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I did see you padkinson - ive seen a pic of you somewhere but with a helmet on, and when you got out the van i thought “ is that padkinson?”
The scraped top lip also helped as a disguise. I almost came over to ask to borrow some spray lube actually when i saw your box of tools as my saddle/post was creaking annoyingly, so yes that was me sitting opposite you on the boot of my car going through some lap visualisation
@jimbob, i didnt hear you sorry, but as mentioned pretty much all inwas hearing was my heart rate 😀
i was quite happy on my hardtail but did wonder if through some of the bumps and ruts a FS would be an advantage. This is the first time ive used a mezcal though and on several occasions i thought id lost pressure as on hard turns it made that swooshing sound, but no. Must be a characteristic of the tyre as it started and ended at 20psi.
Wow my legs hurt after hacking around Phoenix Bike Park!
Last weekend I tried racing again at the central race at Black Park. To cut a long story short I came second behind Ade Lansley. I was happy and hoping for a good ride at the National.
Tuesday the race detail arrived and I had an (expected) poo gridding (I guess this happens when you don't race). I lined up second row from the back with 7 laps to make time. Gun goes and off we go. I made up some positions on the starting charge and then hit the single rack and the procession began. On lap 4 I made contact with a group of two fighting for 5th/6th. I pulled and attacked, led out the last lap only to get passed on the final rocky climb, I just didn' have the legs to regain that position. So 6th place it is. I'm very chuffed. As I've said before, after all the asthma issues i had last year I'm just happy to be able to ride let alone race and finish close to the pointy end.
The course was cool to race but boring to ride. Very close racing and as I got told a whole ago; nationals you are racing the series, not a one off race. The drops were sometimes intimidating and certainly helped decide the results. I know what I need to train now and hopefully a better gridding and a result is on the cards at the national champs.
I' now recovering with a glass of wine in the garden and trying not to think about getting up for work tomorrow.
Sorry, late to this thread. 2018 was going to be the first season where I did som3 actual racing, focusing on marathon stuff. And the season ended before i5 even started.
Similar to Padkinson (hope you are on the mend) I was out for a leisurely spin 3 weeks ago, and bam, out of nowhere I was on the deck. In short, paramedics, 5 days in hospital and now at home with arm in brace waiting for a fractured humerus to heal. This in addition to groin strain and the usual scrapes and bruises. Unfortunately the humerus is one of those bones, that takes longest to heal with a long recovery period thereafter. So that is the 2018 season out of the window..
Sorry to hear it @jako guess it adds some fuel to the fire for next year!
Just got back from Phoenix Bike Park myself and echo the comments about a pretty dull course although it wasn’t quite as bad to race on.
Absolute sufferfest! New threshold heart rate for me and averaged 186bpm over 7 laps for over 90 minutes. Had an OK start but wasn’t going to do anything special with a 32t and 11t rear which felt a little limiting at times. Especially the track parallel to the trainline. Conditions were super hot and dusty. Anwway for 5 laps I settled into a group of 3 where we worked together. Eventually one got spat out the back and the other guy managed to latch onto the elites when they come through to lap us. Eventually I finished 14th in Expert and not far behind the 2 riders in front. Really happy with that, took both A lines and taught myself how to jump mid race!
Think I spotted @padkinson in the warm up circles. The wrist brace and scabbed top list confirmed that. I would have said hello but you were getting called up for gridding.
Gave Iain a few cheers in the vets race this morning too.
Seems quite a few people had some nasty crashes this weekend and even one of the strong Elite guys came unstuck somewhere with a face plant and a broken arm as a result!
Good weekend for me, consistent laps and a top result so I’m happy.
Well done Jimbob, you've come on leaps and bounds in the last 18 months thats for sure. Top job 🙂
I guess as a couple of posts above, this one should be in the Doldrums 🙂
I'm still debating round 3 of Southern XC in a couple of weeks time. I fancy it, but due to the Cats, it would be a 6am or so leave time from the house, which if i go alone isn't too bad, but if my boy races that's then a proper early start getting him out of bed etc.
It's a good 2hours+ drive from home to the track, which i'm struggling with justifying to myself in honesty... I don't know. I've sort of settled myself into a more gentle mode of riding at the moment rather than head down, balls out all the time, which i expect would influence my results in the race. I'm not like some of the guys in here who can take 6 months off then come back in with a top3 lol.. .
