[Closed] the bike industry is suffering

Whereas every other industry just gives stuff away if you ask nicely?

Up to a 3 grand these benefits are easy identified .... but after this probably not so ...

That also applies to cars etc... a Dacia Duster is funtionally the same as an X3... but people will pay more because they see that BMW says something about them...
Is an Apple MacBook really worth twice the price of a non windows PC?

But there is a point when even the most committed lose interest. I used to love Orange bikes ... and would look no further that that brand. But now ... meh!
I currently have 3 Cotics but feel they will go the same way at some stage ....
I would love a BTR .... but 3 grand for a frame ... hell, it just hold the wheels and handlebars together ..

I also feel that the bike industry is doing itself no favours with 29 vs 27.5 vs 26 and then not showing any commitment ( plus wheels anyone)
Boost vs non boost .... really?

Oh, and to get a frame for £150, you can't just buy one - you need to commit (and often pay upfront) for lots of them.

Yes - that's correct.
From approx 30 pieces you get good rebates
From approx 300 pieces you will pay already much less than above.

But same is true for Shimano / SRAM drive train components and Fox Forks and and an.

One of the big, powerful bike brands - what do they pay for a £1200 (retail) Fox fork?
Around £300 or less?

Yes - there are marketing costs, engineering costs, financing costs and so on.
But the margin on a 6k wonder sled is a bit crazy...

Reason why the industry is pushing so hard for it.
As noted in many posts, this thread: like other industries as well...

Bike industry for high end mountain bikes is not different there.
But for electronics we swallow that my machine is obsolete after 2 years. For the bike not.

Interesting thread this.
My mountain biking has reduced significantly following a nasty leg and ankle break last year, and I've done more road riding. I treated myself to a new Giant Defy, carbon, discs, through axles. It's lovely. Can I tell the difference against my previous 10 year old Spesh Roubaix? Not really if I'm honest.
As far as MTB's go, I have 3. A beautiful Ti XC hardtail (from mid-late 2000's) that weighs nothing and will last forever. A second Ti hardtail, couple of years old, relaxed geometry, 160mm fork, it's lovely. Then I have my full carbon Mojo HD, 160mm front and rear, picked it up 2nd hand for £1300. It's immaculate.
All my MTB's are 26" wheeled. I'll never change them, I'll never need to change them.
I've never ridden a 29er or a 650B, and have no need to. Why? Because my 26" wheeled mountain bikes do all I ask of them, and can do do far more as their capability far exceeds mine.
More bike shops seem to stock road bikes now as they just can't stock all the various bits for MTB's anymore due to the crazy standards. I still believe most MTB riders ride 26" bikes. This may not be the case at trail centres, that are in their own world, but out in the countryside I still see far more 26" wheel bikes.
Virtually every bike is more capable than it's rider, money would be better spent by people to increase their skills rather than having a 5mm wider rear hub.
However, for me, it won't change. Bad crashes have a strong effect, and I doubt I'll ever MTB to the same degree again, let alone buy another MTB.
Just my views, not concerned if people agree or don't. Just ride whatever bike you have, just remember that if you've never experienced a Merlin Metalworks XLM Ti hardtail, then you haven't lived 🙂

a Dacia Duster is funtionally the same as an X3... but people will pay more because they see that BMW says something about them...

The duster is better off road for a start.

But no people pay more because there's no holds barred a BMW is a better quality of car you just need to sit in/drive then both to become acutely aware of the differences.

I suspect that even if the BMW said dacia on the front it would still sell well if it was the same car.

Dusters a blow mould plastic turd. I'd still buy one though as I like cheap basic motoring.

I wouldn't buy a beemer as too much to go wrong

A better badge based engineering example would to compare a golf with a Fabia or what ever the equivalent is. Essentially the same car but 9/10 times barring price people would take the golf as the VW name holds more value.

But for electronics we swallow that my machine is obsolete after 2 years. For the bike not.

