Looking at the cost of some new bikes and makes me think that I can actually buy a car or motor bike for the same price. Or, spend the thousands of pounds on something else, holidays, family, etc.
Even the cost of some components!
What do you lot think? Is the sport overpriced? Are we too gullible (drunk)?
Ok, I'm off to polish the shiny Hope bits on my bike.
Yes. It makes my life complete however. I'm on my second bike build of the weekend.
The prices are set to what will sell.
No one 'needs' to spend £1000's on a bike, but that's no different to most things on sale. Some may say we're too gullible, but it's down to what we want to spend money on.
It is expensive, and seemingly getting more so.
It's only expensive if you make it that way. Plenty of fun to be had on a reasonably priced bike.
It can be expensive or cheap as you like.
Today I had a great ride on my hardtail. Frame cost me £25, forks £130 , wheels are on their 3rd frame.
And it's only a sport if you're racing 😉
Chris King hubs are now almost £900 a set...Hope are still less than £200. 10 years ago a set of Hope hubs was £160 and a set of Kings was £500.
I think top end gear has gone up A LOT in recent years, but the mid level and entry level stuff is comparable to what it was, and the entry level stuff is pretty decent these days. I think you've just got to re-base rather than bow out.
Currently looking at some new rear shock absorbers on our car. I am 'concerned' about the cost of them, however, even some very good ones, fitted, are still cheaper than the front forks on my bike!
i was sat thinking about my bike spending in the past. i was thinking or trying to remember if i had spent money on the bike when it could have been spent elsewhere.
i dont like cars, i have a nice house, i dont smoke, i like the odd pint, i have no debt, my wife works, i go on holiday when i want, i dont buy expensive clothes, i have a £10 per month phone, i dont pay for sky, i use my bike for transport to work, and always have done.
cycling expensive.........nah. 8)
Plenty of fun to be had on a reasonably priced bike
Never was a truer word said - well written 🙂
But if people want to spend money on this stuff (and we all enjoy spending money) they can. I don't have to and I believe in free choice and the good old market economy.
Is the sport overpriced?
Only if you feel you need to spend too much. The quality and performance of 'budget specced' bikes are more than most people will ever need.
Going back to what Simon said though, 'it an be as cexpensive or cheap as you like'.
However, then you get some MTBers that look down their nose at somebody riding a Saracen or whatever.
I agree with Simon though.
However, then you get some MTBers that look down their nose at somebody riding a Saracen or whatever.
That's their problem. Just ignore them.
Howay ton, cycling is your expense, lol.
It can be cheap, but it's a hobby, a passion, people will pay what they can.
In some ways it's gotten cheaper. Stuff that was top of the range a few years ago is bargain basement now - okay it might lose a bit of carbon hear in favour of alu or steel but it's still the same functionally. You can build a bike with a Deore group set for not much money and it's all great, well made, long lasting kit that's nice to use.
The 'expensive' bit is seeing stuff you'd like, that you can't afford. £2k carbon wheels or Hope Hoops for the same sort of money they were 5 years ago that are better than they were 5 years ago - that's not getting more expensive, that's market growth.
Mountain biking expensive!? Try horses.. If I/we didn't have them I could buy a new carbon Santa Cruz every six months..
I admit, I did own Saracen at one point! Very solid, but obviously heavy, lol. But had some good times on it. Paid about £400 brand new for it. A complete bike for less money than my current forks!
However, then you get some MTBers that look down their nose at somebody riding a Saracen or whatever.
Who cares when I'm having more fun than they are?
"You could buy a car for that!"
"Yeah, but cars are shit." 😉
A good mate of mine is still riding the 456 he bought for something like £300 on eBay six, seven years ago. I think he's replaced drivechain, brake pads and tyres, and maybe a stripped crank or something, but apart from that it's had nothing added to it. I've probably gone through about ten bikes in the same time. He seems to enjoy riding as much as I do though. You don't *have* to spend loads of money to enjoy MTBing.
