[Closed] Talk to me about Droppers....fast!

For the riding you describe I would say no. If you use your bike for any techier stuff out with pure XC racing then yes - external routing means you could fit it pretty quickly for a weekend away or gnarlier ride.

Best thing since suspension and brakes that worked. Route the cable properly and no rub. Weight? I chose where I have the weight on my bike this is a place I chose to have it as it will make me quicker overall.

Oh and the Olympic xc champ just fitted one.

Borrow an external one off a friend and give it a try for a ride?

It'll help ypu get much better at tech riding, but might make it harder to do said riding with your seatpost up!

Are those (Brand x?) ones much heavier than OneUp - which is kind-of the default choice now?

Read my thread about side effects

They include far quicker handling and being able to set your bike up better for climbing. £90 worth of weight weenieing won't make your lap times quicker  but £90 of dropper will.

I didn't think I wanted one for my XC bike but I got one and I'm totally sold now.

They are ace. I'm no descender, but getting the saddle out of the way is great.  I have a fairly high saddle anyway, as it replicates my road position, so getting that saddle down and getting your weight back gives far more confidence.

It's also blooming great to be able to drop the saddle before getting off so I can get back on easier (I'm on a FS so it sits higher unladen) as I snapped my spine 3 years ago, and don't have the flexibility I had - also helps when knackered and I can drop the saddle away for getting off the bike.

I picked up an X-Fusion HILO SL brand new for £80.  I've serviced it myself with a seal kit for £20 and it takes standard car hydraulic fluid.  It's a doddle to strip and clean it out.  All that's needed is a good strap wrench for the top collar, and a long 10mm socket for removing the valve.

You will be much quicker through twisty smooth singletrack flat or down, with a lower centre of gravity, and quicker up because you can slam your bars for a better climbing position.

Just think what it'll do to your centre of gravity !!!

But it, try it, if you don't like it (give it a few rides to find out) ebay it and you won't lose much.  You can always stick a fixed seatpost back in if you want.

As long as you're not going to get wound up by slight play and slightly-less-than-perfect function (I suspect those are common to pretty much all droppers after a while) and you can afford it, I'd say go for it

Buy it, try it. If you don’t like it average eBay selling prices are around £70 for the brand x

I’ll start by saying I don’t need one

I will say that Technical riding is a weakness of mine.

Hmmmm

I'm guessing the OP has his bars already low, cos that's how the pros do it and it's better for getting the power down. But it makes technical descending more nervous. Droppers fix this.

I'm sure somewhere on the forum you'll find me saying that I don't need a dropper on my XC bike. I was wrong!

Ha.

Molgrips why on earth you'd lower it for singltrack, as sure that compromises pedalling?  I have lower back issues, and after pedalling from section to section of Hadleigh last Saturday with my fixed post down, its taken me until today to recover...?

Then I saw Flossy's post,   whereas I could have used it appropriately 🙂

BPW yes, Afan, sometimes, Swinley nope....

For the riding you do, i'm not seeing it being used very often at all.  That said, i'm not seeing 700gr mattering to you finishing 15th or 17th.

When I ride my rigid XC bike, I miss a dropper more than I miss suspension.

Yes they are better for lots of the reasons above. But you won't need it all the time. So get one, an external one. Also get another saddle too so you can easily swap between the 2 once you have done a practice lap and you have decided what's best.

Re pedalling on singletrack - you won't be pedalling with it down and you sat down. That's the beauty of them, the saddle up or down is instant and you'll be hitting the lever as much as the gear shifter on singletrack.

For me, the optimum saddle height for maximum power while seated, eg on smooth steady climbs and flat section, is about an inch higher the optimum saddle position for maintaining speed when pedalling on lumpier climbs/flat sections/descents. This is because with the saddle at full height when the crank is vertical one leg is too straight to absorb any bumps. Dropping the seat just a tad on bumpy bits lets me absorb more while still pedaling comfortably and efficiently, maintaining more speed overall. A dropper is worth it to me for that alone without even taking into account the benefit of getting the seat right out the way on steeper descents, bomb holes, drops etc. Worth every gram IMHO.

Molgrips why on earth you’d lower it for singltrack, as sure that compromises pedalling?

Fast twisty singletrack is a few pedal strokes here and there, whilst standing up. Your effort goes into handling the bike. So I found that with the saddle an inch or two lower (not all the way down) the few pedal strokes you can fit in are not affected, but the handling is very much improved. If you need to pedal more than a few strokes then it comes back up.

