[Closed] Tapered headtubes......not sure where they came from?

If you are buying a whole bike not as much of an issue but more for future proofing.

As a new tapered fork won't fit into an "old" 1/8 headtube.

650b wheels are required if you need your trails to come alive.

Do I need to care about these?
Do I need to care about 650b either?
Not troll, just don't want to make an expensive mistake like buying the last G5 iMac...

As tough as it is (having bought a 26" carbon FS last year) I'd be buying 650 this year, not because it's better but due to the moves in the industry.

Most frames these days are tapered head tube although you can get converter headsets to allow you to reuse old straight steerer forks. So for the frame yes tapered steerer.

As for 650b/27.5, last 2 years it was all about 29 and that's died a death, I have ample 26 bits lying around and have never for one second thought "if only my wheels where bigger". All I care about going forward is 26, there are so many bikes around bits for 26 will be here for a very long time. So just decide what you prefer, imo there is no need to go 27.5

Cotic had some Soul's (26) going for £350, only mediums left now but that's got to be worth serious consideration.

Thanks Mike
Don't care about the whys and wherefores as its all marketing bollox, just want a bike that will last me another 10 years i.e one that can be constantly rebuilt.

So even frames like DeKerf and Moots etc have tapered headtubes and are set up for 650 now?

Not sure on those frames, you'll need to check. The smaller niche manufacturers will be the last to change as changing costs money.

So even frames like DeKerf and Moots etc have tapered headtubes and are set up for 650 now?

Yes, though I suspect those two would make a 26" bike if asked even if they didn't still offer them.

A lot of frames are moving to 44mm HTs as these will take 1?, tapered or 1.5" steerers.

Looks like DeKerf are still with standard headtubes but can accomodate any size wheel. However the prices appear to have gone up by a factor of 3 since I last looked so too much for me

So what steel hardtail frame for approx £500-750?

It's another classic cycling bodge, 1.5 head tubes are better at everything but look a bit silly so we get tapered instead.

So what steel hardtail frame for approx £500-750?

The default answer appears to be a Soul.

look at Curtis too at the upper end of that range but you get to make choices about geometry, dropouts etc.

According to the bloke who builds frames at 18 bikes he's indicated he invented it on Facebook, or was it Twitter

[i]he's indicated he invented it[/i]

I think what he did was get the first steel ones made?

wwaswas - Member
he's indicated he invented it

I think what he did was get the first steel ones made?

As already said - go fir a straight 44mm headtube and you'll be able to fit any of the available forks.

29ers will likely remain. 26ers are basically toast unless you are buying a BSO or a DH rig.

A lot of frames are moving to 44mm HTs as these will take 1?, tapered or 1.5" steerers.

44mm is the worst of both worlds imo. If you run a 1 1/8th fork you can run and integrated lower cup, but if you run tapered you suddenly need to lift the front end of the bike by using an external cup - not sure why this is considered a good idea.

If you run a 1 1/8th fork you can run and integrated lower cup, but if you run tapered you suddenly need to lift the front end of the bike by using an external cup

Of course many 44mm headtubed frames are designed to ONLY run an external bottom cup, so which steerer you run is irrelevant. Running an "integrated lower cup" on these frames would drop the front end, and probably result in fork crown mounted knobs etc hitting the down tube.

http://www.cotic.co.uk/geek/44mm

I had a Trek 5900 road bike in 2002 with a tapered head tube, it used a 1.25" lower bearing as the crown race, worked well, and was very light.

1.5" would weigh more, tapered seems to make sense to me, particularly on more XC type bikes.

A tapered head tube makes sense when welding a smaller diam top-tube to it... not much point with fat alu and carbon frames though. Apologies for another Cotic geek link...

http://www.cotic.co.uk/geek/tapered

A few steel/ti builders in the States were making taper HT headsets in early 2010 but they'd been around on Al + carbon bikes for a while before that. 18 bikes made a cool machined tapered HT for external cups, Reynolds made a 631 XX44 headtube for Genesis, both based on the headset lower cup that Cane Creek and Vertigo cycles came up with late 2009, all following the steerers that I think were made for Trek (the E2) originally. I had some steel and ti frames made to that spec in 2010 and really liked them.

if you run tapered you suddenly need to lift the front end of the bike by using an external cup - not sure why this is considered a good idea.

Of course many 44mm headtubed frames are designed to ONLY run an external bottom cup, so which steerer you run is irrelevant. Running an "integrated lower cup" on these frames would drop the front end, and probably result in fork crown mounted knobs etc hitting the down tube.

Many/some

My el-mariachi was much better when the front end was 15mm lower and a degree steeper.

Personaly I'd go 29er, with a tapered headtube, and by default then tapered forks. The wheel size I'm convinced is better all round, and the headtube is just the most popular/futureproof standard.

29ers aren't and won't be dead for a very long time. Their only downside is ergonomicaly they don't fit in smaller frames very well. Some people get a bit evangelical about their chosen (or what they were left holding) wheel size.

Get a 29er as they are great unless you like throwing yourself off or down stuff at great speed/height at which point I would say the stronger/ more manoeuvrable and stiffer aspects of 26 wheels would be better. Not really sure of the point of 650b wheels is but there seems to be a lot of them about.

I would really not bother with 650b as apart from the things mentioned above you will probably be better off with a 29er.

It's another classic cycling bodge, 1.5 head tubes are better at everything but look a bit silly so we get tapered instead.