Struggling to motivate myself for it.
a more gentle mode of riding at the moment rather than head down, balls out all the time
Which I suspect would do you good, e.g. rested.
Which I suspect would do you good, e.g. rested.
Oh god i wish that were the case. Yesterday was standing in a field for 6 hours for a Footy tournament for my lad, so my legs are even tireder than usual today... stiff and achey. Along with looking like i've sat next to the sun for a week 😀
🙄 Hardly worthy of the doldrums thread. You want to race- just not enough to be arsed 🤣
I expect there’s a lot of injured folks who’d do anything to get out and race with very little sympathy for you!!
As for jr- he only needs to roll out of bed and eat some breakfast. Then he can sleep again in the car 🤷🏻♂️
Oh and buy yourself a folding chair 🤣🤣🤣
Hardly worthy of the doldrums thread. You want to race- just not enough to be arsed
thought that was the whole point of the doldrums, i don't class injury as being a doldrums thing, motivation was my thoughts and perception.
From memory you're not doing the series just the odd race? If that's the case, sack it off. No point racing if you can't be bothered. Seeing all the pics and reports afterwards will have you frothing for the next one!
I missed my last planned race out of laziness, spent the day feeling guilty and now I'm already fired up for this coming weekend 🙂
From memory you’re not doing the series just the odd race? If that’s the case, sack it off. No point racing if you can’t be bothered. Seeing all the pics and reports afterwards will have you frothing for the next one!
Plan was for the full series, but it was scuppered by being in Germany for round 2.... I do have the time booked free to allow me to do all the others though.
Bloody hell that was hard!
Not because of the injuries as such, looks like it was a brutal day out for everyone. That being said, it got very exasperating losing time every lap on the second drop, and I came very close to deciding to go for it in the race, but I'm under doctors orders to not crash again!
Elite start was a bit manic, one of the french lads in front of me flipped over after a few pedal strokes, then Chris Rothwell snapped his chain (again right in front of me). I gave myself a really bad stitch trying to chase down the elite group, so had to sit up after the second lap, which probably did me well, as I most likely would have dropped right off at the end.
I didn't really notice my lip while racing, apart from it cracking open at one point bleeding a bit. The wrist brace got a bit annoying when all my fingers went numb, so had to do a bit of mid-race fiddling.
Owing to the small field, I actually managed my best national result in elite with 14th. Not really a massive achievement from just 27 riders, but I'll take it.
I reckon our little team must take the title for most successful at the race: winners in grand vet male and elite women, 6th vet for ernie, 9th and 14th elite for Rich and me.
🤷🏻♂️ I thought it was usually when someone had trained for something and then life had conspired against them.
Not being sure if you can be bothered seems a bit different??
I thought the Expert/Elite race looked tough with the temperature climbing, well done padkinson!
Jimbob - in case you were wondering who was cheering you on and calling you jimbob, that was me..
We had a good day out, the drops scared the hell out of me on Saturday, opted for the B lin on the first one as the time difference was minimal and I was struggling on the berm at the bottom (not the difficult bit at the top for some reason, probably because I'm sure I close my eyes and miss the braking point!). The second drop was okay and gained time on the guys around me each lap which was good. Ended up 6th in GV which is my best National result yet. My son was 18th in Youth which he was pleased with and team mates got second in vets and 6th in Expert so a good day all round.
It was a really well run event and the guy from Mud, Sweat and Gears looking after the camping area could not have more friendly or helpful, more mountain biking in Sufflok for me!
@padkinson Luke's Dad here sorry to see your face that must have really hurt. From a viewing point of view that was about the dullest thing I have ever driven 2 hrs to see. It was a flat field with a few jumps down a railway cutting. Don't get me wrong I really appreciate that if you live in Suffolk there is a very limited amount you can do with a small bit of land and they had tried really hard and plainly made a great job of it..but its supposed to be the Nationals Mountain Bike Series. Luke's Garmin showed 465ft of climbing for the race..so if blasting round a flat field is your thing it was ideal. Maybe British Cycling should have a chat with the Southern XC team as the courses have a bit more in variation/elevation. That said I am an old git who just holds the bottles so I have no idea if it was fun for the guys racing.
