[Closed] Talk me out of 1x11 over 1x10

on one hand I'd like 10speed for better realibility (important in a long trip)

If you picking the same range with an extra cog then it's going to be closer, in the end whats the $$ difference?

No difference in reliability between 10 and 11 spd imho.

The same 11spd chainring/cassette/chain lasted the whole tour divide for me.

1 x 11 isn't a panacea of smooth even shifting, it's still a bit clunky with a wide range cassette, plus if you have sram you can start saving now for when your cassette needs replacing.

Gx cassette is about the same price as XT.

Just not sure i see the point of 11 speed.... Sure it's one more.... but... anything else ?

It's a 100€ difference, not so big (unless I go with the 10t cog but 11-42 is fine for me)

I guess more speed = smaller parts and easier to fail.
Also newer = less easy to supply in a overseas trip.

Is that 20% gap a big deal?

Gx cassette is about the same price as XT.

Yes, but it's the bottom rung of the SRAM 11spd ladder, the better variants that are more akin to XT can get pretty eye watering

Just not sure i see the point of 11 speed.... Sure it's one more.... but... anything else ?

2x11 shimano is the smoothest shifting gearset I've owned, although with an 11-32 cassette

I haven't seen 11 speed that works nicely yet. I mean technically, it works perfectly. It's just the noise. Really clunky and notchy with big gaps in the gearing.

I think you're over thinking it

2x11 shimano is the smoothest shifting gearset I've owned, although with an 11-32 cassette

what do you mean by smooth ? I press the button, it goes down, i press it again, it goes down again.... In the reverse, it goes up.... etc. What makes it 'smoother' ?

I didn't notice any crazy change going from 1x9 to 1x10... Sure, i've got an extra gear or smaller gaps between, but how many times as an MTBer do you need/have a perfect cadenece for a perfect section, very rare... i'd bet ever with 20 gear spread there'd still be times when you're thinking "it's just not quite 78rpm"... But does it matter if it's 76 or 80 instead ? Hell, not in my world.

weeksy - Member
Just not sure i see the point of 11 speed.... Sure it's one more.... but... anything else ?

[img] [/img]
😉

but it's the bottom rung of the SRAM 11spd ladder, the better variants that are more akin to XT can get pretty eye watering

As does XTR. Check the weights of XT v GX, GX is lighter and every bit as tough, if not tougher.

I have XT on one bike and GX on the other, once the XT does, I'll be changing the freehub and going GX on both.

Gx cassette is about the same price as XT.

Yes, but it's the bottom rung of the SRAM 11spd ladder, the better variants that are more akin to XT can get pretty eye watering

GX 10-42 can be had for £75.

XT 11 speed 11-46 is about £65-70 so yes, similar.

Sunrace 11-46 is about £55.

The GX might be next to bottom in the sram range but don't go thinking it's not on a par with XT. If you go spending X1 upwards money just because you think GX is low rent then you know what they say about a fool and his money!

GX weight is lower than XT and all steel. I am not a fan of 10T sprockets vs 11 but I am equally not a fan of aluminium cassette sprockets for general use as you get on the 11-46 cassettes.

There is a massive jump between Sram NX and GX. The next stage X1 is a massive hike in price for not much in terms of weight gain IMO.

As for 10 speed then an XT cassette is £35ish and like a feather compared to their 11 speed ones. But if you then add a range expander then you are doubling the cost and getting a system that is flawed so just bike the bullet and go 11 speed if you wan a 1x system.

if you then add a range expander then you are doubling the cost and getting a system that is flawed

indeed there are. Forgot about those which is odd as I normally tell people to buy them instead of expanders. The system will still not be as good as the mech is not designed for that range. You can get it to work, and make it better with new cages and goat links etc but that's more expense.

you may be able to use an 11 speed mech with a 10 speed system bit for the sake of a new shifter I would just go 11 speed.

I went through all this and came to the conclusion it was easier to just stick 11 speed on and go ride...

I'd go with 11 speed. It's just as reliable as 10 speed. Cassette wise I'd go for a Sunrace 11-46, particularly if you're touring as the aluminium sprockets on XT seem to be made of the weakest aluminium imaginable.

I think Shimano really messed up their 11s cassettes. The XT 10s is over 100g lighter than the XT 11s and the 10s has all steel teeth. The setup on the XT11s 42T is very finicky too for back-pedal drops (chain line). Not having access to an equivalent SRAM setup I can't be certain it's any different though.