On the other hand, I do like my nice kit, it all gets used properly in so far as I am able, and I don't buy it on credit or anything, so anyone grumbling at me about how much my bikes cost will be mentally tagged "bellend" and henceforth ignored as a complete idiot. 😀
I had soooo much fun on my £300 value 26" HT bike this morning, pulling away from riders on carbon Cannondales and Santa Cruz's and chasing down eldest_oab on his shiny 'new' £600 Orange Five,
My hardtail is 7 years old. 9 speed, hope wheels on narrow wheels. Maintained on a pretty limited budget and still a lot of fun.
I've just bought a spendy full sus but that's a want not a need. Arguably no more fun than the hardtail.
Agree that top end kit is getting silly though. I used to default to XT. It's now slx or deore.
food, ale and bikes are my passions. i dont want to eat, drink or ride the same one for the rest of my life.
hence my journey goes on....... 😆
Matt, you've also raised another good point, lol.
All this wheel size crap. At one point it was just one wheel size, then, well we all know, lol.
Diesel, bridge tolls, parking, uplifts, cafe stops. It's all expensive. But cheaper than some other hobbies.
So, ton's next bike is actually a spin cycle connected to the bar at his local with real ale and good food. That actually sounds very good, lol.
Looking at the cost of some new bikes and makes me think that I can actually buy a car or motor bike for the same price. Or, spend the thousands of pounds on something else, holidays, family, etc.
Can you buy a top-end race car for that price?
I expect that some will disagree or sniff at the idea, but you can get yourself a very nice, well-specced MTB for £500. In fact I seen one in Decathlon a few months back for half that. Might not be up to the "race-car" standards that the average middle-aged STWer is used to, but by no means prohibitive to enjoying any aspects of mountain biking.
My MTB cost me £400 in 2009 and I still think it is a fantastic bike. It's one of the best value things I've ever bought.
I don't feel the need to spend thousands on bike. The capability of the bikes at the entry level is so much better than it was than when I came back to mountain biking 15 years, look at the Voodoo and Boardmans, Calibre and Pinnacle bikes. Look at the value you can get with 2nd hand 26 inch bikes. My Prophet frame and forks came to less than 200 and they are minted.
15 years ago I could get the same Bridleways on my Kona Caldera as I could on 6K full suusser today. What limits me is my ability and my bottle, not my bikes
If people are looking down at your bike that's their problem, not yours.
Whatever you do, don't get into triathlon, the gears not that expensive so long as you don't get your head turned by TT bikes, But the race prices are extortionate. Ironman UK is not far off £500. Most 1/2 are between 125 and 200. To balance it off I mix it with fell running which is like the Audax of the running world. last week was £8 for a really well mashalled fell half marathon.
Butcher, what do you mean by 'top end race car'?
I don't car how expensive bikes are, I'm happy floating around in the middle. Middle of the range stuff is excellent these days.
Plus there's no ongoing expenses enforced by law like tax and insurance. Riding is mostly free.
Nothing to whinge about here.
An alternative way of thinking then.
Instead of paying hundreds, thousands for bikes and components, should we better off paying for better MTB trails?
My current most fun bike cost me £150. It's blimmin ace fun (SS CX)
It is what you make it, and prices for kit are what they are because people will pay it. You don't have to pay lots of money, and perfectly serviceable bikes are available for relatively modest cost.
Personally, although bikes are probably my biggest outlay after basic living expenses, they're a bargain. It's a damn sight cheaper commuting by bike than by car, and puts way more smiles on the face than just about anything.
The market's changed, that's all. There's alot more "cyclists" (I use the term loosely 😉 ) about these days with big money who're willing to spend big. Hence, the manufacturers have to make expensive components.
There's still plenty of good stuff about at decent prices though.
Ok, apart from the financial cost, the fun factor and the environmental benefit.....what else?
