I sort of see what Juan means. I dont think it explored the content enough (of course only IMO- everyone has an opinion)- more along each bikes intended use, more on each build etc etc (i.e. depth) as I was- silly I know, confused on how the commencal sat in the range (infact until you dig through their site its pretty confusing)- 666, 6 etc etc.
Sod all the studious explanations of why it's a sound design. Where's that picture of Jon jumping one over a fence? 🙂
i did a 4 foot drop on deejays hemlock loan bike prior to it breaking with his 10 stone frame on it....... 😉
i've had my Hemlock for 2 months and i love it. i haven't bent or broken it, and haven't found flex to be an issue.
the way i see it, it's a sturdy, light bike, with Dh friendly angles. it allows me to ride technical xc trails, without fearing for my life/face/teeth when i point it down something steep.
it even goes uphills alright, the top tube is a touch shorter than my old enduro, so i don't fall off the back when i pedal.
it's possibly the most fun bike for its weight...
(remember boyles 3rd law: you can break anything with a big enough rock)
i hope one day Cy makes a super-sturdy Hemlock, because that would kick ar53 on uk Dh tracks.
mind you, if the current frame passed the new euro strength-test, then it's no weakling...
Bikeradars (numerous) reviews on the Meta 5 draw your attention numerous times to its flexy rear end (one occassion loosening the QR), especially on a group test where they said the Giant (Reign?) was superior technically (and all round) yet the Meta won for its woop/grin-factory. WTF?
They pointed out themselves that the meta had a flex problem and (to me) the shoot-out was worded/weighed firmly in the Reigns favour. It was actually that review that stopped me buying a Meta 5.
Cy
Have 18Bikes been in touch with you about their demo bike? I had it last Friday and was really enjoying it. Climbed most of Jacobs Ladder without a problem, came down the other side really well - felt spot on - excellent on the twisty single track and way lighter than I was expecting. I was working out in my head how to spec it when . . . .
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The washers were fitted. As you can see from the shock the travel was no where near used up.
Oh and Ton was NOT allowed on it
Yes, they've been in touch about that one. We're not sure what happened there, and I'm still looking into it. The next lot coming over in June won't have that design anyway, but I'm still concerned and I'll admit a little puzzled. Since we sorted the spacers out we've not had any trouble, I ride one all the time without problem and it really isn't like they're dropping to bits left, right and centre. It's even passed it's lab tests, so I'm still trying to figure out why that did what it did.
I'm glad you were enjoying it up to that point.
Is that what they call a virtual pivot floating suspension design 😀
I'm glad you were enjoying it up to that point.
I really was and would be very happy to try a new one when they appear - mind you 18Bikes might not let me 😉
I've never broken a frame before. Cy, throw my name into the test pool. I found a crack on my 456 Summer season yesterday 🙁
My builder has just offered me deep section chainstays on the new swingarms with machined in butting like the old Pace frames for hardly any upcharge. How cool would that look?!! Very tempted.....
I found a crack on my 456 Summer season yesterday
Having had 2 fames do this to me i know how gutting it can feel.
I do like the way the desginer has come on and explained about his product which would give me the confidence to buy one.
How the hell did a summer season crack? Got any more info Hora? I thought they were nigh on indestructable....
Where the seat stay meets the seat tube- seems to start thinly (you wouldnt even notice it on its own) along the weld then 'pangs' out for about 5mm. Its in an odd-place however these things do happen from time to time I guess. After all its a mtb product that is shaken constantly/stressed etc- A manufacturer shouldnt get grief/pointed at etc. Kinda compounds what I said/felt yesterday on this thread even more now.
[b]hora[/b] said... I found a crack on my 456 Summer season yesterday
Did you get a Summer season out of it?
And a Winter and a good part of Spring?
Be interesting to see what On-One say about it I guess..... I assume they'll send you a nice shiny new replacement given how little it's been used?
my best guess on the 18bikes/Deejay Hemlock snappage would be loose pinch bolts?
