[Closed] the F***ing Alps ?

jealous you don't get to the alps much?

Breathe man!

In general I'd be inclined to agree if sticking to general trails, although a lot of the trails there include bigger and faster stuff for 4-5x the duration than you ever find in the majority of the UK so it's not entirely true. And people tend to push themselves more when they're on holiday in the alps, making full use of the facilities. Shocks heat up more, more riding compressed into 2 weeks than you'd normally do in 2 months etc etc...

Poor rant. Based on poor assumptions. No swearing except in title, 2/10.

Is a 30 minute descent in the Alps the same as 2 minutes in UK for suspension?

Coffeeking - what about not sticking to "general trails" (whatever they are?) in the UK?
Duration of descending is the only difference (although 18 runs of Ft Bill is entirely possible in an afternoon in Scotland)

2/10 is more than I'd expected 🙂

I think your an @rse

There's nothing different about the stresses components will experience here in the UK to the Alps

So, where in the UK are you likely to find such highly sustained, high speed descending over rocky terrain ? There isn't any, thats why we all go to the alps. Add in the fact that you're going to be doing it repeatedly all day for 5,6,7 days or more and you're getting some way to seeing why a week in the alps stresses your bike.
3 out of the 5 bikes that went to the alps with us in 2007 came back with significant damage. One frame, terminally damaged.

I'm calling this one more of a troll than a rant.

So, where in the UK are you likely to find such highly sustained, high speed descending over rocky terrain ?

Ft william/Glencoe 😉

3200 meters down to 900 meters approx 25k long, I can't find these trails in the UK. For sure trail centers are changing this but the riding in the Alps tests the rider and the bike. FACT.

GW have you ridden there? If so did you push yourself?

If the Alps was easy on kit why do most designers of kit and bikes get pro riders to test it there....

Or infact anywhere in the uk with mountains.
It's not like people ride down the proper mountains in the alps anyway, just the hills.

Ft william/Glencoe

Then take your bike up there, ride the downhills 8 hours a day, for a week and see how ****ed up it is by Monday.

So basically what you're saying is that the opinions of people on forums should be taken with a pinch of salt? 😉

Pugwash - Yes, lots and a little too far 😳
I ride the same here as abroad, that's kinda my point.
Where does your info about testing come from?

someone started a thread like this in the alps and everyone laughed.

5-6 hours a day for a couple of weeks of CONSTANT vibration, braking bumps, jumps, dust, mud, rocks, uplifts, etc etc.

It causes all kind of problems you'll never ever expect. I've experienced:

-Cassette lock ring working loose
-Rear wheel losing tension every run
-cable ties wearing through and causing the front brake hose to get in the front wheel
-freewheels destroyed within days

Nothing catastrophic I know, but stuff which you'll just not see over here because the abuse is just so relentless. And to give a real idea of how tough it is, I had bleeding blisters on my palms within a couple of days!

glenh - megavalanche goes from the summit of pic blanc, is that not a mountain? Do you live at the top of a himalayan mountain or something and everything else is just a hill?

I'm getting scared of trashing my bike in the alps now reading all this - it tends to get a bit of beating here on normal routes.

"Where does your info about testing come from"?

Talking to the people who make the stuff actually.

People might ride the same in the Alps as they do in the UK, but a combination of the speeds attained and the terrain in the Alps is a lot more punishing on kit than equivalent UK riding.

mega course goes up aswell as down, so where's the difference in just doing continuous runs of Ft Bill?

Mike - aye, down to duration of riding tho isn't it? I wouldn't say the UK has a lack of high speed rough/tech terrain. I can only ride my DH bike for a total of around 1/2 an hour - 45mins in a full days UK DHing.

So because the stresses of riding in the UK are for a shorter period of time, does that mean if you only ride bikes in the UK, they're more likely to last longer for the same amount of vertical descent?

GW - I have to agree with you. If you tend to be a light rider and not break stuff in the UK, I'd suspect that the same is probably true when you go to the Alps. There is almost a perception that some how riding in the Alps makes riders into hard core downhill legends. Not necessarily so. What I suspect is that if you have a tendency to break bikes, you'll break bikes no matter where you ride as two broken Santa Cruz Hecklers and a Santa Cruz Superlight ridden only on UK trials from my past will attest. All Alpine riding really does is expose your bike to similar stresses over a more extended period of time.

As for there not being big mountains to ride in the UK, I can think of many 3000 foot plus descents that last for at least half an hour of sustained technical riding.