Remember you don't always slam it all the way down. I rarely do this in fact. As above, normally it's just an inch or two. At Ashton Court, it's down an inch most of the time and only comes up for the climb.

I'm an XCer at heart and trust me, it's a significant increase to overall speed.

Ok thanks all - an added bonus I've just discovered that both my bikes have the same seat post size, so an external dropper for swappabilty it is.

Any particular method of attaching the cables recommended?  Or just cable tie as needed?

Back in a mo, just off to Wiggle...

I probably have older bikes than you so I just cable tie it to the now redundant front mech cable tie points.

So whats the "go to" dropper nowadays?

BrandX

Spesh HiLo

Giant Switch?

Droppers need new thinking.  It’s inescapable that you’re adding a pound or so to your bike so a traditional XC mindset would have the horrors.  What you are gaining is the ability to control your saddle height on the fly, presenting opportunities to get it out of the way which means you no longer need to get behind it and so front weighting is better and thus descent safer and faster due to increased control.  It also means you can have the optimal height for all conditions rather than a single position that may be optimal with the bike on the flat but isn’t anywhere else.

I agree £90 of dropper will probably add much more to your ride than £90 of weight savings possibly could.  Probably many times that...

As for ‘go to’, it’s probably the Brand X for price.  Personally I haven’t had the failure history others report with Reverbs but prefer external KS Levs.

Buy one, try it.  You'll most likely love it.

I was slightly skeptical but now I think I would really miss it.

The should be called "upper" posts as default position for mine is down (possibly partially) for descents, singletrack and techy climbs.  The only time it's up is on non-tech climbs and road sections.

The only time I might be tempted to remove it would be for entirely uplifted Alps type riding where it'll be down the whole time anyway and maybe bikepacking where it's one less thing to go wrong and saddle bag compatibility.

best upgrade imho

BPW yes, Afan, sometimes, Swinley nope….

For Swinley I use my dropper a lot.  I don’t ride an Xc bike, but given the short up/down nature of some parts it’s very functional.  For a section like labyrinth which is tight and technical (for swinley) and transitions quickly from up to down several times getting the post out of the way makes it a lot easier to ride at pace.

Unless weight is everything to you, I’m in agreement that the dropper is a game changer for almost all riding.

Ok thanks all – an added bonus I’ve just discovered that both my bikes have the same seat post size, so an external dropper for swappabilty it is.

Magura Vyron. No cables. Uses Ant+

When I ride my rigid XC bike, I miss a dropper more than I miss suspension.

This, which is why I have a dropper on my rigid bike 95% of the time 🙂

Magura Vyron. No cables. Uses Ant+

And £350

I'll try the Brand X first over winter, then if I find it to be as reported I can get saving for a KS Lev Ci or something next year 🙂

The brand x is good, but mine is a little slow and I can't up the pressure (I think). The KS has adjustable pressure so you can pump it up high to get a super fast return.

You can up the pressure on the BX.

[ hmmm. lunchtime valve hunt planned ]

So an Ascend 2 is on order, this is combined with Project Drop-off over the winter...

From memory it's under a cap on the top of the dropper. Once you take the top seat clamp off you should see it. 👍

Not sure on pressure spec though. A Google should come up with info though. Or it might be stamped on the dropper near the valve?

So whats the “go to” dropper nowadays?

Well people seem to like these Brand X if going budget, and OneUP have nailed it with their dropper if you wanna spend a bit more. BikeYoke if you're minted (buit it feels very similar to the OneUp in use).

I don't need one. It's a luxury, but a very nice one.   With the bunch I ride with, there's plenty of time to put a fixed post down or up at the start and end of descents. but if I'm in the mood for smashing it downhill, I want the saddle down, but I also want to be at the front!  And there are plenty of pedally yet fast and twisty bits that get faster and twistier the more you pedal.  If you're moving the bike around a lot under you, you're not really sitting down and pedalling, just having it there to take the weight off every now and then. and inch lower is perfect. then the trail gets steeper and steeper and ends in a rutted gully with a load of rooty steepy drops.  start high, drop all the way nearer the bottom, Lovely.  Rideable on a cx bike with the saddle up, slowly, with a more careful line choice, which can be just as fun in a different way.

It doesn't really add 700gms either, unless of course you aren't currently using any seatpost at all!

I took mine off my xc bike a while back. Was I noticeably slower going down hill . No.

But the big difference was I felt far more in control and less likely to crash, so it was put back on soon afterwards.