You should get on a bike and race it at full pace, perhaps you’d feel differently.
No, its no Hadleigh but the short sharp leg burning climbs and trying to focus on landing the front wheel correctly when your chest is exploding isnt the easiest. It likely wont appeal to climbers, and is also very different when wet. Plenty of twisty single track with off camber turns, ruts and bumps where you no doint could see it anyway unless you’ve walked or ridden the course.
it was the same for everyone but it wasnt a flat field. The MSG guys are well organised and do a great job at hosting an event, might be nice to be grateful for thier efforts.
I know i've said the course was dull to ride. It was better to race on but it was absolutely brilliant to Spectate on.
From the viewing area near the pits you could see 8 different parts of the course. It was almost as exciting as racing it!
The series results have been updated with the 4th round now. I'm 1 point ahead of my biggest rival going into the last round. It's going to come down to the line! So far this season has given me some seriously close racing in every race which is great. Sometimes you can end up riding solo for most of the race but certainly not this year!
It might not have looked good from the sidelines, but in elite the course made for fantastic racing. Proper cut and thrust, high speed tactics and battering each other.
Now I'm all for long climbs and descents, mostly because that's what I'm good (*less bad) at, but variety really is the spice of life. The french word for our sport, velo-tout-terrain, is much better as far as I'm concerned, as it's not really mountain biking, for most of us, most of the time anyway. It's much more about covering a huge variety of different terrains at pace, which includes grassy turns and man-made jumps.
The other issue is that of parking, spectating, facilities etc. Even if you didn't think much of the course, the eastern team nailed it in all other aspects, which is why the national series keeps coming back to them in spite of the terrain.
And a final note, don't dismiss Suffolk as somewhere to never return to. I grew up and am still based there and do alright. Yes it's (fairly) flat, but that builds strength as you have to sprint about the place rather than coast downhill (see Tunstall forest).
Sounds a bit like the RWAS at Builth (location for many welsh races and the last national round this and last year) - no real hills to speak of and a fair bit of uninspiring terrain but I've never not enjoyed racing there because its so tight.
I think the spectating thing is really important too - my wife 'enjoys' (happily suffers?) coming to watch cx races as you can see a lot / easily access areas of the course but avoids coming to mtb races like the plague most of the time because watching people cycle along a bit of fireroad at the start/finish once every 15-20 minutes is apparently boring!
So what's the deal at Builth Wells? I've never raced there before. I thought there was lots of climbing? What strengths would you need to do well there?
They held a couple of nationals at Fforest fields which was an epic course with some nice big climbs but last year and this its at RWAS which is an out and out power course. You're basically going round the differnet levels of the overflow car-park - which is better than its sounds as there are some single track sections though the adjacent woods, two rocky drops between the levels and last year there were a few wooden jump-ish features.
This is the strava segment from last years welsh champs which i think was the nationals course: Strava segment
There is a fair bit of flat gravel/grass. The climbs are a few short sharp steep (3-5m high) ramps up and then from memory two draggier climbs with quite shallow gradients. It races well.
few photos of the nationals last year on roots and rain here:here
Realised I'm away that weekend which is a shame so no nationals for me this year at all - probably not a bad thing with my current fitness and mindset though!
Thanks, sounds like it might suit me like Phoenix I guess! Another sufferfest to look forward too, yay!
Anyone seen any photos from Phoenix? There were photographers everywhere.
I raced the local midweek series last night at Chorlton Waterpark just outside of Manchester. Massive turnout as always. The course is normally super flats but this year they’d found some fun new singletrack to chuck in there with a few short punchy climbs.
I wasn’t gridded but managed to start somewhere near the front. The top 4 riders quickly formed a group and worked together. 70% of the course is full on drafting / road racing territory. I was in 6th for the first lap and slowly reeled in the guy ahead. We worked together for the rest of the race but weren’t able to catch the lead group. Lap 5 was supposed to be the last lap so I emptied the tank and and attacked only to find the organisers had added an extra lap in! I nearly sat up and let the guy I’d been working with pull away but I couldn’t give up....! Managed to just about hang on for the final lap and get the better of him in a sprint for the finish from the last corner.
Top racing with a new 10 / 20 and 60 min power record! Not bad for a Wednesday night.
Nice one!