Cheers

Sanny

If something hasnt broken on a trip to the Alps I would count that as lucky. or you ride like a gayer.

grumm: here is a mounatain in the alps:

Here is a hill:

http://flickr.com/photos/hairy_matt/2668279192/

I can think of many 3000 foot plus descents that last for at least half an hour of sustained technical riding.

And do you then get in a lift and start another one half an hour later, continuously, for 8 hours a day, for a week ? I'll answer for you. No.

A trip to the alps is hard on your bike and you won't replicate it in the UK.

YAY!! Sanny's back!! 😀

the voice of reason 😉

nah, i agree with OP.

we often go to 2000m and descend to 500m. 1500m is a good 45 minute ride down, sometimes more sometimes less. the set ups that we are riding here aren't much different to what people in the UK are riding. the biggest difference is that the brakes are the wrong way round. ok, i run larger volume tyres but those i had in the UK done the job here too. i only changed as they were wearing down. maybe you see more 200mm front rotors but can't really think of much else.

i was riding my sanderson HT with 120mm up front and keeping up with guys on big bad ass fullys. now riding my alpine and leading out in front as long as i know the trails.
i ride with people on 80mm HT to 160mmFS. everyone gets down in one piece. sure things break but who's to say they don't break in the UK either.

the equipment we buy and use should be able to take what we throw at it (within reason). a lot of the riding i used to do back in the UK never really tested the bike, forks or even me - i lived in essex.

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and that is to 2000m without an uplift. unless slogging up with the bike on your back counts as an uplift.

oh, nothing broke that day, or the day after, or the day after that.

even if you assume you ride every day for a week whilst on holiday in the alps, spread that week out over two months and i've not had any breakages and i ride minimun twice a week (well, was before xmas).

J

GlenH, here's another view of that hill. 😉

[img] [/img]

The vast majority of UK riding is pretty tame in comparison with alpine descents, on scales of speed, technicality and duration. In theory all riding should be the same, but in all honesty most of the UK riding is what I call general trail riding - trail centre-like stuff, boring motorways interspersed with technical sections. Alpine descents generally are tough, technical and hard from start to finish. Things break due to descent duration, continuous vibration etc. Most people dont have access to the sort of scottish descents that equate to similar to alpine ones, and certainly wouldnt do 18 times round it. Other than wearing out, here's my list of breakages when mountainbiking:

Home, nearly 18 years of riding:
1x Wheel - incident with a large rock.
1x Bars - caught a tree with bar-end.
2x Tyre - glass.
1x Rear mech, embedded in a wheel, which needed re-lacing.

Alps, 6 weeks total:
Cranks - two pairs, inc carbon cranks which snapped during a drop on a downhill course.
Big ring - mawled by a flying rock.
Front wheel - demolished on a root.
Brake pads - numerous.
Rear Shock - blew seals on last run of the day
Hope Mini - overheated rear caliper and damaged seals
Front forks - seals failed.
Freehub - pawls chipped, slightly odd - possibly a fail anytime item.
Punctures - countless.
Tyres - 2, ripped sidewalls.

If you attack alpine routes slowly then sure, its no different to the UK, but in the UK your average speed is a lot lower. In the UK you may do 30mph for 10 seconds, slow back down and corner etc, in the alps you have 2 mile stretches of 40mph, followed by 20-25 for 30 second batches too and fro between switchbacks. Average speed is higher, average impact speed is higher, meaning forces are higher on average.

So a mountain has to be pointy? How pointy exactly? Is there a pointiness measurement scale? Does that mean that in Scotland the Cuillin of Skye are mountains, whereas Ben Nevis is a hill because it has a flat top?

Scruff - I rode purely DH for 2 weeks in the Alps this year and broke nothing (unless you count 1 puncture and two completely worn out rear tyres) - I'd consider it lucky too, on the same bike the following week I folded my front wheel in half at innerleithen in a compression/rutt I must've hit a thousand times. as a comparison, the same DH bike set-up usually costs me on average around £150 to repair (mainly Dinged/flatspotted rims, the odd mech/hanger and bent a few cranks/chain devices among other parts) after the one weekends racing at ft William each year.

OMFG! snow arrrrgh!

we ride in snow. infact we ride on snow whenever the ground is covered in snow. sometimes we ride down the ski pistes for a laugh. nothing broke.

oh, and i've watch a few maga vids and would say that along as no-one crashes into you and takes you out you should get down in one piece.

prehaps things break more readily in the alps because people do not worry so much about maintenance as they would back home. end of day, get the beers in, next day get up and go. whereas back home they have more time to fettle and potter about with their bikes and would notice if huibs were loose, cables wearing thin etc etc.

