I'm in the process of selling a Transition Patrol as its a touch too short. I never felt especially limited by it but I've never ridden DH bikes enough to compare.
I do enjoy proper DH the most and big jump lines. I have had aspirations to do big days out on the enduro bike but admittedly am a park rat at heart and go to man made freeride type trails or uplifts most.
Getting a DH bike isn't an itch that must be scratched but I am slightly curious and wondering if it would suit me best. Can only justify having 1 mountain bike right now. Help!
If you really only ride DH I see no issue
Go to a spot that rents out DH bikes (BPW do I think, as do all alpine resorts, obvs) and try one out.
Personally they aren't for me anymore (I've owned a couple and ridden many) as to get the best out of them you have to be riding at 10/10 all the time, and on big trails. In those situations they are incredible. Drop below that, however, and they are heavy, lumbering, wallowy, unresponsive lumps, made even worse if there isn't a good bit of incline.
A decent 160mm+ bike will get you through 90% of what a DH bike will, but you can go for a pootle as well if the mood takes, without killing yourself dragging a big dead horse round.
Rent one first. It is better to ride what you have rather than buy for what you think want to ride. If you are riding downhill now, you’ll know whether your bike is not sufficient. If you only “want” to ride downhill, go and do it on your current bike first.
I find this is true of any cycling discipline.
Get one of the Commencal Supreme SX frames that are left, if you want a more usable DH bike.
Ridden plenty of DH bikes here, this is faster than a lot of them - quite a few of the reviews seem to agree!
It's a ****ing mental bike.
I'd be wary of rental DH bikes myself.
no idea what BPW or anywhere around that area's rental bikes are like but a lot of the rental DH bikes I have seen elsewhere are often low end models, not always all that well looked after and rarely ever set up for the riders weight nevermind any other aspect of set-up.
Where have you ridden the SX Rayban?
Interesting bike for sure.
I’d be wary of rental DH bikes myself.
no idea what BPW or anywhere around that area’s rental bikes are like but a lot of the rental DH bikes I have seen elsewhere are often low end models, not always all that well looked after and rarely ever set up for the riders weight nevermind any other aspect of set-up.Where have you ridden the SX Rayban?
Interesting bike for sure.
BPW DH bikes are Trek Sessions. Not top line, but decent. My mate hired one last time and they changed the rear spring and set up the fork for him, so I'd say you'd get a reasonable idea of how a a DH bike rides there if you hired one.
JP
unless your racing at the sharp end, then I wouldn’t bother with a DH bike. They are a very specific tool but utterly useless anywhere else.
a lot of the rental DH bikes I have seen elsewhere are often low end models,
Admittedly in whistler, but the ones I’ve rented have all been top of the range, carbon framed v high spec bikes. V10s, Demo 8s, sessions, and wlsns. You give them your weight when you book and they swap springs accordingly, then help with set up before you take them out
Freeride bike!
They do still make them don't they? Of that what the commie SX is?
Where have you ridden the SX Rayban?
Interesting bike for sure.
The Alps, Revs and the Peaks, no more of a bitch to pedal than my Riegn was - easier up steep loose stuff actually due to the fact that the CS lengethens instead of shortens around the sag point under compression.
64.5 degree head angle with 180mm forks (Commencal confirmed geo charts were with a 170 for some insane reason), 75 degree seat angle - 465mm reach - 180mm of travel - 40mm of which is rearward!
It's a machine!
It's loads different to ye old freeride bikes, mines full coil and it's still 35lb with 1.5 plies! Climbs much nicer than the old freeride bikes did - but basically it's a DH bike with extra reach, a steeper seat angle and a wide range cassette. Air and go all out on the build and you'd get it down to 30lb.
How about something like a Liteville 601? It's my only bike and use it for local stuff, bike parks & Whistler. Climbs really well for a 190mm bike, mine is about 31lb with a study build (Yari 180, X2, Saint/XTR, EX511's etc)
The frame is rated for dual crown forks too so buy a 2nd set of forks for DH days 😉 That's what I'm tempted to do when funds allow..
A yt capra is rated for a dual crown fork. I would get one of them and a spare dc fork for down hill days.
