[Closed] Three bike thieves discuss the best locks and how to beat them

No one? I thought it was interesting anyway.

Despite the article I still bought myself a new Krytptonite New York 😀

INGRATS... I will but just later, cheers for the link

Not just you - it was pretty interesting!

I bought the NY today for my sons bike...for school when he locks it up. And my £40 pub bike whilst at the pub.

Nothing new. Good video on how with the right tools (and they're not expensive to get), most of the fancy expensive locks are easy to defeat....

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Gone-in-60-secs-theft-video-2012.html

And "Sold Secure" is just an insurance thing. The locks aren't necessarily that secure, just they meet a standard that the insurer is happy about paying up with when your bike is stolen and the lock is broken.

Yup. And Thatcham is genuinely just a confidence trick. I can't remember now which of the two it was, but one of them was still giving out top grades for bic-pickable locks a year after that went public.

The lines "“But you’d probably run out of batteries between legs,” I said, repeating what other editorial testers had suggested." and "Men’s Journal claimed that the silicon coating on the Knog Strongman caused their blade to buck enough to “send most thieves scrambling.” are really telling tbh, bike mag tests sometimes try really hard but they keep repeating myths and nonsense, attacking locks with the wrong tools then declaring them good.

As is the fact that the bike thieves don't mind telling you what works and what doesn't, because they know it won't change a thing. You don't need an impervious bike lock really, unless it's being stolen to order, because there'll be someone round the corner with a nice bike and a cable lock that I could bite through.

Interesting, but not I suppose surprising really. It seems that some thieves now are cutting through the frame (5 seconds with a junior hacksaw) and then selling the components. It's better for them anyway as the components are not traceable in the same way the frame is.

I don't really leave bikes anywhere out of site, but a decent U lock through the frame, rear wheel and chain then onto a secure object like a lamppost is probably the best you can do.

Really interesting article, thanks for posting.

I found that interesting, cheers.

It's not a bad article, and shows how easily most locks can be defeated, but for a true guide to locking your bike securely, look no further than the [url= https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/144109/ ]LFGSS[/url] thread.

It seems that some thieves now are cutting through the frame (5 seconds with a junior hacksaw) and then selling the components. It's better for them anyway as the components are not traceable in the same way the frame is.

I wouldn't leave anything outside & out of sight in the UK these days, riding somewhere that bikes need to be left out means the cheapest bike that works.

As bad as it sounds once they are home so long as the insurance requirements are met I'm not doing anything much above that and common sense, the article shows that if they are coming for your bikes they will get them, better then do that with out meeting you.

By the way, Pedal Pedal have the New York STD for £43.
Bit cheaper than the £60 that wiggle were asking!

http://www.pedal-pedal.co.uk/bike-accessories/bike-security/kryptonite-new-york-mini-1154.html

Alternatively you can get the Onguard Brute for £21. Has a 16.8mm steel shackle and dual locking points, very similar to the top Kryptonite/Abus locks, and a whole lot cheaper. They do weigh a tonne though.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnum-ONGUARD-Bicycle-Security-LK8001/dp/B00AWAJYF0

I can't remember the last time I locked a decent bike up. Now I am older I have the luxury of a separate commuter.

Cheers for that link pleaderwilliams, i was just looking at locks last night. I've personally never locked my bikes up when out n' about in the town where i live (kirkcudbright - rural galloway) but i guess it doesn't hurt to carry a lock and secure it if i'm leaving it outside a shop or a mates house. Better safe than chasing some thieving ned down the road and greeting over a £4k loss, although i seriously doubt anyone from our small town that knows me would touch my bikes but it's the opportunistic thief wi a van thats worried me most. Got the following two locks for way less than one of the locks i was looking at yesterday and from all accounts they are pretty decent, £33 for both of them.

[img] [/img]

Onguard Mastiff chain lock 8-10mm Hex Ti shackles

[img] ?format=500w[/img]

Onguard Pitbull mini with 4ft braided cable

Got to be better than using nothing at all eh? 😉

Got to be better than using nothing at all eh?