Sanny - Member
As for there not being big mountains to ride in the UK, I can think of many 3000 foot plus descents that last for at least half an hour of sustained technical riding.

They're not really indicative of typical UK riding though Sanny, and even those that do get to ride those kinds of UK trails might not necessarily be riding them regularly.

The vast majority of UK riding is pretty tame in comparison with alpine descents

i've watch a few maga vids and would say that along as no-one crashes into you and takes you out you should get down in one piece

Heh heh heh. Maybe.

I think we're going round in circles on this one.

I'll forget any actual experience I've had on the subject and just go with what the OP thinks.

>So, where in the UK are you likely to find such highly sustained, high speed descending over rocky terrain ? There isn't any, thats why we all go to the alps<

Whistles nonchalantly...

IME of riding mountains in Scotland most of the damage is caused by water/shit/grit/heather (ripping mechs /concealing ugly big rocks.) They don't see too much of all that in the Alps do they 🙄

Well if you riding on your normal UK trail bike it will not be as beefee as a DH bike, so a trail bike in t'alps may break a bit more easy than a DH bike, if you are using same trails, yes?

Plus ridign all day in heat on harder trail makes yu more tired so you take poor line choices, ride a bit less finnessy whatever.

Last year I smashed a rim, Del totalled a wheel, Jims crank snapped, Cockey-wide-boy-geezers we were with had some bits break iirc (including a cracked jey crack'n'fail).

However I think the baggage handlers do as much damage as riding the things...

-Cassette lock ring working loose

Happened to me in the UK

-Rear wheel losing tension every run

Also happened to me here

-cable ties wearing through and causing the front brake hose to get in the front wheel

That could happen anywhere. I split a brake hose in the UK - in my garage in fact, testing the brakes after a bleed.

If you're gonna be sensible (I know, this is STW) the only conclusions are:

Typical riding in the Alps is harder than typical riding in the UK
There are descents in the UK that approach the scale of Alpine riding
A lot of intense riding in one go causes bike problems

End of thread.

As an XC/Trail rider I didn't find the routes in the Portes du Soleil any more technically challenging than something like the 7 Stanes. However in preparation for this year I have up the discs from 180/160 to 200/180 and now have a Pike with 20mm TA up front. As a trail rider I found the routes much faster, steeper and loose. As for damage to bike the D2D this year did more damage! 😮

Alpin

Nice pics. Where did you take them?

Mike

Absolutely right. Few folk do ride the big mountains when compared to the number of mountain bikers there are. However, the trails are there and they can be just as challenging as a lot of the stuff I've ridden in Europe (Swiss and Austrian Alps).

Returning to GW's original point, if a rider minces in the UK, they are just as likely to mince abroad. When it comes to seeing how well kit lasts, I always take a keen interest in the experience of friends who live and guide in the Alps as an indicator of what works and what doesn't.

Ultimately, things will always break and wear out. Last year's trip to Switzerland saw the shock bushings on a brand new Commencal wear out in a few days, a hardcore Ti hardtail snap at the disc mount (not a Dialled Bike BTW!) and saw several rear mechs get ripped off amongst other incidents all in the space of a week. More ride time equates to more time for things to break. C'set la Vie!

Cheers

Sanny

scruff - Member
Well if you riding on your normal UK trail bike it will not be as beefee as a DH bike, so a trail bike in t'alps may break a bit more easy than a DH bike, if you are using same trails, yes?

Plus ridign all day in heat on harder trail makes yu more tired so you take poor line choices, ride a bit less finnessy whatever.

As an experienced alps visitor, may I suggest that if you intend to use chairlifts and ride mostly downhill, why not leave the pride and joy (yr bike that is) at home, and hire a proper mountain rig from someone in Morzine or wherever. You save on the hassle of dismantling yr bike, save on transport etc.
As for damage, you will do 6 months damage to yr bike in one week if you use the lifts and ride hard, compared to riding in the UK.
This only applies to agressive riders, of course.

What's the deal with hiring a bike though - what happens if something breaks, do they just give you another one of fix it for free? The prices look pretty steep to me.

Hi Sanny!

The thing is sanny is that slow all descents take him a least 45 mins to come down.

C'mon the gingers!!!

IM(limited)E the damage caused riding alpine stuff often depends on the type of component. ie. last year in Verbier all of the people with but light weight bikes had problems (narrow xc rims, conti superlight tyres, maverick forks), as they did in Spain the year before and Morzine a few years before that. On the trips I've done nothings broken except for some old style hope minis that didn't work very well - they didn't actually break. I've bust up more stuff in the UK but that's due to chance mainly (mech into wheel etc)

by the way, some prime willy waving going on in this thread - well done!

