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Really enjoyed my Hadleigh on sunday, wasn't sure where my fitness would be as I only managed 2 races at the start of last year and no CX races over the winter. But I was pleased to come 25th in open male, better than I expected.
My CB Highline started dropping of its own accord on the seond lap, but fixed itself by the end of the lap, which made things much easier!
I noticed (unsurprisingly) the bikes of choice are carbon hardtails. I raced on an Orange Four, weighing 12.6kg. How much difference would a lighter (say 10kg) bike make? Anyone swapped and noticed the difference?
Yes. I raced my Spark on Sunday, had I known all the technical had been removed I would have taken my 3kg lighter carbon HT, it would have made a difference on the climbs* I’m a sucker for comfort though.
At a certain point say 25/24lbs your investment is far better in yourself getting stronger / lighter in a controlled way if you are new to racing efforts. If you’re established and not carrying extra flab then the bike will be third on the list. Easier tomdrop a LB on the waist than on the bike.
*well not much for me as I’m sick as it turns out.
Thanks Kryton57, good to know. Last couple of years I have shed 20kg body weight (wasn't fat to begin with, what I would call average). Not really anything left to loose now, so whilst I hope to keep improving my cardio/ fitness, the bike is the next logical step it would seem.
Do people bother carrying spare tubes/pumps etc. when racing?
I didn't when racing CX, but the walk to the pits was guaranteed shorter then!
Not running tubeless for various reasons...
Depends on the length of the lap, usually a tube and CO2 to get me back to the car without a major walk...
I have a little “pocket pack” which is basically a road tube, co2 cartridge and thingy, tyre levers quick patches and a quick link strapped together. It sits in my race bag and slides into my middle pocket for MTB, road or race - its just easy to always pick up and go.
I have lightweight Scott Race tube strapped onto my MTB seatpost mainly for Marathons and rides from home, I don’t both taking it off for XC TBH.
I've never carried anything when racing, if i punctured i'd walk back... it's race over at that stage anyway.
Actually after the faff involved in just getting the tyres to mount properly (and that's with tubes...) I'm not even confident I could properly repair a puncture trailside, took the rear tyre about half and hour to sloooooowly pop into position properly.
On the flipside if I ever did go tubeless at least I know the tyres seat tightly...
Got my first XC race of the year coming up next weekend. A charity, as many laps as you can in three hrs kind of thing. Looking forward to it but barely ridden my mtb since last september.. and having been focussed on cross haven't ridden 3hrs in a long time either. :Looking forward to it though and am considering it as a kick-start to my training
it’s race over at that stage anyway.
You see, I don't agree.
I lost 7 mins after snapping a chain on the start once after being held for the next group to go and then fixing it with a quick link, Now, I could have thrown in the towel, sat back and watch the race with a coffee on a sunny day. Yet, in a field of 40, I managed to get to 25th with a 7 minute loss and, I'm no superfast person either.
It can be very quick to get a cut tubeless tyre sealed an back up with Co2, or even by throwing a tube in - I guess it depends how much it matters of how many points even a minor placing means to you.
You see, I don’t agree.
I lost 7 mins after snapping a chain on the start once after being held for the next group to go and then fixing it with a quick link, Now, I could have thrown in the towel, sat back and watch the race with a coffee on a sunny day. Yet, in a field of 40, I managed to get to 25th with a 7 minute loss and, I’m no superfast person either.
Considering how few i actually overtake in a race, i should clarify then "It's all over for me"
Simple fact is, if i lost 7 mins in a race i'm last.... by a long way. The only places i'd gain is from DNFs.
I prob wouldn't bother with any spares for a short course MTB race either - don't think there's much value continuing if you've dropped way behind your racing peer group, as there's not typically anything to learn from just riding round the terrain. With cross I would always try to repair a mechanical or tyre problem as it's so skills based that just going round the course will always have something for you.
With cross I would always try to repair a mechanical or tyre problem as it’s so skills based that just going round the course will always have something for you.
Eh? There's no skills in MTB is your inference. I'm sorry but as I demonstrated above and depending on your evaluation of the importance of the race theres no reason to abandon. Having travelled and paid for the privilege anyway plus also if you are actually interested in being fit for racing there's merit in pushing out the remainder of the race at race effort for trainings sake - or skills sake as you seem to imply unless I read that incorrectly...
I always carry a spare tube, gas, multi tool. Probably overkill. I did once podium after snapping chain on the start line though....
as there’s not typically anything to learn from just riding round the terrain
Yeah, not sure I agree there at all.
