[Closed] Noob pain question

My fiver says that your weight is too far back

Right foot on back pedal? Left footed?

Try left foot back?

It’s normal, on long descents. Swap your leading foot over every now and then, stand upright when you can. Don’t overthink and relax! Don’t forget to acknowledge other riders now too!
Hope this helps.

I'm right handed, but my left foot really wants to lead. On the road, I tend to have the pedals up and down rather than flat when descending; it's much easier for me to swap legs like that and give each one a rest.
I tried swapping them to help, but my body swaps back without me even noticing?!

I'm not convinced my weight is too far back; the position I'm in feels much better, more control, less on top of the bars as the trail steepens and speed builds... ...the bike I bought (no knowledge, just got offered this one when I asked around for an old bike to try mtb with.. after all an mtb is an mtb, right? ; ) ) turns out to be very much XC/race biased (2012 Trek Elite 9.8). It had a 7' 120mm stem on it, and I was far too far forward to feel safe descending, even just tipping into downhills (although it felt ok just riding - my road background I guess), so I've just fitted a 35' 90mm stem to bring the bars up and back... it's taken a lot of pressure off my wrists, which is good, but now I'm a bit more confident to gain a little speed I've hit this new issue...

Oh, and I always wave to everyone... even the local pensioners on their ebikes 😉

Maybe your lycra is too tight

Maybe your lycra is too tight

Ha! Ha!
oh, actually now you mention it...

It’ll come, please keep your pedals flat and your cranks horizontal to the ground when going down, as I said previously change legs and relax. Oh yes, wave and smile!

Coaching kids we teach them 'tall like a house' for the neutral standing position and 'small like a mouse' for attack. Your ability to stay in attack will increase with practice, but it's tiring. If you can keep neutral between the more intense parts of the trail (as appropriate) you'll manage better i think.

When i first started riding again about five years back i rode a fast berm filled blue track and was completely knackered halfway down, had to back off completely. All the same things you describe.

I now routinely ride it in just over 2 minutes and don't even think of it as hard work. I think you've just got to get used to the positions.

Not sure I want to ride that one in 2 minutes... it was a lot of climbing!

So hopefully mostly a dose of MTFU, and maybe practise riding right foot leading.

I think I may invest in some professional coaching, too... there's so much to this that I'm just kinda blagging and relying on decent brakes and tyres at the moment 😐

Your quads are just working in a different way when you're descending off road, particularly out of the saddle. It gets easier, and being more relaxed does help. My first Lakes trip of the year on longer, bumpier trails generally has my quads howling.

What sort of pain? Is it just burn from the latic acid, rather than a painful muscle/joint? If the former, welcome to the club! I’ve been mountain biking for 15 years but over the last few years have largely just been riding my gravel bike. However, at the weekend we went round a trail centre on a hardtail for the first time in 2.5 years, where you have no choice but to stand up off the pedals, and the burn in my legs (especially my leading leg) was next level. Legs just weren’t used to it. My OH was similar and he’s been riding bikes for 30+ years but likewise just hasn’t done that type of riding for a long time.

Keep going and you will get far more use to it - and do lots of squats and lunges off the bike.

Sounds like it's just a new position to get use to. My calfs use to hurt when I was new to MTBing and standing on long descents but quickly adapted.

Next time you're riding, check you're not tensing your legs. The bike should be able to move freely under you in case you hit any bumps.

Got a dropper post or are you doing a more old school arse-over-back-of-saddle position for steep stuff?  IME the latter can lead to your legs tensing up to stop getting stuck behind the saddle and/or finding your (baggy) shorts get caught as you come forwards again?    Having a dropper also means you can sort of clamp the saddle between your thighs for some bits which seems to transfer some of your weight to different muscles.   At least that's my very amateur experience.

You can do squats and hold them to condition your quads a bit but yeah, swap lead foot a bit and it'll come in time. Most important rhyming coaching cliche though is "loose as a goose"

You'll get used to it but trying to relax a bit when stood up might help. Also have you thought about foot position? Generally you want to have your foot a bit further forward for MTBing than you would road riding.

I'd also ignore advice to try a different foot forward, it's like trying to write with your wrong hand.