I don't have insurance so that's nothing i need to worry about 😉

It still baffles me that anyone would lock up an expensive bike in such a way, or location, that a thief can work on the locks without raising suspicion.

My bike cost me less than a £1000, and I hate to leave it locked up and unattended for more than a few minutes.

Would you lock a wad of cash to some railings and expect it to stay there?

Bit sobering how many people feel that they can't ride a decent bike or can't let it out of their sight 🙁 that's the social impact of crime I guess.

FWIW I do regularly ride a decent road bike about for transport, commuting and errands. And that often means locking it up out of my sight for long periods.

It's a risk obviously. But I feel that if I was forced onto a crap bike or felt that I couldn't ride at all then that would be letting the terrorists win.

Fortunately my local town centre has about 20 bike racks with literally 100s of bikes parked at almost any time up to about 10pm.
I use the kryptonite NY thingy and make sure to rack up next to a half decent bike with a worse lock than that.

"It still baffles me that anyone would lock up an expensive bike in such a way, or location, that a thief can work on the locks without raising suspicion."

Its been well proven that 99.9% of the public will turn a blind eye to someone obviously nicking a bike

Any recommendations on a heavy duty chain?

Somafunk - could you let me know what the Onguards are like quality wise when you get them? I have four ground anchors in the garage but use a poor quality lock and chain, bit silly really! They look good and for the price will get a couple if they are decent enough. Cheers.

Will do chunky

Its been well proven that 99.9% of the public will turn a blind eye to someone obviously nicking a bike

I once spent the best part of 30mins 'stealing' my own bike in a town centre @5pm after I snapped the key off in the lock. Not one person said anything and I was even passed by a police car.

Most annoyingly of all, the week afterwards someone nicked the wheels of that same bike locked in the same spot with a new lock 🙁

Yeah the guys in the article don't seem too worried about passers-by or being seen.

He doesn’t worry about passers-by stopping him. "People say, 'That your bike?!' I say 'Yeah,' then come back later"

And the last guy doesn't even seem phased when the rightful owner of the stolen bike shows up.

It must have been back in the late 90's when somebody chained up a nice bike at Uni to come back out in the morning to find just the frame...

Me, 1998, Lancaster uni.

chunkymonkey - I've had one of these for a year or so of occasional use.
Really like the ring method of locking, it means I can get it through 5 bikes (both ends allow the same method).
Also comes with loads of keys which is welcome.
Bonkers heavy though - I've cycled with it over my shoulder for a couple of miles, but I wouldn't do any more.

[img] [/img]

OnGuard Mastiff Cinch I think it's called.
I bought it off ebay for £3x

Very happy with it.

Edit: I bought it from this seller:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2013-Onguard-Mastiff-130cmx10cm-Cynch-Loop-Chain-Padlock-Key-Bike-Lock-Lk8019lp-/130869330098?pt=UK_SportGoods_CyclAcces_RL&hash=item1e786b80b2

philwarren11 - Member

Any recommendations on a heavy duty chain?

Almax or, whatsit, Pragmasis. Hopefully some others now too but those were the killer app last time I was up to date. They are enormous though and only as good as your anchor. Even now most chains can be cut with boltcutters as fast as you can lock them with the key but a smaller chain could still deter a more opportunist thief. All the sold secure etc for chains is bollocks, just for insurance and marketing.

Don't be fooled by the "keep it off the ground" thing btw, it can't hurt but it makes little odds to most attacks, it only stops attacks which don't work on good chains anyway like sledgehammers. Unless you can get it several feet off the ground ie chain bike well off ground?

Apparently hexagonal chainlinks only really work on new blades in croppers- once they have a bit of use, they grip fine on the hexes. But still, can't hurt.