Thing is, a PC is obsolete after a certain time, depending on what you do with it, because it won't run the latest software. As an analogy for bikes, if the bike is the hardware, what's the software, the trails? I was bouncing around Cannock Chase in the late 80s on a Raleigh Cajun with rigid forks and biopace cranks. If I still had it, I could get around there now. Until a few months ago I was riding around the Chase on a 2002 Cove Handjob, now I'm on a Sonder Transmitter. I think I might be faster on the Sonder but I've resisted the Strava bug so far so I don't know. It's lots of fun though and that's why I do it. Would I have more fun on an £8k wonder sled (love that phrase btw)? I don't know but I'm no way splurging that amount of cash on what is for me, a toy.

The point is, the bike is never obsolete while you can get parts to replace the bits you break/wear out. All the innovations are good, bikes are definitely better than they were but no one needs it unless they really want to be riding more extreme trails than the one they're getting round on their current ride. There's also the issue of skills. I'd be embarrassed to be riding one of those wonder sleds because frankly, it'd be wasted on me.

But for electronics we swallow that my machine is obsolete after 2 years. For the bike not.

And - what I meant:

"For the bike not - and it's right so".

Absolutely in line with:

The point is, the bike is never obsolete

And this thread indicates: many bikers try to keep their bikes going. And this is great.

What I believe is sad: to meet kids on the trails, biking a 1 k sled and being UNHAPPY THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A FOX fork...
Instead of being really, really happy riding - no matter which bike they have.

That also applies to cars etc... a Dacia Duster is funtionally the same as an X3... but people will pay more because they see that BMW says something about them...

People will pay more because the BMW is better in every perceived or actual way. They are both 4x4 and both will drive you down the road but after that they have little in common. You could replace BMW with most other manufacturers when comparing it to the Duster.

Shouldn't this discussion be about how we can move forward and make cycling a more accessible and accepted leisure/ practical activity?

Everybody knows how to move forward.Does'nt need a new thread.
The other stuff,easy....just convince the 'industry' ('they' meet every other wednesday in the back room of the Horse & Jockey at 7.40) that they'll make more money.And then get someone else to pay for it.

Davedodd
I agree entirely,most bikes I see are still 26" all my MTB's are 26" and I have lost the desire to upgrade due to utter confusion over what is likely to be a sustainable standard.I used to spend a good chunk of cash on components and upgrades but not now.
The only downside is that when riding with people who have 29'ers it is definitely harder to keep up. The industry is the main loser here however I feel.

.just convince the 'industry' ('they' meet every other wednesday in the back room of the Horse & Jockey at 7.40

every wednesday?
Was nobody there yesterday!
😥

The only downside is that when riding with people who have 29'ers it is definitely harder to keep up

Or, you know, buy a 29er and get back in the game 😉

Only the even wednesdays.Duh.
I was in error in my lst post.Crabs don't know how 🙁

I was in error in my lst post.

no problem so.
My old needle printer is still struggling to get the whole thread printed out so.
Guess needs some WD40.

"The industry" will get the print out the next Horse & Jockey meeting then. Including all these details about BOOST induced pain and evil things like that.

Stuff will change soon!
8)

Will give me a chance as well to check this:

the bike industry is suffering

The whole bunch will be there!
Suffering.
😥

I’m not suffering, insufferable maybe...

Nah-I'll just wait for 26" to come around again! 😀

Did I miss the bit where ‘the industry’ wasn’t trying to wring as much cash out of us consumers as humanly possible?

Just like every other industry, then - except the bike industry isn’t so good at it...

Did I miss the bit where ‘the industry’ wasn’t trying to wring as much cash out of us consumers as humanly possible?

I've never been a sucker for silly money spends, latest fad or 7.3% stiffer parts. I'm happy on a hardtail. On deore. With reliable, durable clothes and parts. All bought in sales. Value is not cheapest, but it shouldn't be expensive.

Did I miss the bit where ‘the industry’ wasn’t trying to wring as much cash out of us consumers as humanly possible?

...see page 1...8 ... 😉

I’m not suffering, insufferable maybe...

happy bloke!
That's the way it should be...
😯

Road bikes got it worst. The introduction of discs is a good thing but the roll out was very badly done. From MTB its known that thru axles are better. Anyone that's used qr with discs knows that sometimes they go in wonky and they rub. Bolt thru fits right everytime. Some road bike brands decided on 135mm qrs, I think trek made 130mm disc frames, some went bolt thru up front qr rear and rather than settling on 15mm bolt thru up front they've since changed to 12mm. This means road disc wheels have to be compatible with all these standards while not being necessarily as good as if they didn't have to be compatible with all those standards. Some people have to buy a wheel set and then spend another £30 on adapter sets.