(chainstays are under tension, if those bolts come loose it would allow a spreading load on the 'eye')
i'll keep an eye on mine...
New Hemlock arrives May/June. Angus council come into Cyclesheme May/June. The eternal ying and yang continues, bringing together the salary sacrifice and the shiny new kit (catches fly with chopsticks while sitting in the lotus position)
I dont want to say too much on it (I crashed twice on the ti456- over the bars) but none on the summer season. It would be disingenuous/unfair to enter a dialogue and publish it in a public medium at the sametime.
[b]hora[/b]said ...I don't want to say too much on it... It would be disingenuous/unfair to enter a dialogue and publish it in a public medium at the sametime.
Let's hope this kind of responsible attitude doesn't catch on round these parts!
Far too reasonable Hora?
Wheres the wild conjecture and promises to wee in the welders shoes after owning him with some bombers? This sort of agreeable chit chat really isn't on here is it?
STW has a reputation to uphold you know. It not just yourself you're letting down here! 
Cy, go for the external butted chainstays, I'll need a Hemlock even more then.
LOving my Hemlock and if it goes wrong i'll trust Cy to put it right.
Agree with Mugboo, loving my hemlock, but I am a tad worried that the ****er will snap when I'm somewhere in the middle of nowhere!
On my way home tonight I came down a long steep road section so pulled the rear brake and looked at the stay for a wee while. And guess what? Solid as a rock, no bowing at all so I don't really know what BikeDoodar are on about. And as for snappage, Cy is a lot bigger than me and prolly rides a damn site harder and faster too and that's good enough for me.
Suffice to say I love my Hemlock.
LOving my Hemlock and if it goes wrong i'll trust Cy to put it right.
...loving my hemlock, but I am a tad worried that the ****er will snap when I'm somewhere in the middle of nowhere!
Am I the only one who is slightly shocked by this view? As if a frame snapping, never mind at such a critical place, is 'no big deal' and just a matter of getting it replaced with the worst case scenario being a glum walk home?
What happens if someone breaks one doing a 6ft drop for example? It's not as if these frames aren't going to be used for such riding, someone above mentioned using one for DH.
Worse case scenario suddenly becomes smashed ankles or a broken back.
I do like the way the desginer has come on and explained about his product which would give me the confidence to buy one.
Really?! Call me a cynic (because I probably am rather cynical at the best of times) but it doesn't take much for a designer to give a few excuses in technobabble about why it [i]shouldn't[/i] have broken, yet the fact still stands: it did.
Mistere - you're a cynic. And you'd better avoid Ellsworth's.....not that I'm bitter at all....
One or two Singletraction boys have snapped 5 spots as well, but most people haven't. Most people won't snap a Hemlock but if they do it'll be sorted.
I know a bloke who had to replace a gearbox in a month old VW Golf but i'd still buy one of them..
mugboo, nail/head
think of all the bikes being ridden in the uk.....
shyte happens, but not very often.
tho i did once snap a orange sub zero.....pile of crap 😉
I tried a Hemlock at the recent Glentress demo day and loved it. There's a fair chance it'll be my next bike.
well that is because of your riding style ton you ride like shite 😉
never snap anything, I have ding a rear rim once. Oh and I usually use the pedal to the very end 😉
As said everything break. I have seen one guy on here that have bent a HJ. I trash mine as much as I can even doing what people on here would call hard core XC going down small small step (1-1.2m high)and guess what, mine hasn't break yet...
So as said shite happen. Bike are getting more and more technical, they need more and more attention to be able to work correctly so if you forget to check something and get some play in the bike failure like that can happen....
There is no such thing as "secret" in the bike industry. If a bike is too light it will break... If you cant ride or dont take care of your bike it will break too.
If you want a risk free life stop biking and start doing like SFB, pootling around big puddle to take some pictures of girls' asses.
*** Note that mistere don't have some valid points
There are some funny things happen that are beyond the designers control bad heat treat? bad alloy constituents.. wrong welding rod.let CY get to the bottom of it before the firing squad line up!!!!!