I don't agree with daveforlforth, sorry. Is it not just a case of 'shiny things sells'?
Butcher, what do you mean by 'top end race car'?
Could mean lots of things. But you compared the price of bikes to the price of cars. And yes, you could theoretically spend more on a new bike than a new car. Which yes, is kinda mad when you think about it!
But the bikes many of us ride (and I say us, but maybe this doesn't apply to me, riding a £400 bike..!) are highly tuned bikes using the latest technology, designed for maximum performance.
If you were looking at cars fitting that description, you could be looking at Ferraris, Porsche, Lamborghini.. And everything in the middle. Nissan GTR, Subaru Imprezza (probably more comparable to my bike). If you want the equivalent of a Ford Ka, then you're probably looking at a £150 bike.
Just got back into bmx and I am so glad the way even a high end bike is max £750 unless you start really trying to spend money. You would not get a high end steel single speed MTB for anything like that. The extra material costs are an insignificant difference, it is just it is deemed that the market will pay more for MTB.
Butcher, very good points.
For my riding and performance lately, a wheel barrow would be far better! Lol
I think its also about making stuff last. I bought a spesh enduro ex demo 5 years ago for about 1500, still using it and racing it and its an awesome bike. Better than its rider. I must be the last 26er left at some races and most of the other riders have had 3 bikes in the time I had this one.
Of course the 2 shocks, 2 forks, 3 complete drivetrains, 3 dropper posts, 3 pairs of wheels and multiple saddles, bars, pedals I have had over the last 5 years have pushed the cost up a tiny bit..
I ran some old bike prices through a basic inflation calculator out of curiousity recently. Well, actually it was an attempt to persuade myself that these high prices I'm looking at for n+1 aren't so bad!!
On the whole, the prices I paid for factory bikes in the last 20 years would be roughly comparable to today's. E.g Orange 5 Pro (2004), Cannondale F900SX (1999), Marin Rift Zone (1997) - each contemporary price, adjusted for RPI inflation, would be about the same for an equivalent model in 2017. It's similar when looking at parts - I've not bought a complete MTB since 2004.
There have obviously been some exchange rate falls (2008/9 and 2016) and market development at the top end, but also some tech improvements and earlier gains from exchange rates (mid 2000s).
The "cheapest" way seems to be to buy reasonably nice parts individually and sell them on while they have some value - popular (but not overly expensive) frames / forks / wheels / drivetrain etc seem to re-sell quickly for decent money. Complete bikes seem to depreciate alarmingly in comparison.
I agree with Simon.
And Ben.
Not sure about you calculation, however, I think that the majority on here will agree that depreciation on new MTBs are very high.
I think that the majority on here will agree that depreciation on new MTBs are very high.
Which is down to what you do with them and the non transferable warranty. Also being happy is not the same as being right.
On general pricing people only seem to be able to see the top end and ignore that it used to exist (and as pointed out forget about inflation) the quality of an entry level groupset has improved vastly over the years.
Mi byk Iz srscn. The shame.............
I've got a fairly decent fs, now 7 years old. Doesn't get ridden as often as it used to pre kids but nothing wrong with it except a lot of my riding mates now have 29rs etc and I get dropped on hills when I didn't before so am considering buying similar new bike. Expensive? Yes. Do I really need it? No, but otherwise i'll be buying new windows which I've managed to put off for the last 10 years. Life's too short.
In 2004, an Orange 5 Pro cost £2,200. In 2017, the same model is £3,395.
Inflation calculators says that £2,200 is equivalent to between £3,100 and £3,300. (Depending on inflation definition and whether you end in 2016 or 2017).
You could say that the spec is slightly lower today (Hope hubs and XT in 2004; mainly SLX now), but 2017's model does come with a dropper and other modern developments.
I frankly don't care about the cost, as long as I get good usage out of the products. In fact I prefer the idea of quality over cheap. Bring it on.
