How many will be dropping out due to COVID?
He looked utterly cooked at the finish.
The insane thing is that he’ll still have ridden it over an hour quicker than even the fastest amateurs!
It's funny, when you watch these guys in the flesh, they're absolutely rapid uphill, every single one of them. The differences between the climbers and sprinters are marginal when compared to the average amateur.
2 outside the time limit according to the official ticker. Brutal day out for them.
Looks like just the one, Bram Welton from Team DSM Firmenich PostNL. Not sure how far back he was.
Unbelievable performance from Pog and i don’t mean that as a compliment.
Riding 8-9% gradients. in a 54tooth chainring.
At least Pantani and Armstrong had the decency to make it look hard.
Doped to the gills and we are just waiting for the positive dope test to come through.
He made a mockery of the Giro and is doing the same to the tour.
Vaughters made some interesting comments on Eurosport after the stage. Asking if anyone had the record time for the last climb. And then when he found the stat (mysterious in a couple of seconds he had it on his phone weirdly)......45 seconds FASTER than Pantani's record. I swear there was a twinkle in his eye!
Sadly I still wonder if he will get through his career clean.
Vaughters made some interesting comments on Eurosport after the stage. Asking if anyone had the record time for the last climb. And then when he found the stat (mysterious in a couple of seconds he had it on his phone weirdly)……45 seconds FASTER than Pantani’s record. I swear there was a twinkle in his eye!
45 seconds? It was beating Marco Pantani’s 1998 effort by 3 minutes and 44 seconds
45 seconds? It was beating Marco Pantani’s 1998 effort by 3 minutes and 44 seconds
Vaughters checked it on his phone during the ad break and thought it to be 45 seconds initially. They corrected it later on, confirming it was closer to 4 minutes.
Damn. I'd turned off by the correction.
Besting a pure climber known (now) to have been well and truly juiced by nearly 4 minutes. That's............impressive.
Just enjoy it for what it is, that's the approach that I take to TdF viewing. The sports past means that doubt will forever be cast over the best performances. At least Pogacar isn't as much of a **** as Armstrong, and this era is far better viewing than all of the doped performances of years gone by. Contador, Schlek, Wiggins...utter bore fests, the first 2 were obviously on the gear, Wiggins more than likely.
We spent all last year calling Vingegaard a doper. Ditto 2021 with Pogacar. Froome rlgot piss lobbed at him courtesy of his performances. It's just the same chat every year.
Besting a pure climber known (now) to have been well and truly juiced by nearly 4 minutes. That’s…………impressive.
The thing is, everything on the Tour is faster now. Average speed of stages is well up into the mid 40's kph, often higher on flat days.
But if we assume that the old approach of dope to the gills is near impossible now (I'm not suggesting doping is non-existent, just that the previous approach of whacking yourself full of EPO and extra blood is simply not possible anymore due to biometric passports and far better anti-doping), everyone has had to look elsewhere for gains. Aero was the obvious one and a quick glance at bikes now vs bikes then shows massive gains in aero - integrated cables, aero tube shapes, carbon wheels plus the clothing, helmets, even shoe covers and socks etc - everything is aero-optimised to the nth degree.
Nutrition is way more scientific, there's loads more data like power, HR, cadence, climb profiles and so on, better tactics and riders are more like robots than ever before - able to sit there and ride at precise power outputs for pre-determined times and fuel on personalised nutrition programmes to the nearest g of carbohydrate.
It is genuinely a different sport from back then - I believe it is much cleaner although how clean is anyone's guess given the relative lack of high-profile busts. Most anti-doping wins seem to come from amateur level "Gran Fondo" type events and there was quite a funny example recently of such an event in Spain where, midway through, word got round that anti-doping were at the finish and about 130 riders simply abandoned there and then.
Besting a pure climber known (now) to have been well and truly juiced by nearly 4 minutes. That’s…………impressive.
Could just be a quarter of a century of performance improvement.
Could just be a quarter of a century of performance improvement.