Just buy a recent second-hand one. Try it for a while. Only you know the answer.
A recent second-hand one will be cheap enough to sell on if / when you realise its a bad idea. You may not lose much if any money and if its recent it will have decent kit and modern geo.
That's good to hear Tom. 'bout time places actually set-up rental DH bikes for the rider.
Sounds nice Ray. although that 40mm of rearward wheel path must surely all be used up in sag. no? or do you mean the first 40mm after sag point?, Also most DH bikes these days can be built to 35-6lb without too much trouble. my two old DH bikes (Session/Sunday) are 35 and 37lb respectively with boxxers/saint/DH builds so adding dual plys you're pretty much at DH bike weight with your build.
any piccies? *hopes it's a murdered out BLACK one*
yes get a DH bike
I'm coming to my senses and think I will go for a 'superenduro' type thing.
I've taken my Patrol down the 50 01 line at revs and all the DH runs there and had a great time doing so. I do bottom it out front and rear on pretty much every run I do however, so something around 170mm - 180mm and longer may be better for my needs.
29ers and coils both have my curiosity, even if the big wheels might not be as good for jumping and messing around. Progressive linkage, big travel enduro 29ers are a bit thin on the ground though. There's the Capra which is never in stock (and cant see any pre-owned in XL), or Whyte G-170 (poor spec on cheaper models compared to YT).
If i stick to 27.5, there's more options including the Supreme SX mentioned, or the Clash that seems to have replaced it, or Canyon Torque, etc.
If you want a big bike, just buy one.
I like them and think they're a lot of fun; there's nothing quite like the feeling of battering down a track on one. Yes modern endure bikes are hugely competent, bit if you can afford to have one a DH bike is a hoot (imo).
The Clash is a bit meh. 165mm rear - looks like a generic euro 4 bar bike. Commencal discontinued the SX because no one was interested in reviewing it or buying it until Pierron went on a winning streak - now they are selling what they have left pretty well.
A bit silly on Commencals part if you ask me.
The Clash will be more playful, the Supreme SX is the perfect Mega-Avalanche weapon.
How about that Canyon Torque or one of the 200mm travel Radon Swoops? Bit more travel without being full on dh....
Sounds nice Ray. although that 40mm of rearward wheel path must surely all be used up in sag. no? or do you mean the first 40mm after sag point?, Also most DH bikes these days can be built to 35-6lb without too much trouble. my two old DH bikes (Session/Sunday) are 35 and 37lb respectively with boxxers/saint/DH builds so adding dual plys you’re pretty much at DH bike weight with your build.
Air forks, small cassettes, no dropper post etc contribute to that. I could get mine down to 33 with coil if I wanted to throw money at it.
The 40mm isn't all around the sag point actually.
The idler also removes the pedal kickback in rock gardens.
There are few specific things going on with the bike that really make me feel confident whilst riding:
1) You can ride the bike more like a motocross bike, you can put more weight through your pedals in a wide range of scenarios without worrying that you're to get upset or your pedals are going to going to get ripped from under you by a really jarring square edge hit. This means less arm fatigue and a more confidence inspiring central position on the bike.
2) The chainstay length that increases under compression. This effects jumping and manualling less than you think, I had to change my jumping technique a tiny little bit to account for it - but not much at all. The upside is, is that the suspension design and lengthening chainstay means that A) You don't get that horrible feeling of your arse being over the rear axle. It makes you feel more sat in the bike in hairy sections B) Under hard cornering the bike weights up the front wheel to an extent on it's own accord - this works well with the fact that you can place more weight through the pedals - I don't need to weight the bars up as much to grip and can use my feet and body in a more central position to drive the bike through corners.
It's ****ing awesome.
Oh yeah and it erases rock gardens like they don't exist.
Downsides are that it's a very planted bike, so it's not the most playful thing in the world and it's a bit portly. But if you want a DH strength frame that has the right geometry for a bit of climbing and simply the best descending capability of any bike that isn't designed for pure DH, I think it's great.
Surely a full on DH bike will be more durable than a long travel enduro bike. Just get a second hand DH bike if you do not pedal up. There's loads of bargains about as they loose there value quickly.