That was an experience, couple of laps round the Eastnor course to remind myself how horrible the climb to the obelisk is, and aware that I really could do with a lower set of gears.
Get to the start for the commissaire to announce that it won't be 3 laps but 4.
The rain held off and the ground was dry,
It isn't a hard technical course, but for me it was fun(?) No idea where I finished but I failed in my objective of not getting lapped when Nick Craig came past at the end of lap 3.
Raced the Welsh series today at Builth. Absolutely cracking event, a new venue and course (to me at least and I think the series), one main climb, then rolling singletrack that was dusty and loose, a rocky a-line descent and then a cx-style downhill blast with wide open off-camber turns. One of the best courses I've ridden in a long time - a very 'fair' course that didn't really suit one type of rider so racing was quite tight. Not sure on placing, think it was a small field and came in pretty low down but was just pleased my body seemed to be working, average hr 176 which is about what I normally expect for an xc race, not last races pootle
So that’s my 3rd race in 7 days done and I’m pretty knackered! Couldn’t get my HR up today and my lap times dropped of a cliff.
I raced at a very wet and soggy Grizedale Forest up in the Lake District today. The course had one horrible, grassy, bumpy climb but it was rewarded with a pretty fun, long, twisty and rocky descent. Only 7 riders raced Expert today but I somehow managed to bag 2nd in that category. Not my finest performance but I’ll take that result! I got passed by a couple of vets and the winner from the Sport category so was someting like 5-6th overall I think.
Few weeks off racing for me now with the next planned stop likely to be at Llandegla in 3 weeks time for one of the welsh series races.
three races in 7 days sound brutal! Good result though!
Planning on making the trip up to llandegla too. Last round of the Welsh series, should be a good one 🙂
Any ideas what the course is normally like at Llandegla? I'm familiar with the trail centre as it's only about an hour down the motorway for me.
Generally start on the fire road up from the top car park, climb up that, go across the wooded section, descend some fire road, round by the reservoir through the woods and back to the fire road via the bird carvings
Question - how many of you keep an active tab on HR while racing? I tend to to avoid blowing up and so I'm not tired for the technical sections but I'm now feeling like I could have given more yesterday. On the one long climb (1km ~9%) I was trying to keep about 8-10 beats below max hr but I now think i was over pacing it. Maybe its better not to have HR showing and just ride from feel?
For XC racing I'm watching it to ensure I'm at race effort, and haven't subconsciously dropped off.
For Marathons, my coach and I have worked on HR at watts output (I don't have a PM on the MTB) so I can sit on climbs with HR as an approximate guide to power delivery. This has worked well for me, avoiding me blowing up. On the basis of prior evidence we are moving this up by 5bpm during the next one as I'm not quite empty over the finish line.
Yeah maybe I just need to be a bit more aggresive with what number I'm trying to hit. For cx I know I can sit between 180-189(max) for an hour but I don't find cx technically challenging in the same way as xc, where I feel like I can't go too hard because I need to concentrate in the singletrack / tech sections.
Next race I'll try and follow your approach of not using it as a limiter just as a check i'm not getting lasy
I’d recommend a slightly different approach of just go by feel.
HR fluctuates massively from race to race depending on levels of fatigue (and other things) going into the race. My HR yesterday averaged about 15bpm lower than one of my previous races despite being a very similar course with almost the same power figures at the end. Had I tried to ramp the HR up to match that previous race I would have blown up, quickly.
Power data can be more useful. I tend to glance at NP and IF but at the end of the day, it’s not a time trial so you just need to make sure you’re pedalling a bit harder than those that you want to beat! I’ve never looked down and thought “I should be going harder” but I have occasionally looked down and thought “that’s pretty un sustainable, best reign it in!”.
HR tends to be pinned not far from max for an entire race for me anyway. I wouldn’t let HR numbers dictate what kind of effort you should be doing. It’s too slow to react.
So in the absence of a power meter, just keep tabs on the number of laps and go for it.
Yeah - I think I overthink things rather than just going full gas.
re. Llandegla, there was a course map up up on the welsh series facebook page: here
I sit here typing this with weapons grade tiredness.
I'm at week 3.5 of a "Build" period, which tapers into a July 1 MSG (Reg A) race. I've been doing 9-12hr weeks on top of work with double pyramid sessions & sweet spot in the week and 5-7hrs Z2 Saturday and Sunday.