I’d also ignore advice to try a different foot forward, it’s like trying to write with your wrong hand.

Agree it's hard, but disagree that he shouldn't bother trying it. As the trail tightens up it's useful to lead into a corner with your outside foot forward as it opens your body into the turn. This can be effective on flat twisty singletrack just as much as steep tight bermy stuff. I don't really ride steep stuff anymore as I'm also old and scared, but in general I would be switching lead foot for each turn as I'm shifting body weight. I also find it helps get into a flow.

OP - sounds like you just need to get conditioned to it but for now definitely finding opportunities to relieve the pressure would help.

I’m right handed, but my left foot really wants to lead

i've been known to crash swapping feet, i'm so left foot dominant. you just have to break the habit when is easy then when you really need absolutely confidence you dominant leg can help you without being knackered.

get a singles speed. then your whole body will be knackered.

I’m right handed, but my left foot really wants to lead.
Hands, feet and eyes can all be different dominence.

 

How far "back" do you mean?
Have seen some people who are over the rear axle going down a gentle slope. You're not one of them are you?

I remember burning quads being quite a thing when starting out, especially on more prolonged rough downhill. There's one run round here which is basically riding a quarry rubble pile for about 25 minutes* which I think I still have DOMS from.

It's hard to practice when you feel you're about to die, but relaxing helps, as does moving more actively on the bike (pumping, etc) rather than just being stood static while you clatter over stuff.

But ultimately, yes, it's a weird half-squat position which your muscles just need to adapt to.

For me, my left foot much prefers to lead, and that's how I ride anything techy, but I do try to switch to right foot forward every so often (because I think it's a useful ability to cultivate, not so much for resting the trailing leg per-se).

* more like 2.5 minutes, but that is Enough, especially on a small 26er hardtail with 100mm travel noodle forks 😀

It’s hard to practice when you feel you’re about to die, but relaxing helps, as does moving more actively on the bike (pumping, etc) rather than just being stood static while you clatter over stuff.

Just to elaborate: both relaxing and moving about (for me) are totally defined by my ability to get the saddle out the way. If you don't have a dropper, use the QR to drop the saddle for downhill. If you don't have a QR, carry an allen key 🙂

Probably a few things here:

* sounds like your bike has a traditional short reach / long stem and so feels scary unless you’re quite a way off the back of it

* Have you got a dropper post - if not get one - you can stay more central on the bike but lower the at way rather than hanging off the back

* your legs are working harder in a bump absorbing way than on a road bike - it’ll take a while for your legs to get conditioned to it. I’ve been back mtb’ing since 2015 after about 10 or 15 years off. The last year or 2 I’ve been struggling a bit with what you mention - the leg for my back foot can pump up my quads - I think it’s because I’m riding harder / faster and hitting stuff with more force. I’ve found adding in a session a week of squats / lunges / jumping squats / split squats etc help with this. It’s not so much heavy weights but getting used to the frequent repetitions - I think jumping squats might be the more relevant exercise for this.

* coaching is a great idea - we can all benefit from this whatever stage we are in mtb terms. I’m aiming to have at least 1-2-1 coaching session per year at the moment. The last one showed up that the reason I corner better to the left than the right is that I was collapsing a bit on one leg on right hand bends. I’ve consciously changed that now and it’s been really good.

How far “back” do you mean?
Have seen some people who are over the rear axle going down a gentle slope. You’re not one of them are you?

I don't think so... I move my hips back and it helps a bit, then feel they need to go further and drop them a bit... and then the muscle shouts! I guess it is basically getting into a squat position, albeit I can do normal squats just fine. I can certainly get further and lower back when just rolling down the road, so I'm guessing terror/tension is coming in to it.
The coaching I'm looking says they use video to show you what you're doing, so I'll find out then 😉

If you don’t have a dropper, use the QR to drop the saddle for downhill. If you don’t have a QR, carry an allen key 🙂

I've got a QR, but don't tend to put it all the way down as otherwise I'm in trouble if I do hit a bit of uphill; a dropper is on the shopping list but after some coaching.

I'm sorta concerned that I'll go to the coaching and find out I've bought completely the wrong sort of bike for me (either through comments, or having a go on some others that I find I like more), so I don't want to spend too much on it first!