Also, if posh bike keeps you going out more and more and your quality of life increases. It's a tiny amount of money. Very little other spend brings so much pleasure and health.
I was looking at replacing the wife bike after 10 years the same model of bike has, on average, had a 5% per year inflation rate if you go by the current price. Quite frankly that is taking the piss.
Just reading Ton's post from earlier, and it rings true.
Yes I spend a fair bit on bike bits, but I don't really drink, non-smoker, wear jeans and t-shirts until I have to buy a new set, etc.
I have mates who go to the pub most evenings, smoke, and like to dress in 'labels'. They raise their eyebrows at the cost of my bikes, but don't even blink at the fact they probably spend £100+ a week just on beer and fags.
All my bikes are at the cheaper end of the spectrum, and I don't pay an LBS to maintain them either. I suppose being a cheapskate has been bred into me since birth... Buy there's always been people who have more money and a need to buy goods/services a cut above the rest...
The thing is I don't believe I get any less pleasure from riding my cheap, second hand, old bikes when compared with some fool who's had to work three times as many hours to afford a bicycle that's as much of a status symbol as an item of sporting/leasure equipment...
If you can afford it, good luck to you, but do stop bloody complaining about the [i]"rising cost of Mountain biking"[/i] it's discretionary spending nobody's holding a gun to your head...
As Mr Taylforth said:
Too many ex golfers with too much cash.
I can't blame the media for making hay, but the Singletrack article a couple of years ago suggesting that £2000 was now the baseline amount people should spend on a first bike was the tipping point for me.
Combined with standargeddeon, I now regard the MTB industry as pretty much just that.
I'll give them money if I must, but to smaller companies and secondhand if possible.
Rusty Spanner - Member
As Mr Taylforth said:Too many ex golfers with too much cash.
yeah yeah yeah.... go find me a 1k HT that is shit compared to the amount you would have paid in 2000 for something that probably had elastomer forks
🙂
A good point.
I can't disagree.
The benefits of the increased popularity of cycling far outweigh the disadvantages.
Bike choice and value have, in many cases, increased immensely.
But there are negatives.
But there are negatives.
Such as? Have we done inflation?
was cost my enjoyment, fitness and great friends? Priceless.
Choose your future. Choose life, choose mountain biking!
[url= http://radventure.cc/mountain-biking-is-the-new-golf/ ]Too many ex golfers with too much cash.[/url]
MTB has always been expensive if you let it, it's deciding whether or not you're going to allow yourself to be sold the idea of the latest, greatest doodad to make you faster (compensate for lack of skill and/bravery*) or the ride more enjoyable or to 'slay' gnarlier trails, or not, that's key to making it cheaper!
* I recently bought myself some skill and bravery.
after 10 years the same model of bike has, on average, had a 5% per year inflation rate if you go by the current price. Quite frankly that is taking the piss
And obviously you've compared every element of specification, and taken into account exchange rate changes for those 10 years before being outraged?
Dave - Member
Too many ex golfers with too much cash.
😀
It's a good article, but I don't agree.
I like 'new' geometry, big tyres, wide bars etc.
Never tried a dropper, but they sound like fun.
I have nothing against genuine progress.
My next bike will probably have all of those.
Tubeless too.
It won't be Boost.
It won't have 650b wheels.
Or hydraulic discs.
Or flat mount.
Or suspension.
Or a press fit BB.
Or any other pointless, unecessary, cynical toss either.
I do like suspension forks and hydraulic brakes.
But Rockshox and Shimano currently expect me to pay more for a product seemingly less reliable than the one it replaces.
It won't be Boost.
It won't have 650b wheels.
Or hydraulic discs.
Or suspension.
Or a press fit BB.
Or any other pointless, unecessary, cynical toss either.
Why not?
What if the bike you like has 650b, boost, hydraulic brakes, suspension and pres fit?