My crank fell off end of the last lap on Sunday, I keep a tool on my bike so put it back on, with the faff I lost about 4 mins, but there was no way I was going to just give up. Part of the fun was seeing how many places I could get back.
Eh? There’s no skills in MTB is your inference. I’m sorry but as I demonstrated above and depending on your evaluation of the importance of the race theres no reason to abandon. Having travelled and paid for the privilege anyway plus also if you are actually interested in being fit for racing there’s merit in pushing out the remainder of the race at race effort for trainings sake – or skills sake as you seem to imply unless I read that incorrectly…
Certainly true that a workout's a workout - you've driven there and got your kit on so I can see wanting to get a race effort come what may.
Didn't you post here about doing an event in the Peak, and having to stop as you were struggling with the terrain? How is that consistent with 'pushing out the remainder of the race at race effort for trainings sake - or skills sake'? I think rather it shows that racing is an emotional investment and that if you're out of the race it can sometimes be hard to re-engage with it.
I think thats a bit of a emotive and unpleasant comment Garry and there's no need for that. I wasn't "crying" no.
I quit just over halfway yes, because I was physically tired and mentally exhausted for whatever reasons after 3.5hrs racing the Peaks - something not to be underestimated - and had spent the last 1/2hr making silly mistakes leading to more frustration. Thats very different to giving up because of a flat.
I'm not trying to paint a picture that I'm some kind of n'er give up hero, just commenting on your content with regard to carrying spares fixing a flat in an XCO race. YMMV, but I've merely re-iterated a relatively positive experience in not doing so.
Apologies, Kryton, I re-phrased it. All I mean is that for the type of MTB races I might do (local / regional) there's normally nothing there for me technically as far as the course goes, because MTBs are now so capable. The skills dimension is all in the racecraft, positioning your bike against the other people you're battling with. So if that's gone with a flat, I wouldn't be that motivated to continue [I know on national-type courses you can get very challenging stuff, so that would be it's own reward to tackle].
Will admit for the first time I didn't carry any spares down at Cannock last weekend, didn't see the point really as the lap is essentially a loop of the event center.
I always carry them when on Marathons, 12 /24hr races or training or normal riding as a bit of time can be made up and the loops are usually a bit bigger / more remote.
A charity, as many laps as you can in three hrs kind of thing
Ah the Spencer Sports event my mate is running, good luck.
It costs what, £25 to enter, x petrol/hours to get to race, favours to the family to actually be allowed to go, time spent ‘training’...if I puncture I’m ****in’ fixing it and finishing the race. Plus even if I come last, I’ve had a good workout. No way I’m wasting my day and going through the mental anguish of an avoidable dnf. 🙂
Ah the Spencer Sports event my mate is running, good luck.
Yeah thats the one. Should be fun. You not tmepted? guess a long drive.
Ree tools - agree with McVittees, what a waste of money if you puncture / break a chain in the first 200yards. I've always carried co2, tyre, multitool and quicklink. You'll have to fix it at some point after all!
When i race i go to race, riding round is irrelevant to me. Training, meh, i've done that. Its all about the race/results. If i puncture the race is over.
Yeah thats the one. Should be fun. You not tmepted? guess a long drive.
I am, just got to convince SWMBO
I started off with 'its for charity..'
Ok, am convinced about carrying basoc tools, I'm treating it as training also so no point giving up and walking.
What's the overtaking etiquette, similar to CX e.g. rider in front owns the line?
13thfm...
Yes, but a racer rider shouts “on the left/right” when the want to pass and politeness is encouraged. The rider in front pulls to the side at the next available point. A lot of riders forget this and don’t always stop to think that surprising the person in front on technical ground can result in a very bad situation, it’s something that annoys me a lot.
Racing for position is what it is, Elbows out and hold the line 🙂
How technical are XC races? Mainly looking at SXC for myself, I've done GT7 and strathpuffer and am definitely a red route rider (though not the fastest and most confident) so just trying to gauge it to see if it would suit me. Thanks
Not terribly.... Blues really at most places i've raced, if that. Not down south anyway.
Not very - if you can handle reds at trail centres you’ll be fine. There are sometimes A & B lines but the A lines are nearly always utterly rideable. Having said that - even relatively simple tech takes on a new level when you’re blowing out your arse & you’ve someone on your tail. Also the higher up the scale you get on XC the more techie the races can get. Grassroots stuff will be pretty chilled but Nationals can have some quite intimidating stuff. Worry Gill flat out can be quite interesting..