I'm slowly moving back to XT10s + expander and keeping my M8000 mech and shifters. It's worked fine on one of my bikes so I'll do the other the same soon.

SRAM GX 11s didn't exist when I went 11s Shimano but if I was picking parts for a build now and it wasn't going to cost much different to choose either... I'd go GX11s cassette just for a change. If I feel flush at some point I'll buy xD Driver bodies and GX cassettes for mine but as it is the only time I've noticed the gap in my 10s setup is on a pan flat canal towpath, the rest of the time it's felt absolutely no different to the 11s setup.

Building up a new bike recently I went 11 speed. I'd been 9 speed before that and didn't see much point in adopting something that had already been "superceded" (yes, I know that 10 speed stuff will be around for years).

There's no reason for 11 speed to be any less reliable or robust either. While there are concerns in ingredients arguments that chain wear could be greater on 1x than 2x, my experience of our hire fleet of bikes is that 9 speed has proven to have longer longevity than 8 speed.

I'm about to fit a Sunrace 10sp to the Shan frame I've just bought, to make use of my old 9sp Hope hub laced to a Mavic rim. I'll let you know how it compars to the 11sp e-13 TRS on my Capra

The system will still not be as good as the mech is not designed for that range. You can get it to work, and make it better with new cages and goat links etc but that's more expense.

I know that 10 speed stuff will be around for years

I've just been shopping for 10sp stuff and it's not all that readily available tbh

jonnyboi - Member

Yes, but it's the bottom rung of the SRAM 11spd ladder, the better variants that are more akin to XT can get pretty eye watering

GX is very equivalent to XT tbh. Shimano are absolutely nowhere when it comes to 11 speed cassettes. Though it's all a bit of a muchness if you can't fit it!

Not convinced there's any reliability difference between 10 and 11 though. 11 speed's actually more reliable than a non-expanded 10 speed mech- you can get them shifting well but there's little margin for error.

IMO if you're not getting the wider range, 11 speed doesn't have that much advantage. 11 speed can be a fair bit lighter when you're dealing with wide ranges but it's pricier to do so. But it depends how you feel about ratio gaps, I've always liked wider gaps anyway (I had a stupid 12-25 cassette on a road bike for about 2 weeks and literally always doubleshifted it frinstance) but ymmv... I can see it might be a bigger deal for touring

OTOH, the prices are getting close too so there's not that many reasons not to go 11, bearing in mind that the mechs are native wide-range (you can bodge it with 10 speed but I was never 100% happy with it til I fitted a radcage, and that costs) I just put 10 speed on a new build basically because I had the stuff, and because Saint 10 speed is the best bloody shifter ever.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/au/en/shimano/cassettes/mtb-cassettes?f=2247,4294963637&_requestid=1064970
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/au/en/shimano/derailleurs/mtb-rear-derailleurs?f=2247,4294963637&_requestid=1066076
Seems fairly healthy

I've never snapped a 10 speed chain but have personally seen more than one 11 speed chain snap. The owner in the (not my) LBS had snapped three. I don't know if this is a problem or not as everything I own is 9/10 speed.

And cost! 10 speed stuff's two bob a hundredweight 😀

I never got my 10spd shifting right with a 11-42 Sunrace 10spd, was going to buy a new mech but then prices are so close now that I just went full 11speed (sram nx mech & shifter, sunrace 11-40 cassette)
It's a lot better shifting wise, as the prices are so close I would just go 11 speed.
Don't bother with the NX shifter though, seems a bit suspect to me..

my 2 cents .......

I went 1x11 about this time last year following an Evans offer on XT M8000 bits.

It was all going on a new build so I thought I would give 11speed a bash having used 10speed on my other bikes.

Honestly .... If I were doing it again I would go 10speed or save up(!) and go 11speed with a SRAM offering but not the GX range (due to it being a comparable weight to XT)

Why?

There is no getting away from the fact the 11 speed XT cassette is a boat anchor - which is a disappointment.

I currently use two Sunrace cassettes; a 11-40 & 11-42. The 11-42 was a little noisy to start but both are nice and smooth now.

I don't factor weight, I'm riding loaded over long distances so reliability is the key factor for me.

