[Closed] The poll about electric gears

Oh no, please! can you imagine it on here, 'what bleed kit for my gears?'

I agree, electronics is daft.

But I think they'd work better than cheeky cables without being as expensive and involved as electronics.

[b]K[/b]eep
[b]I[/b]t
[b]S[/b]imple
[b]S[/b]tupid

solution in search of a problem

You use cable brakes tj? 🙄

pointless bit like SIS 😉
I dont really see the need tbh bu they have to sell us something with 2 x 10 etc

Is a battery, motor and wire lighter than a cable? No.

TJ, I think you've either called me stupid, or offered me a kiss. Really not sure which upsets me most!

Electronic gears will be excellent (as those that aren't totally pigheaded about it will know if they've tried Di2) because-

-it'll be more reliable
-neater
-it shifts excellently
-it'll need less looking after.

Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly doesn't understand it. It's not lighter, it is better.

All valid point which would also apply equally as well to hydraulics.

that's not what's under dispute tho Luke.

The poll missed out an option: Got a Shimano electrically shifted hub gear bike maybe 10 years ago.

Have a google for Shimano SE-4S35, electronic shifter unit with push button for up/down plus automatic modes. Mrsmidlife's mum has had one on a "Real Cycles" hybrid/town bike. Combining it with a roller brake made taking the back wheel out to fix the puncture fun. I put a slime tube in and hopefully I'll not have to do it again often.

Hydraulics will not shift anywhere near as well as electronic. Nowhere near.

Because this is just a stepping stone on the way to wireless shifting.

And you know his how?*

* "becuase I say so"/"it's obvious" do not qualify as answers.

Onzadog - no - the concept of electonic shifting is stupid

Electronic is incredibly fast and precise, and has the benefit of auto-trim and never needing adjusting because it's electronic, while hydraulic will have the lag from shifter to mech, just like cables, and will need adjusting manually. Which is no good when you're trying to grind up a hill in the wrong gear because your gears have just gone out of whack on the last descent.

If your gears go out of whack on a descent...you need to find a decent mechanic LOL!

fair enough re other points, tho I think hydraulic would be quicker than cable as spring tension could be lower.

It was reported when the electronic dura ace came out that shimono had intended it to be wireless but had some reliability issues so stuck with wired rather be beaten to market by campagnolo. I doubt they will have given up on that idea.

Electronics to keep my gears shifting quickly and perfectly all the time? yes please. Its like a dropper seat post, heavier, but better. Not sure about hydraulics, if they give people as much grief as (some) cheap hydraulics brakes do then definitely not, plus who wants to bleeding even more hydraulic stuff? Not me.

Far less heat and pressure needed for hydraulic shifters than brakes.

Surely the problem with electric anything is that at some inconvenient time, the battery will die. What then?

TJ you are wrong. Two push buttons, one up, one down, just plain works. Whether it's your choice because of weight/field servicibility/price/tradition, that's personal choice. The auto mode on the hybrid isn't too bad either (on the road, no good off road since it couldn't react to variations in speed over undulations).

Surely the problem with electric anything is that at some inconvenient time, the battery will die. What then?

I suspected a long time ago, this was the reason for Shimano to get more into dynamo hubs, they'll do you an XT level one with disc brake mount these days.

midlife crashes - you miss the point. I know the interface is simple but the mechanics and electronics is not. You needs series of solenoids / stepper motors, a gear train or levers, a battery and a brain to run it. This is where the complexity is.

Will it be able to compensate for wear in the pivots? How will it cope with mud? water and salt ingress?

Oh please God, not this again...

Electronic is vastly superior. Cabling routing becomes irrelevant, you can route the whole thing internally, it never needs adjusting, never suffers from sticky or rusty cables and it's quicker to shift. You can also have subsidiary shifter buttons for use when sprinting or climbing to avoid having to reach to the hoods.

And all this crap about "what if the battery dies?" The battery lasts MONTHS. If it dies mid ride, you'll have been ignoring the warning light for 500 miles in which case, you're too stupid to be allowed out unsupervised.

Edit for TJ: it copes fine with water, mud and salt. Pros have been using it in CX races and in the TdF and numerous other races in shit conditions. Works fine, better than cables.

Yes TJ, it's complex. Some people like complexity inside to give simplicity outside.

I see you haven't chosen to send your message this evening by carefully punching holes in a stack of cards and loading them into a PDP11 through a CR11 card reader the size of a fridge. Your PC is more complex than that. Progress.

So, If I fancied lectronic shifting on my bike, how much is it gonna cost me, today?

The purists booed Bob Dylan when he went electric but it didn't do him any harm. I am no early adopter but best keeping an open mind about new stuff IMO

so as the pivots wear? the stepper motors and associated gear trains wear?

Pros get stuff serviced and replaced regularly. we dont

I like the idea of improving on gear shifting, especially if it means I don't have to 'set-up' mechs in the present sense.

My only concern with wireless is what happens during a race on the first lap when you have 300 people all bunched up all using Shimano wireless shifters? I am sure this will be addressed, but we had wireless keyboards and mice at the last place I worked & sometimes halfway through an e-mail, it would all disappear as someone on the opposite desk had pressed delete.....

TJ, I can only assume from your position of stating everything as a FACT that you've ridden Di2, or similar, extensively.

You have, haven't you?

I put in a lot of miles on Dura Ace Di2 in 2010. It was superb. But then, as you've also ridden it, you surely know that, don't you?

How much then? Anyone?

CFH - note the use of questions. Not stating facts asking questions Lots of these ????????????

The only fact is that it is added complexity.

The system compensates for pivot wear and realistically, how much do pivots wear anyway? When that happens, it's new mech time regardless. It even learns if you bend the mech in a crash, it resets the shifting automatically. Stepper motors? Seriously? It's a tiny electric motor driving a spring. Like a watch. Do you worry about that? No, it just works.

Compensates for wear - that is clever. when that happens with a normal mech I just keep on riding. 20 yr old mech on my bike that works fine

How much will it cost me though?

Statement;

the concept of electonic shifting is stupid

Statement:

solution in search of a problem

Do you suddenly know more about this than the Shimano boffins? I rather doubt it.

Have you ever ridden Di2?

Like, will I need to save up?

ultera groupset with these - 1.5 k

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra-di2-groupset-internal-wiring/

top of range is 1.3 k without but you can get it for 800 ish as well
So a lot basically
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/gsg/road-track-bike/shimano-road-groupsets?sub=conf_GS_SHR&type=RIBMO&tmp=_CAR

it would have been easier to google like i just did that keep asking 😀

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

You use cable brakes?

I do...

I wont in a couple of weeks when I've built my BFe though

I know someone that built-up Di2 in a Scott 899 flavour. The cables were tucked away nicely inside the frame and the battery inside the seatpost, which is more than enough to defeat the good ol' British weather.

It's weird watching it shift, though - very Terminator...

So TJ you can compensate for mechanical wear? Using indexed shifters?
But an electronic system can't?

Anyone else, feel free to quote me, he has me on killfile.

kill file does not work anymore al