Eh? Who's said that?
3. Do you give the same advice on prevention and recommend helmets for pedestrians and drivers/passengers.4.If not, why do you feel head injuries in these groups are not worth being given the same professional advice reserved for cyclists?
This ^^^ and similar comments about drunks etc. Why stop at singling out the advice given to cyclists? What about everyone else who wears a helmet? Lets include them on the discussion too.
Why the hell is helmet wearing even a debate on a cycling forum?
I mean, seriously, why? Surely common sense would say that if you are going to crash/fall off and hit your head, having some protection there would be better than none?
Ultimately, that's what it comes down to - regardless of whether the crash was caused by a car, yourself or anything else - having head protection makes sense.
personally i'm not planning on crashing, falling or hitting my head, so i have no need for a helmet.
v8ninety - MemberNorthwind, as a medical professional, I can conclusively tell you that it wasn't your helmet that saved your life, it was your big, thick skull.
I concur.
Ultimately, that's what it comes down to - regardless of whether the crash was caused by a car, yourself or anything else - having head protection makes sense.
Evidence justin bieber doesn't wear a helmet and gets a head injury.
1. You have never treated a motorist, pedestrian or anyone else in the with a head injury.
Don't be silly, of course I have. Not sure I see your point.
2. Are cyclists the most common group for head injuries? All stats suggest they are only a minority.
Cyclists within the population as a whole are a minority full stop, but its a minority that I am part of, so why increase my risk of injury needlessly?
3. Do you give the same advice on prevention and recommend helmets for pedestrians and drivers/passengers.
No, but I would suggest that wearing a seatbelt may be a good idea, and walking of a cliff or across a busy motorway would generally be regarded as a 'bad thing'.
4.If not, why do you feel head injuries in these groups are not worth being given the same professional advice reserved for cyclists?
Yeah, you are obviously right. while we're at it, lets get rid of airbags, crumple zones, 20 and 30mph speed limits, pedestrianised areas... in fact any measure previously introduced to reduce the chance of injury to motorists and pedestrians.
For the record, I don't agree with compulsory helmet wearing, for bikes or even for motorcycles. I don't even care if you wear a seatbelt. It matters not by the time you meet me, just a matter of patient history, and maybe more challenging patient management. (or maybe just a case of covering with a blanket and filling in some paperwork, which is much easier) I'm all for personal choice and responsibility. Its up to you. I've ridden a motorcycle lidless through Arizona. It was my informed choice, and I had the capicity to make that decision, and it was fun.
I am not advising anyone whether they should wear a helmet or not. I'm just sharing what I do, and why. From the things I've seen, I have decided that a helmet has the potential to make a real difference, and thats enough for me. Wheres the downside? Why NOT wear one? You could say that you don't intend to fall off, but I don't think anyone does... You can be damn sure that my one year old son will be brought up never even considering not wearing a helmet.
BUT, if I don't ride with you, or you're not someone I care about, I REALLY couldn't care less about what interesting and inventive ways you think up of increasing your risks of injury. Like deviant says, You keep me in a job...
Here is a question: Your head is precious, traumatic injury to it can quite easily be serious, potentially life threatening and difficult to fix, unlike most other parts of your body that generally bounce well and sometime snap but will heal/can be fixed. You enjoy travelling faster than the human body was designed to, maybe surrounded by metal boxes that travel around many times faster, often driven by idiots that aren't paying attention. There is an easy way of providing a little additional protection for your head that neither breaks the bank, nor is incredibly inpractical or performance reducing. [b]why NOT wear a helmet?[/b]
well put.
I've never been in a car crash. But I still always wear my seatbelt, and buy modern cars with airbags and what-not.
I've never crashed or been knocked off my bike. But I still always wear a helmet.
It's about mitigiating against the worst-case scenario.
A serious head injury sustained whilst cycling may be unlikely, but the consequences are immense.
If something as serious as a head injury may be preventable, then why not take the precaution - if it reduces the likelihood of my young children growing up with a disabled* or deceased Dad then it's a no-brainer for me.
(*of course, there are numerous other injuries I could sustain that could leave me disabled, but if I worried about every possible eventuality then I'd never get out of bed in the morning)
Here is a question: ... why NOT wear a helmet?
Because I make a risk assesment of the activity I am going to undertake and for the vast majority of road cycling I am happy that I don't require a helmet and therefore I choose not to wear one. if the risk factors alter i.e off road, risk of falling increased for whatever reason I'll reconsider my desicion. To paraphrase a later poster; there are numerous other injuries I could sustain that could leave me disabled, but if I worried about every possible eventuality then I'd never get out of bed in the morning.
Why do people so keen on free choice and live and let live always try to convert non-serial helmet wearers?
Having seen the effect of head injuries on a couple of friends I usually wear a crash helmet.
One of them had a bad bike crash (ancient el-cheapo helmet failed) and one fell over in a swimming pool.
Slurred speech, memory loss, loss of concentration, unable to walk any distance, unable to ride a bike. I wouldn't want that.