It could be. I enjoy the spectacle, but I also find it fascinating. I don't think even the likes of Armstrong and Pantani rode like these guys. What we see now we've not really seen for 50 years. Something has changed, and it's just changed in the past few years.
What we see now we’ve not really seen for 50 years.
You mean we DID see this 50 years ago?
As others have said I find a lot of the discussion about the non-doping advances in the sport to be quite reassuring. The Escape Collective's Performance Process podcast and Ronan Mc Laughlin's work in general is well worth a look - just the other day he published this peice on how teams are using Carbon Monoxide rebreathing to measure the effects of altitude: https://escapecollective.com/exclusive-tour-riders-are-inhaling-carbon-monoxide-in-super-altitude-recipe/
As for the racing, I'm really enjoying it. Pogačar is a really fun racer to watch and seeing his rivals figure out how to beat him is also cool.
As others have said I find a lot of the discussion about the non-doping advances in the sport to be quite reassuring
hmmm, it's all a bit like Chris Carmichael and Lance's high cadence for me. I'm resigned to "it", whatever that is
hmmm, it’s all a bit like Chris Carmichael and Lance’s high cadence for me.
If it helps at all, Vingegaard and Evenepoel both beat Pantani's time up there as well.
I'd echo earlier thoughts about hoping that a KoM from over a quarter of a century ago could be bettered nowadays. The approach to training, nutrition and recovery is light-years ahead of the 90s, and then there's the actual bikes:
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/retro-pro-bike-marco-pantanis-1998-bianchi-mega-pro-xl
Compared to:
The spread of gears; the crank length; the geometry - it's all so much more progressive than in Pantani's day. Add in power meters, head units with telemetry and team radio and it's a different world.
As a mountain biker, you'd look at those bikes at the time and be astonished at how basic and regressive they often were, even by the standards we had back then. Things are faster now for less-nefarious reasons, I hope.
and fuel on personalised nutrition programmes to the nearest g of carbohydrate.
And not only are they personalised but they're taking on large amounts as well.
If it helps at all, Vingegaard and Evenepoel both beat Pantani’s time up there as well.
doesn't really - my feelings are not specific to pog
From nickc's article:
Physiologists and nutritionists acknowledge a limit there’s a limit for “safe” carbohydrate intake, but don’t think elite sport has found it yet.
In the meantime, nutrition brands are evolving their product lines to meet the demand for more, and physiologists tinker with test athletes to see how far things can go.
It’s only a matter of time before today’s “carb ceiling” is blown away.
It could be that coaches and teams have only really started looking for athletes who are 'super eaters', ie, people who can tolerate incredibly high amounts of carbs without it ending up coming out of both ends. Pog, Vingegaard, Rogalic, Evenepoel, etc could just be the first who happen to be able to tolerate higher levels of carbs and are therefore far ahead of the rest of the field.
If this becomes the defining factor in what makes a Grand Tour rider then we'll start seeing the rest of the peloton reaching this level over the next few years.
It could also be that there is something the peloton has started taking that allows them to absorb carbs faster. Like every other drug there will be super-responders. It may be something that may or may not have long term health effects and which will be banned at a later time.
Or the carbs thing is just a red herring like Armtrong's high cadence was.
Personally I'm not going to overthink it and just hope professional cyclists don't start regularly dropping dead in their sleep again.
My nephew was a child athlete in the late 2000s up until 2017. He was saying that some children of Eastern European, Baltic and other countries of that time, were ploughing a lot of money into gifted and talented children early, who showed promise in sports. This was not happening in our country at the time. They were getting better nutritional advice, the best coaches and equipment just generally having a better training programme. My nephew struggled to get funding, sponsorship and great coaches, it was frustrating for his level of talent.
Maybe this is why these youngsters are rising quickly through the sporting ranks of many sports nowadays, only a thought.
Estimated 6.98 W/Kg for Pog for 40 mins, comes out at about 7.3W/Kg if you factor in altitude.