I had the option of another double pyramid session or Racing the London Beastway (Reg C) race. Of course, you know which I picked.
I did the warm up lap and my legs felt like Jelly. I knew It wasn't going to go well and just reminded myself I was there for the "intervals" & training aspect not the result.
The whistle went, and within 500m sprint I find myself in a group of 5 with the leaders. Being within a separated small starting group I thought I'd over done it and started to back off - still an hour to go. But I just kept going. Lost a few places due to a racing incident, and took some back. My pace & HR was consistent and I felt good throughout but tired at the end. Eventually came over the line in 10th after a few excellent mini battles.
So this is my 4th day of starting for work at 5am, I can barely keep my eyes open and have a feeling this weekends Z2 rides are going to feel lengthy affairs... I need a nap...
Careful you don't overdo it and get ill
Regarding the HR and power, I do look quite a lot during marathons, although I don't take much note of HR by itself, it's way too variable to ride to. I watch power like a hawk on long climbs (20 min+) during marathons, possibly too much, and take note of where my HR is at a given wattage.
For XCO though just give it the beans as much as your legs will let you.
Stumbled across this whilst browsing a tt forum. It’s part of a longer discussion but I liked this sentiment so much I copied and pasted it here:
...Although personally I went a lot better without a coach, without a plan, without any worries about FTP or CTL, without zones, no easy rides needed or wanted (maybe occasional recovery rides and plenty of warm ups and warm downs), get rid of all that rubbish, cut the junk out - focus on doing quality sessions where each one is dosed based on how you feel and how tired you want to be for your next race, your training should be aiming to elicit adaptation not tiredness, so you're looking to drive forward your athletic development with a mix of enjoyable training that focusses on metabolic muscle fitness and development, with enough vo2 exposure to keep you sharp and enjoying it, but never so tired you can't do the next session easily - stay healthy and keep adapting and keep riding consistently. My best power (which I never got to put down in a race) was achieved on a CTL of 30-40 - much higher than my power with a CTL of 75 in previous years.
Never so tired you cant do the next session easily
Fundamental contradiction to the basic theory of overcompensation and so needlessly limiting.
I no longer have a coach but having done 4 coached years I know what works for me. The down side of remote coaching to a pre agreed plan is reduced flexibility.
I'm supposed to be doing a midweek race or intervals. I'm carrying a slight hamstring strain - i have notjing written down (other than block dates) so its easier to just do 3 weeks of less intense distance.
Adaptation is achieved by training load and hence tiredness is a byproduct. Only the individual knows hoe much is beneficial
I do wonder though if we all, myself included, spend too much time being tired.
Training plans seem (correct me if I'm wrong) based on the assumption that we're all living like pros. For example that a rest day will be total rest. Anyone with a family will know how unrealistic that is
A question I often ask myself is : 'is this making me faster, or just more tired?' All too often 'more tired would be the honest answer'.
I'm trying an experiment this year where if I don't feel like training because I'm tired then I don't. I'm just listening to my body and only riding when I'm keen to do so. My rides have definatily been more spirited so I'm hoping this'll translate into speed.
Focus is on the CX season for the third year in a row, so the results this year will tell all. I'm hoping I won't be rubbish, but I'm loving not being tired all the time. Life is a lot easier like this.
For me personally, my plans have changed twice based on measured tiredness (tss) and are self/ coach adjusted on unmeasured stuff.
The data shows I don’t perform well in negative TSS, some people do. My plan has changed to include a longer taper before races with a bi-product of shorter harder intervals mid week in my non taper weeks. I have one endurance ride in the weekend which is “mixed zone, enjoy yourself but it’d be useful to ride in z2” and another which is strictly zone 2 1/3rd my time is mid week, 2/3rds weekend.
I raced Southern xc at Pippingford today.
It was the best bit of mtb'ing I've done in years!
It was basically a big climb split into singletrack sections followed by the most sublime downhill ever.
Being a bit of an xc jeyboy I rather focus on power and climbing and all that stuff, but this course made me focus on descending. It's been so long since I've had to say to myself 'heels down, pump into the berms, feel the g-force and squirt out into the next berm'.
I'm so happy! It's like I used to feel when I started mtb riding.