On the subject, does anyone know of a really long, inexpensive lock? even a cable'd be OK, I'm not looking for real security, just inconvenience- for locking bikes inside a car. but it's got to go under the back seats and over 2-3 bikes so it's got to be long, the sort of thing a shop'd use probably.

Almax only really suitable for home use.. far too heavy to carry around - at least mine are!

why would no-one intervene or call police if a bike's obviously being stolen (that statistic 99.9% seems wild)

Bit sobering how many people feel that they can't ride a decent bike or can't let it out of their sight that's the social impact of crime I guess.

That's a perception of peoples perceptions though (and extrapolating from the fact that most poeples perceptions of crime are worse than reality!). I'm pretty sure most STW'ers are out of sight of their bikes at this very moment, and most are probably unlocked in a fairly rudimentary shed. And even then you see a stolen bike thread once a week or a couple of times a month.

why would no-one intervene or call police if a bike's obviously being stolen (that statistic 99.9% seems wild)

Same reason people* don't stop to help someone having a heart attack. It's not that they don't care they just assume that if something was wrong someone else in the crowd would intervene. Same reason you might not pick up a £20 note (or a bag of sweets) from the floor of a subway, if it really was a £20note (or somethig actualy edible) then someone else would already have picked it up.

Most trail centers probably have £50k-100k of bikes on racks, leant agaisnt buildings or genberaly left fairly unguarded at any time over the weekends.

*don't say you would, it's a well demonstrated phenomena.

True enough tinas, but fear of theft (whether a perception or reality) does tend to be cited by people as a reason that they don't use their bikes more for general transport.

I liberated a mates stolen bike from outside a busy railway station on a Saturday morning. A few people clearly observed what we were doing as I heard them comment to their other halfs.
One member of staff asked us for our names and went to get the BTP but we didn't stop for a chat.

Yeah, tbh even a lightweight chain is a hassle to carry. And if you're away from home chances are you're chaining it to something that's less secure anyway

fear of theft (whether a perception or reality) does tend to be cited by people as a reason that they don't use their bikes more for general transport.

True, but there's not much you can do about perception. And are we talking using £2000 bikes for transport to be left in the city center, or £100 commuter bikes and leaving them in a secure cage at work?

I'm (percieveing) that the theft of £100 commuters from city centers is pretty opertunistic. No thief is going to risk getting caught for a cheap commuter whereas they might for an (unececeraly) expensive bike locked in the same place. I've never had my commuter nicked from a city center bike rack and it's only ever secured with a basic halfords cable and padlock or my nice bikes nicked from the works bike cage, just a case of sensibility.

True, but there's not much you can do about perception. And are we talking using £2000 bikes for transport to be left in the city center, or £100 commuter bikes and leaving them in a secure cage at work?

If folk are being forced to ride nasty £100 commuters because they can't risk a decent bike then that's still a pretty nasty social impact. And bear in mind that some folk only have one bike and they may consider £100 a lot to spend.

The thing is though people are quite happy to leave £10,000+ cars unattended all over the place.

Partly that's because car security is much better these days, but I believe that a big part is that car theft is a "proper crime" whereas bike theft is seems to be considered trivial, even when the bike costs more than a car.

Can't agree with thisisnotaspoon re: assisting someone with for instance a heart attack - most people would or obtain assistance.
Plus not everyone would pick up a £20 or something edible .. it's not their's so why (different debate).

the fact is 99.8% wouldn't intervene or call police about a bike theft in process is a wild statistic!

Bike theft is about the lowest of all crimes in the book. Insult someone in the street and they report it and the police may turn up. Someone's nicking a bike and you report it and they won't bother.

Stealing a bike is a very low risk to a thief. Unlikely anyone will stop them. Police won't turn up to a report of a theft. Very easy to shift the goods with no trace.

Unless it's locked up inside a house, then it's a much higher risk and more serious crime breaking into a house. Plus the risk of someone being inside.