I think FROG have got it spot on and chosen a sensible part of the market to specialize in....by basically not being too greedy.

Kids market is a constant as they keep growing until mid teens. Their bikes arent complicated, but solid and well built with a reliable spec. The sales model works really well too by including the dealers and not doing direct only. They have taken a chunk of the kids market off the direct brands in a relatively small amount of time. My LBS's sales lead up to xmas was 90% Frog bikes with a few nice high end MTB, eMTB and Roadies thrown in.

Agreed about Frog...like Island bikes about 5 years ago until they also jumped on the greed model.

Agreed about Frog

had a look at the Frog homepage. Smart!
Like it.

jumped on the greed model

what's the greed model?
😯

It seems to me that these days mountain bikes are so different to what I need

Not read the whole thread but this is bobbins. Every kind of bike still on the market from gravel bikes to rigid Surly to basic hardtails besides enduro bikes. There is no question that MTBs are WAY more diverse than they used to be. And good thing too.

You must be reading the wrong mags.

jumped on the greed model

Bit nasty of you to assume a manufacturer is being purely greedy just because prices have gone up. I'd bet Islabike are the antithesis of greed.

Have you read the 'what kid's bike?' threads on here? What's the immediate recommendation? [i]Second hand[/i] Islabike. What do you think that does to their sales? I wouldn't be surprised if that why prices have gone up, cos they are selling fewer new bikes. That and Brexit.

I'm happy on a hardtail. On deore.

That's relable, inexpensive and highly functional Deore as produced by this bike industry you hate so much?

Perhaps it's a good idea I haven't read the thread! So much fail on one page 🙂

what's the greed model?

o.k.. Thanks.
Understand now.
For some greed model is:

purely greedy just because prices have gone up

for others not.
🙄

Bit nasty of you to assume a manufacturer is being purely greedy just because prices have gone up. I'd bet Islabike are the antithesis of greed.

Have you read the 'what kid's bike?' threads on here? What's the immediate recommendation? Second hand Islabike. What do you think that does to their sales? I wouldn't be surprised if that why prices have gone up, cos they are selling fewer new bikes. That and Brexit.

Plus they try and pay their staff a half decent wage.

Greed model...like many other brands that want to be seen as premium they have massive prices for what is essentially being offered for less by other manufacturers.
Isla do now have a pro range (I think that is the name), but is truly extortionate for a kids bike (that may last a year until it is outgrown).
I'm all for people riding the best they can afford but the prices for many things aren't priced to cover costs (although they have gone up - but most wages haven't gone up at the same rate) but more because we, the mtb buying public, have shown we are prepared to pay it...so the greed continues...we are a small number but apparently have a lot of disposable income (not everyone does).

I've seen the term greed thrown about a lot in recent threads. Have the people who assume a brand is being greedy checked the profits of the companies? Have Isla started making a much bigger profit since they put prices up, or is it just to cover costs or improved bikes? If these brands that have put up their prices arent making more money than they were before then it's not greed.

Obviously it's for you to decide whether the increased cost is worth it, but it's a different thing to greed. Not all brands cater for the premium end of the market, so criticising the ones that do is a bit stupid. From a customer's perspective it's good that there is a wide range of bikes at different price points. If you don't have a lot of disposable income then there's still a lot of brands out there that make decent affordable bikes.

catdras - Member

Road bikes got it worst. The introduction of discs is a good thing but the roll out was very badly done. From MTB its known that thru axles are better. Anyone that's used qr with discs knows that sometimes they go in wonky and they rub.....

Put wheel in frame, tighten QR, spin wheel and check for rubbing. If it is, then loosen QR and straighten wheel. Not at all difficult, and nothing to do with the introduction of through axles.

Yeah but every time I use the QR's on my road bike I realise there is a much neater and simpler solution out there on the bike sat next to it...

Put wheel in frame, tighten QR, spin wheel and check for rubbing. If it is, then loosen QR and straighten wheel. Not at all difficult