But the big difference was I felt far more in control and less likely to crash

This is what I need.  My heads not in a good place for confidence at the moment and I very much ride with my head.  I have several objectives to clear over the Winter - I know I can ride them, but need a confidence boost to get it done.  Same with the 10 or so minutes it took me to walk the first section of the Hope Marathon this year 🙁

As you say, its really +450g which for me is the difference between my OEM wheels and race wheels from a weight perspective, but of course its sprung mass.

They suit some people + some bikes but not everyone

Personally I’m used to descending with the saddle up I use it for balance and to judge where to put the bike. Would be interested in a dropper that actively drops as weighting the saddle breaks my pedalling rhythm.

Kryton , sounds exactly what you need then. Without a dropper on an xc bike it feels like I'm always about go over the bars, with a dropper the issue goes away

As for the weight difference, as you say its around 450 gms.. But it's far far less noticeable than having that extra weight on the wheels

On my xc bike I have some ridiculously impractical tyres to keep weight down, but would not be without the dropper even though it adds a pound to my weight weenie 22lb full susser

Brand X ones for £89 at CRC at the mo

They make a big difference in confidence. I'm an ex-roadie and ride a lot of XC and general peaks rides.  Far better getting the saddle out of the way, weight back and letting the bike take you over the rocky and steep stuff without feeling as though you'll fall head over heals.

I don’t understand how anybody can experience riding with a dropped saddle and not immediately agree that it’s so much better for everything that involves moving the bike around i.e. corners and undulations. It’s like they don’t understand at all how to ride a mtb, which in this day and age of ‘how to’ vids and pics etc seems weird.

However there are times when a dropper is not so good like when you just need a reliable training machine for doing the miles, or when you want to fit a seat post bag.

Furthermore whilst actual xc racing a dropper isn’t always a great idea. What non racers may fail to grasp is that your legs can be so exhausted that you simply don’t have the spare strength to stand through flow sections unless you do it with locked out legs which rather negates the dropper post. Also it’s another control and another decision to make when your brain is in a hypoxic state.

Therefore for training and racing the dropper goes on and off the bike as each ride demands. If a race is going to have decent jumps and drops or extended sections of tech then the dropper will go on, but if the biggest feature is a 6” tree root then I’ll opt for simplicity even if in play mode I’d have the saddle slammed on the same course.

Thanks for all the views.  A recent shed sale adds up exactly to the cost of a Brand X dropper so its feeling like its meant to be!

My Command Post is 480g without cable and remote. Previous seatpost was 250g.

I had a Brand-X Ascend on loan for a month in the summer, while my Fox Transfer was being repaired under warranty (Thank you Swinley Bike Hub). For the money I thought the Ascend worked really well, but the remote is crappy. I'd replace that asap with some thing decent like a Wolftooth ReMote.

What non racers may fail to grasp is that your legs can be so exhausted that you simply don’t have the spare strength to stand through flow sections unless you do it with locked out legs which rather negates the dropper post.

I haven't raced for a while but have done plenty in my time.  Everything I have said is with a view to actual racing as that's what the OP is interested in.

For me, on flat or downhill sections my legs aren't aching generally - they recover after the climb and the terrain is the limiting factor not my legs.  So the increase in speed gained from having the saddle slightly lower more than offsets the reduction in pedalling efficiency.  You don't have to stand - the saddle is still there, just a touch lower.  But even when sitting your CoG is significantly lower.

I also don't think it matters the size of the obstacle. as it's not about clearing obstacles or doing drops.  It's about lower CoG allowing you to handle the bike through twisty bits faster.  Although this may be personal - Flat singletrack is by far my quickest type of trail (relatively speaking) so perhaps it benefits me more than others.

Thanks for tipping me off about the current deal on these. Been eyeing up the Acend 2 last week with a view to buying. Just grabbed one now. Cheers! I quite fancied the ONeUp but I don't think it would work with my frame.

@Kryton57

Still waiting for mine to be delivered as I said I'd take pics of the install. You have the same bike as me, so I bet you'll need the spare "double" cable guide inserts too.  If you want to internally route it, let me know and I'll pop the guide in the post.

Personally, i'd just try one anyway.  If you don't feel like you're getting the benefit of it, then just sell it on.  Having come down from 150mm travel bigger bikes with droppers, I'm now on the same Spark as you.

I've ridden techy, fast and very rocky descents in the lakes without the dropper, but I was always wishing I had one!

Whacked my goolies a few times though mind!