s a yes from me. Anything to get rid of the cables which always look a mess. Brakes don’t care about the routing they take because its a fluid and it can’t be hard to provide a sensible cable route for the rear mech. It should also allow manufactures to make lighter frames as fewer holes in a tube is always a good thing.
As a serial tinkerer and someone who has changed the stem and number of spacers on every single bike I've owned (long, long legs) I thought it was a bad idea when I first saw it on road bikes - but I hadn't thought about the issue of 'openings' for water etc, definitely a no-no for me.
Am I right in thinking both those particular examples are ebikes?
Focus one is a normal bike, they also do it on their ebike, I guess it might get rolled out across the range. Transition one is their recent ebike.
Done properly and IMHO neither of those examples are, I like it, my road bike has almost completely hidden cables and wires through the bars, into the stem and then down into the frame but with Di2 and hydraulic discs it's dead easy as friction induced due to severe bends in gear cables isn't an issue. If the same bike had mechanical gearing I imagine it would shift like a pig.
My MTB has so many cables on the front, 1 x gear, 2 x brakes, 1 x dropper and 2 x lock-outs it looks a bit of a mess if I'm honest with them all crossing over and going into the usual ports on the side of the head tube, once they're in there you barely see them again, which is nice, even the transition from BB to chain stays (all internal) is nicely done with a small exit point at the back of the BB and then straight into the stays - so personally I'm in favor of the headtube routing like on the new Scott Spark, especially when paired with AXS gearing and droppers.
Hmm. From a purely aesthetic point of view, I think the Transition looks great. No holes in the frame, cables not hiding the (ahem) head badge (shame Transition can't be arsed with a decent one)... clean lines, no cable rub, sweet. But maintenance? well, a different story that I wouldn't know about and never will, cos I'll never be in the market for a £8-10K eBike.
The Focus just looks crap and doesn't improve anything.
Both are utter stupidity. They look awful & the design used by TR (and Nukeproof/Vitus + whoever else is using it) just lets water & crap in. It takes internal routing to an even more stupid level.
It would be a 100% dealbreaker for me. I'm quite happy to have well thought out external routes, and frames can be made in a way they don't look rubbish, even if with most bikes now, internal is pretty good with internal tubes. There are still some bikes where you want to hang yourself with the gear cable you cannot route.
Also, both designs are f*cking useless if you actually race your bike - there is nowhere for the numberboard to go!
Yes, it's put me off buying a bike (new Scott Spark). Just seems like a solution without a problem to me.
In fact, one of the reasons why I went with the new bike that I did (Transition Spur) was that the rear brake hose is routed externally i.e. no need to disconnect the caliper or reservoir to route it through the frame. As someone who does all my own repairs and maintenance, I'll take simplicity and ease of service over looks any day.
Have it on my Orbea Orca, very nice design. The stem has a plate underneath which you can remove to expose the cables and remove the stem without unplumbing anything. All the steerer tube spacers are split so you can adjust the stem height easily.
Just seems such a tidy solution, wouldn't buy a bike without it now.
wouldn’t buy a bike without it now.
Not often do I snort with laughter at something on here, but that got me good.
You should have plenty of used bargains to choose from in future.
It's 100% a deal-breaker for me. Sure, I like the look, if you do 90% of his your work on your bikes (we are short of decent bike shops around here) it's way too much hassle and aggravation. I've got a Ritchey Outback on order which take the complete antithesis of this approach. The TR version has a bloody great hole in the headset cover that will make the bearings wear out (and require servicing) even more often! Just seems crazy to me.
Put a new gear outer on the Orbea eeb the other day. It's routed in near the headset and behind the battery mount and in and out of the swing arm etc.
That was enough of a pita.
Yeah it looks good but for me, ease of self maintenance trumps that.
It's a no from me.
bloody great hole in the headset cover that will make the bearings wear out
Good point! Headsets are absolute ****ing shit these days! - integrated ones anyway - not even a headset, just a bearing with no weather protection dropped into the frame. Add some holes in the top and the upper bearing will last even lesss time than the lower one! All the improvements to MTB over the years, as they've moved away from road bike standards and this nonsense they still can't sort out. I 've got a RaceFace external headset still in an old frame from 2010 and the bearing are still smooth! Ranty McRanty pants, out.
clean lines, no cable rub, sweet
There might not be any cable rub on the outside...
A friend was looking at the Vitus ebike range which has this style of cable routing, I joined the Vitus FB page to get some info and lots of posts saying it made it a ballache to work on, cable rub into the steerer and short headset bearing life with replacements being expensive and rubbish. Only the latter two I took notice off and warned him off.
For me, would 100% put me off buying a (e)bike if they had that routing.
At first I thought they reminded me of a catfish. But I think Cthulu is more appropriate for such monstrosities!
I'm finding it difficult to see how this works unless it has a Trek style internal bump stop as the cables would get utterly mangled if the bars got spun.
Plus the cable friction issues already discussed.
I'd imagine this will get filed along with wire tucking in the car world, makes for a clean look but for everyday practicality it makes everything unnecessarily complicated.
My new'ish summer road bike has everything hidden - Colnago C64 di2/discs - and I have replaced, bled the tubes etc and neatened it up from the way the shop left it.
My other winter bike - Enigma Etape manual gears/discs is all outside. I like them both.
On a mtb? no I can see why you would do this, but I guess its going that way...
I do wonder if the complexity and increased build time explains my Colnago being built so badly?
Even if you're not doing the work yourself, it's going to add a good chunk of money on your bike shop bill.
I’m finding it difficult to see how this works unless it has a Trek style internal bump stop as the cables would get utterly mangled if the bars got spun.
"To stop the cables getting damaged when the bars spin in a crash, the headset limits the steering angle to about 80-degrees from straight ahead. That's plenty for even the tightest switchbacks but, sadly, not for bar-spins." https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-ride-2022-focus-jam-a-sleek-trail-bike-not-an-enduro-bike.html
if a second hand bike happened to be like that then I’d probably go with external cables and some zip ties
Some cable guides attached with VHB dots would do the trick. Kind of thing that someone like 76 Projects would make. Trouble is you'd be going all-external on a bike not designed for it, so navigating the BB area could get tricky.
I guess you can't carry a tool in the steerer tube either, at least with some of these solutions.