My SX is basically exactly the same as the DH frame. That's why I thought it'd be good for the OP. 8.5lbs-9lbs of aluminium - but in a package that's better suited for the odd bit of climbing.
On the weight front -
XTR cassette, XTR mech - would lose me about 250g from my current setup.
Pedals could lose 100g
Seat could lose 100g
Front axle could lose 30g
Lighter bar and Stem combo would lose about 80g
Carbon wheels would lose about 150g
Brakes could lose 150g if you went with something lighter than Codes, eg Formulas.
Then you'd lose about a 2lb by going air both ends.
Standard builds and other builds on pinkbike come to around 30-31lb, so my hanging scale could be off I guess!
Proposal: buy more than one DH bike!
Yes - maybe one of those Commencal bikes plus an hardtail...lets say like a Dartmoor Hornet with 180 mm fork...
One bike is never enough!
Just buy an electric downhill bike. That way it will go up hill well too.
stevied
Subscriber
How about something like a Liteville 601? It’s my only bike and use it for local stuff, bike parks & Whistler. Climbs really well for a 190mm bike, mine is about 31lb with a study build
Careful! Last time I recommended a Liteville for something I was accused of picking a niche brand that was never the answer for anything...;-)
Another that comes from the 'you need more than one bike'. I have 3 road bikes, 2 MTB's.
DH bikes are very specific - what you going to do about keeping 'pedal' fit with a full on DH bike. You need a DH and then a trail/enduro bike - two minimum I'd say. Or 1 Enduro !
Light fighter, out of interest what was your method of getting the dropper cable past the main pivot axle and the sheath with the three cutouts.
The supreme sx does seem good but I'd be nervous about buying one without trying one first due to the unique pivot. I do really like jumping.
On the multiple bike front.. I do have a road bike for commuting and a DJ for skateparks mostly. In an ideal world I'd probably have a DH bike and a trail bike too but can't justify/afford 2 right now.
Careful! Last time I recommended a Liteville for something I was accused of picking a niche brand that was never the answer for anything…;-)
But they just look so good & ride so well 😉
Mine's changed a bit since this was taken as gone full 27.5" on EX511's, X2 shock etc..
If I bought a dh bike again I'd avoid a race geometry i.e 63 Deg ha. I had a commie supreme V3 that I was probably too slow and unskilled to get the best out of. It was fun down champery but anything less felt lumpen for me. I had mch more fun on my old geo Wilson
Quite a lot of bike for £1280:
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/cube-hanzz-190-race-27-5-suspension-bike-2018/rp-prod165570
Did not take too long but yeah without the cable guide kit I would have to go back to my Vyron lol.
Oh wow, you managed to do it without removing the swingarm? That said, I didn't use a cable guide kit.
The supreme sx does seem good but I’d be nervous about buying one without trying one first due to the unique pivot. I do really like jumping.
It jumps, like a downhill bike, I would say it just requires a mild weight balance change on jumps but that's it. All bikes will require a bit of adjustment anyway.
Where do you ride?
The 180mm Capra looks good if you can't get a leg over one.
The Cube is far too short for me. It seems Commencal only have Supreme SX's up to a size M too which is no good. Capra would probably be ideal if I could find a 2018 onwards model when they got big enough.
I ride at bike parks like revolution, descend and push up ones like Havok and Farmer Johns. Also jumps in local woods, occasionally trail centres and have some desire to do some 'proper' natural mountain biking in Snowdonia, peaks, Lakes, etc. but not got round to any of that yet. I came from BMX background so enjoy jumps, drops and general messing around. Hoping to do the Alps and Fort William this year too.
https://www.commencal-store.co.uk/Mobile/frame-supreme-sx-black-2018-c2x23825320
They have L frames in stock. If you want a full build ask them nicely if they can transfer the frame to a fully built bike.
If you're near Sheffield you could have a quick spin on mine, might not be up there for a few weeks but if my old mans out for a ride I guess he could bring it along.
There's a 20" Hanzz frame here for £360 (no shock).
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/cube-hanzz-190-hpa-race-27.5-frame-red-n-lime-833460
If you really only ride DH I see no issue
Geex nails it in the second response.
second hand dh bike. second hand trail bike.