No idea about SXC, from the races I've done it varies considerable from some of the most technical riding I've experianced to flat, smooth and fast. The good thing is that there are B-lines for the very technical bits and there is no shame in taking them (or so I tell myself 🙂 ) Sure you'd be fine if you wanted to give it a crack.
I did GT7 last year bigmandh and I reckon that would be a bit more technical than most XC races, so you're probably fine there. Of course you're going flat out on short course riding, so it's a bit different than just tackling stuff at your leisure.
The National level courses do have some baws-shrinking features, but I've not seen that sort of stuff in local / regional type races myself. Too wide a range of ability in the field to be throwing a savage drop-off, say, into a lap.
Did a few of the SXC races a long time ago and they were brutal! I was nowhere near race fit but just remember a lot of climbing at places like Aberfoyle and Glentress.
I noticed Beecraigs/Linlithgow is in the SXC calendar, have been pootling about there recently on the CX bike and now on the XC bike (same bike, different tyres...).
It's actually surprisingly technical if you want to go fast, lots of roots on corners/short rooty climbs etc. Certainly pays to know the lines for some of it if you want to keep any forward momentum.
Nothing scary technical though, although I've still to check out the 'black' optional lines...
Thoughts?
After finding myself ill at Hadliegh I feel I want to test my fitness in competition before the Builth Marathon in April. FWIW I am nervous I will underperform at Builth as I'll be returning from the US 2 days before - Jetlag. I could go and do the Henham round or Southern XC on 17th April - both are a 2hr round trip, Henham is pretty "flat" and non technical.
Should I? Coach says "if I want to, as a B race", but £60 of race entry & fuel plus 4hrs on the road isn't appealing.
I've never ridden Southern XC, is the course good and more worthwhile than a flat Henham? Henham does have the advantage of me knowing the completion and therefore getting a relative measure of performance.
Southern on the 17th April is Checkendon. Pan flat. Lots of tight hammering around singletrack in the woods linked up with a few straights. Utterly relentless course with nowhere to recover anywhere, but pretty fun tight racing. Great n' fast in the dry, can clag up in the wet, but not as bad as somewhere like Wasing.
I'll second Yak on Checkendon - pretty much spot on.
Looks like I'll get more info from Henham then, and less chance of spending Sunday evening on the M25...
Thanks
The British Cycling MTB Marathon Champs are once again the Manx 100 on the isle of man over the "short" 100km course. The Manx Marathon Champs will be on the 100 mile standard course. Both one single lap, 3250m of climbing on 100k and 15k feet of climbing on the 100 miler.
www.manx100.com for entry BAR the British Cycling champs - where you'd need to enter on the BC website.
Travel wise we have put together a package with Sally from iomevents to make things a tad easier. If none of these options fit, give her a call and Sally and her team can assist.
www.iomevents.com
Disclosure - I'm the organiser 🙂
Ta
Kryts, you can kip over at mine for Checkendon, i'm 15 mins drive from the course.
Only ridden checkendon as a gorrick but its a load of fun. Enough up and down to make it ard wok even if minimal elevation. The corkscrew bit is fun!
You should be over jetlag in two days - take sleeping tablets whilst you are in the US to make sure you remain rested.
And if you want to test your fitness, why not do a local time trial? This way you are racing against yourself, not against others. From the other thread(s), i don't understand the racing as training approach unless you can be really strict and focus on your own performance (HR at threshold for 1hr, NP at xxxW for the race) rather than what position you came.
Checkendon for Southern XC is 21st April? Thats round 2, Round 1 on 17 March is Matterley Basin (I'm doing the open class as my first XC race in years)
MSG on 17 March is Henham.
If you've never done a TT before, how do you know whether you are fit?
At least if you go to a race where you are up against the same people every round you can look at relative performance.
Oh, sorry. Must have misread the date. Matterley is properly hilly, big south downs hills. Nice singletrack in the woods too, some off camber, a drop, some fast descents, steep up and down. I have only been there in the dry, but I would expect mud tyres packed as spares would be a good idea as it's south downs.
Pack your climbing legs!
Your time on a TT will tell you whether you are fit. But it's the regularity of going back to it monthly where you see an improvement (hopefully) that is most important. TT is a consistent course, where as with XC racing you may be against different people each time, they may have ups and downs in fitness, or strengths/weaknesses in particular areas so you can't measure yourself consistently against other people.
Pack climbing legs for Matterley? Hmm, anybody got a set?
Ah this changes things - climbing has been my training focus so Matterley gives me hills plus intensity - i can work to a given level on long climbs for training
Ill google where it is...
thanks for the offer Weeksy!
Ok I’m tempted. What’s parking like, would a rwd German car get stuck? 🙂