They both got better and are now mostly fine but still very subtly different.
My thoughts are with the family and friends of this poor woman and their tragic loss.
Re car safety, there again some lack of knowledge being sprouted. You have more chance now of surviving a crash that before would have killed you outright. However the type of injuries you get now often mean slow painful death or painful reconstructive surgery to lead a less than normal life.
People just assume that 'safety' features ie helmets, air bags etc mean they will be ok, when there is no evidence to prove it.
And yes I wear a helmet but no I don't think it will save my life if I have a bad accident.
someone has died every year since 2008? 😯
I do and many other non-compulsion people do too. The thing we're arguing against is being [b]legally forced[/b] to wear one when soooo many other groups get so many more head injuries. Forcing drivers and pedestrians to wear helmets would save lots more lives but no-one is even considering that.why NOT wear a helmet?
A "[i]sense of security[/i]" is way over rated.
I make a risk assesment of the activity I am going to undertake and for the vast majority of road cycling I am happy that I don't require a helmet and therefore I choose not to wear one
Free country and all that, but it still hasn't defined why [b]not[/b] to wear one.
They're not uncomfortable, expensive or in any way restrict your cycling. Yet if a boy racer is doing a dodgy over-taking manouvre around a blind bend, that [i]could[/i] leave your family one-down.
Yes, helmet's are only good for sub 30mph incidents, but that can be all it takes.
Sorry, I'll stop ranting now.
I agree it shouldn't be a legal requirement though. If you don't have the common sense to save your own life, its Darwinian.
[i]I make a risk assesment of the activity I am going to undertake[/i]
I think what you probably do is decide if it 'feels' safe rather than review all the peer-moderated medical evidence, anecdotal evidence and accident statistics for the routes that you;re proposing to ride?
It's not a risk assesment, it's a 'do I feel confident enough on a road bike to not wear a helmet' assesment.
I'm all in favour of choice but I really don't understand why people choose not to if they have a helmet next to the bike. If it's uncomfrtable then get another lid, if it's comfortable then why not just put it on?
Having seen the effect of head injuries on a couple of friends I usually wear a crash helmet.
So do you wear one when in a swimming pool, and given your anecdotes, if not why not?
[i]. If you don't have the common sense to save your own life, its Darwinian.[/i]
But probably not in the way that you imagine though. The ladies get impregnated by some virile risked taking stud who doesn't wear a helmet, and then get's some cautious helmet wearing lesser male to raise it as their own.
But it's the helmetless rider who's genes get carried on to the next generation 🙂
I really don't understand why people choose not to if they have a helmet next to the bike.
Meanwhile I really don't understand why people choose not to wear a helmet when they go out for a walk or a drive in the car when there is a helmet conveniently at hand. Have any of the fanatical helmet advocates yet justified why they don't do that?
[i]Have any of the fanatical helmet advocates yet justified why they don't do that? [/i]
It's not about being fanatical, it's about realising that there are things that ytou can do easily in a relatively high risk activity that make things safer.
Most car drivers wear seatbelts and the injury rate from accidents has reduced as a result. No one describes them as 'fanatical' seat belt wearers, they're just being sensible?
Pedestrian head injuries (not alcohol related) are fairly low?
So do you wear one when in a swimming pool and given your anecdotes, if not why not?
The risk factor in the swimming pool turned out to be drinking a (single) beer in the jacuzzi 🙄
On a bike, I wear a helmet. In a pool, I stay sober. Will this make me 100% safe? Of course not. But a broken brain isn't the same as broken ribs so I do what I can to take care of it.
it's about realising that there are things that ytou can do easily in a relatively high risk activity that make things safer
Like putting on a helmet when walking or driving - so why don't you?
fanatical helmet advocates
ah stw and the open unbiased question.
TBH i dont care if people wear helmets and for those who dont I hope your heads are as thick as they appear to be 😉
[i]so why don't you?[/i]
because I'm not a bloody fool.
and the reason you don't wear a helmet on a bicycle?
and the reason you don't wear a helmet on a bicycle?
because I'm not a bloody fool.
So Junky, presumably you wear a helmet when driving and walking?
mm wonders if we can have a grown up debate with a chance of persuading each other
Can I presume you have had a a head injury form not wearing one as seem to be repeating yourself a bit 😀
[i] and the reason you don't wear a helmet on a bicycle?
because I'm not a bloody fool. [/i]
well, you see, that's the point at which our opinions diverge quite substantially.
I think I'll walk away from this thread now, there's no real point to it - everyone's just standing at opposite ends of a car park shouting at each other.
the '[b]why not[/b]' people will never win the '[b]why[/b]' ones over and vice versa.
well, you see, that's the point at which our opinions diverge quite substantially.
At least my opinion is a rational one - you insult people for not wearing one when doing one activity, but consider that only a fool would wear one when doing another activity where a lump of polystyrene would actually be more useful.
the 'why not' people will never win the 'why' ones over and vice versa.
Indeed - the people who refuse to wear a helmet when driving or walking really are obstinate.