I wouldn't consider a bike with any of the above, apart from hydros and possibly suspension.
And then it would depend.
Deore hydros? Possibly.
XT, no.
How long am I going to be able to get replacement forks for a short lived standard?
Not looking good is it?
I'd probably go rigid with a bigger tyre.
Why not? What if it was a great price?
It won't be Boost.
It won't have 650b wheels.
Or hydraulic discs.
Or flat mount.
Or suspension.
Or a press fit BB.
Of those you list, only the PF BB has no real consumer benefit, it's there to help framebuilders reduce costs.
Suspension and hydraulic brakes have VERY real points and Boost will almost certainly replace the myriad other standards for MTBs, which to me seems a great thing.
I'm fully 29er and have owned a 650b, but for my type of riding it has no advantage over 26" and significant disadvantages over 29.
Suspension and hydraulic brakes have VERY real points
I know.
But, as above, the current stuff seems to be less reliable (Shimano hydros) or a simplified, less reliable, cheaper to manufacture version of older stuff (Rockshox).
Add in the fact that we live in a post standards world, cable discs and a rigid fork seem very appealing.
And I doubt that I'd have any less fun.
I've never had a problem with Shimano Deore brakes. Been using them on a few bikes over the last 3 years and never once had a problem. I can't really imagine using any other type of brake for mountain biking.
My old Avid brakes were horrendous though, had no end of trouble with them.
Suspension can go wrong and costs money to maintain, but depending on what you ride it's probably worth it. Still, I see the appeal of a rigid bike with big tyres.
0% has made a big difference, people get finance and don't look at the 'RRP' they just look at the monthly cost.
I knew back in 2008 when I started ridding I liked the 'top end' bikes but could not afford/justify such a cost. However careful buying and selling 2nd hand has allowed me to end up with 3 what would have been more or less top end bikes in 2012/13. Yes I'm still on 26" but £2 - £2.5k has given me probably what would have been £9 - £10k worth of bikes.
I may not have the 'latest' and 'greatest' for 2017 but in 2013 my bikes were considered some of the best...not sure they're crap now just because there are new 'better' bikes out!
I've never wanted a better bike than the ones I have.
I'd like some more, different bikes, obviously, but my do it all road bike and MTB are pretty much my perfect, ideal spec and cost less than £1400.
I like simple, well made stuff that will last.
And I suppose I just don't have very expensive tastes.
🙂
MTBing "costs" very little. Some people choose to spend a lot of money on it though.
MTBing is cheap, compared to the long-term impact of getting fat.
Two of us were out today, everything from mud to 6" snow (20 miles and +3000ft). Went into a café and there was a bloke there, about our age (50's) and I'd say he was heavier than the pair of us, together (and then some).
I'm glad someone mentioned Deore disk brakes… proof that, if you choose wisely, many of today's bargain components piss all over those fitted to "top end" bikes of yesteryear. Might not look blingy, but do a great job.
You can buy a 2grand bike for £60/month over 3 years.
That's cheaper than gym membership, a satellite telly subscription, a month's worth of cigarettes, booze, shiny car, etc. etc.
You [i]can[/i] spend as much as you like, like any hobby, there isn't an upper limit. But it's not compulsory...
I just bought a Specialized Rockhopper (1996), off Gumtree for £115.00 new cassette and chain fitted for £30 and a Crud catcher for £6.00 I have had about an eight year break. This bike had been stripped, resprayed new factory stickers, Marzochi bomber forks added. Clarks v brakes. It's a cracker. More importantly it has gotten me back out into the woods and mud. If you know what to look for you can get into it with fairly decent kit for under £150.00 I'm all excited to be out again. Going to hit Alkrington Woods this week for first time in 8 years. Hope I don't end up going for a swim.
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Bikes are as expensive as you want them to be, and always have been.
£600 for Judy SL's in the mid late 90's adjust for inflation and i am guessing that is over a £1000 today.