The Alps trails do less damage than those in Sierra Nevada IME. More smooth sections in the Alps. :o)

I partly agree with the OP. You will break stuff at a faster rate in the Alps due to the amount of riding that is fitted into a small space of time. Most breakages are down to riders not checking their bikes often enough. Every days riding out there is equivalent to a month in the UK for most people, so it needs the equivalent attention. Also riders going there with bikes in poor condition.

I was out there for the whole of last summer and fitted in in excess of 60 full days riding with uplift. In that time my DH bike cracked in a place I'd broken it before, couple mechs/cables, about 6 tyres, couple chains and one pedal. I'd usually break a similar amount in a normal summer just riding in the UK doing alot less mileage.

I've also ridden technically harder UK trails than Alpine ones (champery WC track included)

The champery track is NOT technical, it's just steep. There are loads of alpine trails that are ALOT harder technically than the champery track. However many of the proper UK dh tracks are alot harder than you'll find in the alps.

There's nothing different about the stresses components will experience here in the UK to the Alps

Living in the alps and having spend 4 years in UK let me tell you one thing you are just plain plain wrong.
Here shimano HT II bottom bracket are the panacée, singlespeed is a swearing, and I have yet to see one fox that had the stanchions worn out.

Most of the stress/use put on a component in the UK comes from the mud/weather conditions. Most of the stress/use put on a component here comes from the toughness and the length of the descents.

Then I think it come to the rider. I don't brake stuff, neither in the alps nor in UK. Put it on the fact that I weight 61kg, or the fact that I have learn to ride in the alps while I was student and hence couldn't afford to brake/change loads, but generally I do not break stuff. I wouldn't consider myself slow either (well that was the case before 4 years in UK). However stuff wears out faster due to "normal use in the UK". Thing like bottom brackets, chains, headset and pads last much longer in the alps than in UK.

18 descents of Ft Bill is not an afternoon jaunt, that was over 6 hours of continous riding and ascending by an extremely talented rider in an endurance event. Most mortals would struggle with 1! 16 descents is the same as going down Everest.

Devs, I'm well aware how long Ft william is, I've done 12 runs of Fort William in an afternoon myself 😉 and a skinny wee mate did 16 at the Endurance thing. (I didn't go)

Solamanda - Aye, your right about Champery, I've ridden far more technical descents in the alps than Champery too (no good at remembering trail names tho :oops:) but the steepness of it does actually make it technical - I love proper steep stuff and found the track a blast but was surprised to see/meet decent DHers I know from the UK race scene having to sesort to walking down much of it. 🙄

Depends how you ride... if you ride flat out DH and break stuff at home and ride flat out DH in the Alps you'll break more as you down about 3months of riding in a week. My trails are pretty rough and technical, the Alps trails are similar but straighter and faster, so stuff breaks more. But most breakages are due to wear and tare... that rough bearing on your swingarm suddenly falls apart and you have no replacement on the eve of the Mega Avalanche....

sanny.... Mutterberg behind Bludenz in Austria.

cheers

J

Who cares?

I wonder if some of the damage comes about due to physical deterioration of the rider on long hard descents? If your attention wanders at the wrong time line choice goes out the window and at this point the law of murphy starts to come into play.
Haven't been to the alps yet, it's on the tick list though.

GW having a rant on a forum now theres something new?
its comments like this that killed uk-mtb & have dwindled no,s to about 6 people.

Yeah, GW, hope you're happy now - having killed off MTB in the UK 🙄

Lol, I rode 2 weeks in the alps and snapped my shock bolt, I rode 1 uplift day at cwm carn and ripped my rear mech off into my spoke, tore both gear cables out and pulled a goodridge cable out of the lever, then in penmancho i bent a xtr shifter and m4 brake lever and blew my forks. I would have to agree with gw on this one.

I can't see that the alps are much different apart from more riding because you generally get taken up instead of riding up.

So unless you ride DH on your XC bike why worry.

Your risk of having a tumble will increase however, as you're riding for longer periods of time and generally all gravity assisted...It follows then that the bike is more at risk as a result.

Take a bike that is mechanically sorted.

4 days there last year and all I broke was a gear cable, a saddle, a rim and a tendon in my shoulder.

shortbread_fanylion its another forum mate that he posts on.not a comment about some mad scotsman ruining uk riding.