I wonder what Joaquim Rodríguez' time was on Plateau de Beille when he won there in 2015? Only 10 years ago rather than 25 years back to Pantani.
Whilst I hope the improvements are entirely due to progress in bikes, aero, nutrition etc I suspect there have been similar improvements in doping too.
I still remember the panorama programme from a while ago where they doped the presenter who was a good club triathlete, saw huge gains but even when they told wada exactly what he had taken they still couldn’t get a positive test.
I still remember the panorama programme from a while ago where they doped the presenter who was a good club triathlete, saw huge gains but even when they told wada exactly what he had taken they still couldn’t get a positive test.
I don't remember that part of it...?
I remember they doped him up under medical supervision for a repeat attempt at an Etape or something similar but he didn't improve much - the implication being that everyone else at the sharp end of whatever amateur event it was had also spent a year doping.
I wonder what Joaquim Rodríguez’ time was on Plateau de Beille when he won there in 2015? Only 10 years ago rather than 25 years back to Pantani.
Best time in 2015 was Alejandro Valverde in 45:30 at 20.97 km/h
http://www.climbing-records.com/2024/07/new-top-100-plateau-de-beille-takeover.html?m=1
Joaquim Rodriguez was 47:44 @ 19.99 km/h
Tadej was 3kph faster than Valverde back then
A lot depends on how it gets raced as well (plus the weather conditions). One or two riders smashing the crap out of it vs a group of riders at a stalemate.
If you attack on the climb and smash it, it'll be a faster time than arriving at the bottom as a lone leader, pacing up it to win the stage.
Another one out - Maxim Van Gils is covid positive
https://twitter.com/lotto_dstny/status/1812863528853721427
Thanks @nbt I didn't know of the climbing records site.
GOOOOO Sir Cav.
Je suis umm... in Nice.
The trams are a) thankfully air conditioned cos it's ****ing roasting and b) all decorated in yellow for the Tour. 🙂
Only got here last night so we'll head into town in a bit and see what's going on.
crazy-legs - enjoy. It's going to be super exciting.
Here's hoping Sir Cav makes it.
Would love to see Cav get a last one as a sign-off to his career, but feel Philipsen is now on the up and got the confidence although i don't like the guy, if not Cav, then Girmay for a fantastic fourth...
Stage start in Gruissan - best known as location for the first part of Betty Blue ?
Another rolling rest day. Peloton is over-hydrated and have had at least three nature breaks already. Will be a sprint at the end. Nobody can be bothered in the heat.100km to go...
Nobody can be bothered in the heat
It's absolutely baking here. Was 28° at 9am.
40km to go. The one off the front has done a nice job of showing the Totale Energie jersey and Enve bike. When he was told to go, some while back, it was the least attacking attack I ever saw; he ambled away gently, talking/moaning into the radio, and nobody was silly enough to go with him!
Last 10km...
Roundabout sprint chaos i think from looking at the map with 4.5km to go?
Roundabout sprint chaos i think from looking at the map with 4.5km to go?
I think Biniam Girmay would probably agree with you!
The last roundabout had been straightened by the Nimes roadwork team as seen from the aerial view.
I remember the sprint into Le Havre in 1995, a sizeable roundabout on approach to the finish caused a big crash. I'd spied the roundabout from the deck of the ferry prior to docking in port! Had a good chat with Phil Liggett prior to the race arriving and Mario Cipollini winning the stage. Those were the days (winky eye emoji).
Well Biniam seems OK, a few bumps and bruises. Should be an interesting couple of intermediate sprints coming up. I'm hoping for some breakaway action too (at last).
Going to be weird these last few stages having no spring stages left, but then have two sprinters trains going hell for leather to intermediate sprints?
Hoping Girmay can hold onto green jersey, before his injury i would of put money on him as he will get over the mountains better, but not so sure now.
More breakaways too with all those teams and riders that have not won anything yet trying as hard as they can to get something out of the race?
Oh god. Cadel Evans in the commentary box. What a tragedy for the tour.
Girmay showed he was in good form which is great to see.