''when her bike failed to negotiate a bend.''????? Surly it was the women which did not negotiate the bend,not the bike.
I see so many road bikers cycling on the road with no helmets, its barmy, although if she was wearing a helmet, its just one of them things, it does not state wether it was external or internal head injuries,Most people die of damage that can not be seen due to the brain slamming into the skull and bleeding and swelling internaly.
Someone jumped on my head at the local pool, bust it wide open, loads of blood in the pool dragged out by lifeguards ambulance to hospital and stapled back together. [s]Ever since I've always worn a lid when swimming[/s]So do you wear one when in a swimming pool, and given your anecdotes, if not why not?
🙂
Well putAt least my opinion is a rational one - you insult people for not wearing one when doing one activity, but consider that only a fool would wear one when doing another activity where a lump of polystyrene would actually be more useful.
I see so many road bikers cycling on the road with no helmets, its barmy
Less barmy than walking or driving with no helmet.
aracer - apologies I shouldn't have resorted to name calling.
I still don't understand why no one questions wearing a helmet on a motorbike around town at speeds less than 30 but are adamant that bicyclists are invulnerable and thus don't need one even though they probably average similar speeds. Anyway, that's all from me.
"I make a risk assesment of the activity I am going to undertake
I think what you probably do is decide if it 'feels' safe rather than review all the peer-moderated medical evidence, anecdotal evidence and accident statistics for the routes that you;re proposing to ride?
It's not a risk assesment, it's a 'do I feel confident enough on a road bike to not wear a helmet' assesment."
I make an assesment based on my riding skill, my general roadcraft skills, where i'm riding, the prevailing conditions, the nature of the activity, who I'm ridin with and other factors. Risks identified, outcomes considered, risk mitigation measures considered Good enough for me.
"It's not about being fanatical, it's about realising that there are things that ytou can do easily in a relatively high risk activity that make things safer."
When did cycling become a relatively high risk activity?
"I'm all in favour of choice "
"Why do people so keen on free choice and live and let live always try to convert non-serial helmet wearers?"
actually I think there are a few motorbike riders who do.I still don't understand why no one questions wearing a helmet on a motorbike
I think in some states of the US you don't have to wear a motorbike helmet. I was in Hawaii more than 20 years ago and saw a few guys on hogs without helmets. I believe the argument is that you can hear better thus it's safer. I don't know how, as a big enough motorbike engine drowns out everything else, all my pals with big bikes wear earplugs !
I don't wear a helmet if I have to go out in the fields on my motorbike to go and find someone. No legal requirement, low speed, no risk of collision with other vehicles - low risk. Protection appropriate to the activity and risk.
wwaswas
a relatively high risk activity
You can't just declare all "cycling" a high risk activity.
why not aracer/TJ can declare all walking, beer drinking or car driving to be high risk or all to be higher than all cycling if they wish to get pedantic and I suspect they might
This sort of discussion has no place under a such a thread title. Start another thread if you wish to continue your helmet debates, which I think are a valid topic for discussion, but someone died, we don't know the facts, and it somehow seems disrespectful to a fellow cyclist.
Mick
[i]I still don't understand why no one questions wearing a helmet on a motorbike around town at speeds less than 30[/i]
When the motorcycle helmet laws were introduced, many did. But I guess the bulk of bikers nowadays come from a generation who didn;t experience riding bikes before compulsion, and I guess you're less likely to question something if it's 'always been that way' for you.
Bikes and helmets go hand in hand... Just like climbers and ropes!!! SIMPLS AS.
why not aracer/TJ can declare all walking, beer drinking or car driving to be high risk or all to be higher than all cycling if they wish to get pedantic and I suspect they might
I'm not sure why it's pedantic to point out the logical inconsistency in your argument. There's a huge difference between suggesting that driving and walking are higher risk than cycling and suggesting any of them are high risk - using my comparison as justification for your absolute is frankly ridiculous.
I can't believe the petty crap on here and think we should leave this post now as it has a real bad vibe...
you should all show some respect and spare some thought for the poor woman and her family please!
another helmet thread??
v8ninety + deviant - i think you guys summed it up perfectly as to why you should really wear a helmet.
it's quite obvious that there will always be riders out there who dont feel the need to wear a helmet...for whatever reason.
i used to be one of them...then i went into my LBS whilst thinking about investing in a helmet and saw a helmet on display that had impacted against a dry stone wall...it belonged to the shop owner and had he not had the helmet on...i might have had to permanantley use another shop.
i may one day have an accident and break a leg/arm/collarbone etc... which i can live with as i'd still be alert enough to scream/writhe about in agony...which from a first aid point of view means my injury is not life threatening...
connecting my skull with tarmac/concrete/stone/kerbs/trees/vehicles etc...i very much doubt i will be screaming/writhing about in agony.
i dont agree with making it compulsory for cyclists to wear a helmet...especially adults, who will have enough personal responsibility to make their own informed decision over wearing a helmet...but what i would be in support of is to make it compulsory for those of the younger age say below 16