Presumably they can fit funting big bearings but I haven't noticed my headset bearings dying quickly.

edit actually

Of course many 44mm headtubed frames are designed to ONLY run an external bottom cup

Presumably they can fit funting big bearings but I haven't noticed my headset bearings dying quickly.

Same lower bearings in most cases, the downside is it's in an external cup, with a internal bearing/headset you can weld the downtube on lower, making it stronger or reducing the height of the front end.

I get the argument about bigger bearings are stiffer

the real reason that tapered are popular is that carbon frames are becoming a lot more prevalent and they are easier to get in and out of a tapered mould (cos it's conical like stacking cups)

D0NK - Member

afaik 44mm do everything 1.5 does but with less weight and not looking quite as silly. What does 1.5" do betterer?

Zero stacky, and flexibility- frinstance angle adjusters.

Zero stackable and lower wields fairy nuff, are angle sets still popular tho? Thought they were a 2012/13 fad.

I'm normally all for versatility originally thought 1.5 would leave me free to pick up any fork steerer variation in the annual sales but then 44 came along. I thought 1.5" added a fair bit of heft* compared and in reality how often do people chop and change headset-age? I know knocking the reducer headset into my mmmbop was a pita compared to "normal" headsets, kinda put me off a little - the fact I had to do it a few times didnt help. 🙄

*or is it actually only a few grammes?

I love bikes and am fairly handy with the spanners...yet I literally fell asleep reading the above posts - reminds me of the endless discussions about integral v 'integrated' headsets on roadbikes in the early 90's. Not the fault of the posters I hasten to add. What is it about the shortest tube on a bike that gets designers/marketeers in a lather and how long before we end up trying to separate the steering and suspension forces altogether leading to a BMW tele-lever set up!

Had a 29er years ago when they first came out (GF rig) and really liked it Only sold it as it was too small a frame size for me and never ended up replacing it so 29er might be a solution.

Seen a Sanderson Life that looks good (26er)but never heard of them and as Brants company seems to be still in business (probably due to a combination of excellent customer service and pricing) there are some Ti 456's and Titus 29ers that look ineteresting

What is it about the shortest tube on a bike that gets designers/marketeers in a lather

Ha - good point Donk, yes BB's are another can of worms, Still at least you can put pretty much any one in any frame - or can you now?

I got a Soul nearly a yr ago and most forks were going tapered, so a bit of future proofing there.

I do wonder whether my 26er dream bike is becoming obsolete though 🙁 doesn't really concern me as no plans to change and I expect there will still be wheels/spares available for years.

Actually, I can see them tapering a BB shell to 'compensate' for the higher driveside forces....

As for 650b/27.5, last 2 years it was all about 29 and that's died a death

😆

[i]Don't care about the whys and wherefores as its all marketing bollox,[/i]

No, its engineering 'bollox' 🙂

I think its fair to say, with the bike industry being an 'industry', whatever you buy will have planned obsolescence built in to it.

Buy what feels best and falls within your given price range, then go ride the hell out of it!

this is a proper oversize head tube
[img] [/img]

as an ex 20" rider, I have no plans on EVER going bigger than 26"
29" arrived, heralded as best thing since sliced bread, but was really the emperors new clothes.
this new reduction to an 'in-between size' to me, proves that 29 is now seen as a mistake.
no one wants to be seen as stupid, so rather than revert back to the already perfect 26", they bring out a NEW size! Take even more money from an industry where buyers spend thousands...
wait and see, 4 years time we will be back to square 1... 26"
26" will never die ;P

this is a proper oversize head tube

this new reduction to an 'in-between size' to me, proves that 29 is now seen as a mistake.

I don't think 29ers are going anywhere, at least for short travel/HT bikes.

The brands really pushing 650B are the ones that missed the 29er boat, anyway...

The brands really pushing 650B are the ones that missed the 29er boat, anyway...

I tend to agree, although I do wonder about the likes of Cotic, with the Soul and Bfe, which both are hugely popular, still being made in good volumes, and still selling like hot cakes. I don't see any 650B versions.

I do wonder about the likes of Cotic, with the Soul and Bfe

the likes of Cotic

The Solaris & Simple are 29ers and seem to be selling well. I get the impression Cy is deeply cynical about 650B, otherwise the Soul would've changed.

I get the impression Cy is deeply cynical about 650B

I read that as "has got a shed full if 26" bikes he needs to shift"

I read that as "has got a shed full if 26" bikes he needs to shift"

You do realise that Cotic are still building (new) 26" bikes to meet demand, both in Taiwan and now in in Yorkshire? A new delivery of Souls and BFes has just arrived, and the first batch of UK built Rockets is just about sold out on pre-orders.

Of course, there are plenty of people who won't buy a 26" wheeled bike now, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean that there's no point other people not building/riding/buying them. Ride what you want. There are some people that don't want a 29" bike, ever, but that doesn't stop anyone else riding and loving them.

Hopefully Cotic will build bikes in all three wheel sizes, I'm sure there are people who'd ride/love each option. No need to replace one with another. They all work, don't they?

Last few posts make me think that my 2013 Soul maybe isn't 'obsolete' 🙂 might struggle to get new wheels right enough if I need some at some stage !

Not sure wheels are the issue here...Just been looking at a number of superb second hand and nos titanium / steel frames all with standard headtubes

Then looked for new (don't like buying s/h suspension) forks to fit them

Most of the air sprung quality forks are tapered