Most times the police actually catch the bike thieves is when it's someone prolific and well known that they've been keeping an eye on, and even then it's probably a drugs raid they do and in the process find loads of stolen bike stuff.

Car theft is treated higher, but generally it's difficult these days for a thief to shift a stolen car, not to mention hard to actually steal them anyway with immobilisation etc (unless it's a modern BMW with electronic keys that are easy to nick 😉 ). Most car crime is stealing stuff from them, not the car itself. Though cars are nicked for a getaway or joyride, but they aren't looking to profit from the car, just use it and probably crash or burn it out somewhere.

flybywire - Member
the fact is 99.8% wouldn't intervene or call police about a bike theft in process is a wild statistic!

A fair estimate I bet though. People do tend to think there's probably a good reason why that guy is fiddling with the bike lock, like he's just struggling with it, or if it's suspicious that yes someone else will deal with it. More often though they don't want to get involved. They're busy and it'll mean time calling the police who even if they did turn up and catch the guy may want you as witness and that's a whole load of extra hassle, if not also a personal risk. I'd rather take try to take a photo and chase the guy off, but that risks him pulling a knife on you.

If I was a bike thief, I'd put on bike kit and steal mountain bikes by the dozen from races and trail centres. But there'd be a lot to be said for hitting offices too- you could have walked away with any number of £1000 cycle-to-work bikes from my old office, with no more than wirecutters.

Wasn't their a bike thief who was caught by a group of mountain bikers at one of the trail centres doing exactly that.

I'm not sure how many times he fell down the stairs before the police arrived. Clumsy fellow.

chunkymonkey :

Somafunk - could you let me know what the Onguards are like quality wise when you get them? I have four ground anchors in the garage but use a poor quality lock and chain, bit silly really! They look good and for the price will get a couple if they are decent enough. Cheers.

They arrived today, i didn't realise just how heavy they'd be - especially the Pitbull mini u-lock, although i use the term "mini" as in its descriptive blurb rather than actual physical size and heft.

The combination lock at first appearance looks quality and very well made with an easily fingered (Fnar…Fnar) combination barrel but on closer inspection IE : when the lock is open and looking into the female barrel you can see the rotating lock mechanism/numbers is plastic so a few carefully placed hammer and chisel blows or a hammer/screwdriver would shatter the rotating numbers and then the lock would pull open.

The chain is very heavy and seems to be well made, good full length covering so nae chance of damaging a frame/wheels etc.

So not a great lock for total piece of mind but decent enough for an easy to use (nae worrying bout lost keys) about town lock. If i was buying again i'd forgo the combination lock and buy the version with a tiny shackle lock. In fact i may decide to take a cutting disc to the combination lock and buy a small shackle for the chain instead.

The Pitbull Mini U-lock is well engineered but very heavy - I certainly would not want to carry this using the supplied frame mount on my Ti framed bikes, in fact it does not fit the seat tubes on any of my bikes - I'd only use it on pig iron steel tubed town bikes.

Well protected locking mechanism with sprung jaws so it would be awkward to drill, the shackle is very heavy and plastic sheathed, i tried to cut it at the very bottom of the exposed section with a tungsten carbide coated hacksaw blade and it did succeed in marking the surface but i imagine it'd take quite a while to cut through so i'm happy with that - I was tempted to try the angle grinder with some of my Krononflex cutting discs but i suspect i'd cut though it very quickly so i didn't bother satisfying my curiosity.

The braided cable is well made and entirely sheathed in plastic, quite light so i'll use that with the combination lock if i'm heading over the town or to the pub - to be honest i stay in the arse end of nowhere and i've left my bikes sitting outside the shops or mates houses for hours and i've never had a problem - everyone knows everyone else (small town mentality) but that's not say i haven't been complacent with my trust.

Better to be safe n' secure than losing a bike.

[img] [/img]

Pen for an idea of size.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Sprung loaded lock jaws

Many thanks, Soma - I'll be putting an order into Amazon tomorrow 😆