Bike geometry has come on a long way since 2012 tbh. A dropper post is likely the single best difference you can make to that bike - until you’ve used one and then tried to ride a bike without one you don’t know what you’re missing.

For a lot of people, a short travel full suspension 29er with trail suspension and modern geometry is probably a happy medium. Nothing too extreme in terms of long and slack - talking 65 degree headangle / decent stretch (standing - so the reach measurement) with a short stem / nice steep seat angle etc. Doesn’t need to have bling components all over it - mid range stuff now is very good in terms of brakes / finishing kit etc.

Don't worry about having bought the wrong bike - you've bought a bike, that's all. In 2012 some people were looking at your bike and worrying that their 2004 bike was going to spontaneously combust, but they didn't. Geometry changes but they still have two wheels and go up and down the same hills.

Coaching is a great idea, and if they tell you you need to buy a different bike, find a different coach! The more you ride the more comfortable and confident you'll become. Once you figure out what kind of riding you enjoy the most you will figure out what kind of bike suits you best, then think about changing.

Slightly left-field, but what sort of tyre pressure are you using? I wonder if it's too high and some of the problems are coming from transmission of vibrations / jolts etc.

get a singles speed. then your whole body will be knackered.

Fixed if you really want to be beaten up!

Almost certain to be excess tension due to terror😊. I’m imagining is what is happening is you are getting into a too low tensed up crouch position. As many here will say on bumpy bits you have to learn to ride “light and loose” to enable the bike to pass over the surface without bashing you and itself. Maintaining weight over the centre of the bike through the BB whilst “remaining fluid” is key. Unless it’s extreme having the latest bike makes little difference. The latest gear is more about fine tuning and isn’t a substitute for basic technique. Definitely worth getting coaching if u can afford it . Following good riders and trying to copy them also works. I’m nearly 60 and still have great fun on “old fashioned bikes” and keep up with my mates on much newer gear so don’t get put off if you don’t have a top end bike. Happy biking 😊

Contacted a local coach and should be out for a day's training in a couple of weeks' time:)

Good to hear it's not just me, especially when starting/returning.

Tyre pressures - I'm about 95Kg, and I've not gone tubeless (yet), so yes they are relatively high (although less than half of my road bike's!). I did let them down a bit the other day after skittering across the first set of rocks (my little previous riding has been much more forestry than mountain), grip felt better so confidence/speed increased a little, then my thigh started up...

Another recommendation for us seniors who like to mountain bike is doing some weight training. I think it’s important especially as we age and loose muscle and put on weight. It also helps to loose some fat. Upper body and shoulder work is important and I also do squats for the legs. There are some great tutorials on U Tube.

Very ex roadie here, my experience is that mountain biking involves much more technique than road riding, so coaching is the quickest way to having a good time.

Practice swapping leading foot when it's easy, I'm naturally RFF, but as I concentrate on riding LFF a) I get better at it and b) my RFF muscles have had a bit of a rest before instinct in the heat of the moment puts my right foot forward.

One thing that works for me is to let the terrain inform my choice so leading foot on outside of corners as above, also if the trail is traversing a slope the 'downhill side' foot leads for me.

One other thing that can help is really drop your heels when descending, you feel much more connected to the bike which may help reduce tension.

Don't forget to laugh every time you cock up, it is meant to be fun 🙂

Out on my road bike today (beautiful but windy... and when I say windy, I got a new PB without pedalling down the big hill from my house! Hit 48.6mph - I'd have pedalled if I'd've realised I was that close to 50 😉 ).
(Although it may have been my slowest ever ride back up, an hour or so later...)

Anyway, I tried the mtb stance, and it takes a little longer but I get the same pain on the road too, so it's definitely me needs to get used to it, not really so much about the bike or track, I think.

I also tried right foot leading, and I notice that I still put all my weight/balancing effort through my left leg, which is why it tends to then circle down and I automatically bring it back up forwards. I'll have a chat to the coach about this next week.

I would say that it is much easier to concentrate on and feel what it happening with my body/weight/stance etc on a nice long, relatively smooth, road downhill - even on my road bike - than it is on tight, bouncy, bermed, rocky single track!