I'm still 50%-50% 😐

GX is very equivalent to XT tbh. Shimano are absolutely nowhere when it comes to 11 speed cassettes. Though it's all a bit of a muchness if you can't fit it!

No experience of shimano 11spd mtb cassettes, only shimano road 11spd.

But I think my point is still valid. Unless your bike is spec'd with sram GX you'll either have to go back down the range or pay a huge premium to maintain the same groupset.

May not be a real world issue due to the performance of GX but it still shows that SRAM higher end cassettes are super expensive

X01 - £205
XX1 - £225

I'd certainly put GX above 10sp XT, the shifter feel on the twistie is the same as the X0 and has the same internals, the cassette is lighter than XT, looks better, lasts better from my experience (and a few others) - it also doesn't have the added feature of the chain dropping 😉
X0/XX1 shares some of the same stuff with some small differences like carbon cranks

And yes, I've an X01 cassette on my bike that will need replacing at some point, and don't fancy the cost or the alternative that is a weight penalty of circa 200-250g #firstworldproblems #weightweenie

Just get 11-46 sunrace 11spd

or 10-42 sram if your hub can be modded.

I'd go 11 speed, 1x10 is a faff, I've got a sunrace cassette and the shifting/noise with a standard Deore shadow+ mech feels like it's always at the point of exploding. Ran out of money before bought a RAD cage, and a goatlink won't work.

Went back to an 11-36 and grunting, might go back to 2x ultimately, if my dropper post doesn't stop being a knob.

https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/xg-1199-x-dome-cassette
https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/xg-1150-full-pin-cassette
It's 130g
The 11-42
http://bike.shimano.com/content/sac-bike/en/home/components11/mountain/deore-xt-m8000/cs-m8000.html
is 434g so 140g more than the superior XT one which has the less durable Alu cogs...

Aye, but SRAM having better options than any of the competition can offer doesn't make their cheaper options worse than the alternatives. If you'd have been happy with XT on your bike, there's no reason to feel bad about "dropping down" to GX- it gives the wider range and comparable performance for a similiar price to XT.

And if you wanted XTR then the equivalent is 1180 at about £150, not the XX1 at silly money- that'd be the equivalent of XTRRR or something. (and still, XTR has a 10% narrower range to boot)

Am I right in saying SRAM 11 speed cassette max range is 10-42, i.e. no 10-46 or 11-46? So if you want want a wider range with SRAM than the 10spd Shimano 11-42 (with expander cog and RAD cage I have at the moment) you would need to either go down a size on the chainring or mega money Eagle?

10-42 is pretty much the range same as 11-46.

Am I right in saying SRAM 11 speed cassette max range is 10-42, i.e. no 10-46 or 11-46?

34/46 0.69
34/11 3.09

thing about range is it's not all about the big number. SRAM 11 has a great range, the 10 makes a bigger difference than you think, though a mate rode past me with eagle in the lowest with a bigger chain ring spinning away 🙂

I presume shimano did the 11-46 to match the sram 10-42. (418%v420%).
I reckon it comes down to what you already have. I would use a sram cassette/xd driver if speccing wheels from new. If I had an existing wheelset and couldn't swap to an xd driver, then I would go shimano or sunrace.

My tuppence- I've only just given in and bought 11s over another 10s wide range cassette because the clutch and pivots on the mech all seem to be pretty much worn out so I'd probably need a new one of those too. Brings the difference in cost between the two options closer.

If you're buying new, I see no point in not going 11s. If you're going to be getting a wide range 10s you'll very possibly want some sort of mech modification/bodge like a rad cage. Even if you only take the 11s 11-42 you have the option of the 11-46 at a later date (or some of the XD ones if you get the freehub). Why tie yourself in to something limited now when you have a clean slate?

I wasn't bothered about the weight when I went XT 11s either (I was doing it because of a knee pain at the time and wanted the 42T)... but I am now. I know it's all central in the wheel but I am surprised how much nicer it feels when you sling on the XT 10s instead (just set the low limiter to cut off 1st gear)... and go ride up a climb. It's noticeable and I didn't believe it would be.

XT M8000 rear mech works perfectly with 10 speed cassette, and expander with a 10 speed Shimano shifter.

I guess the pivot/upper jockey wheel locations are more like a radR cage.

Aye, but SRAM having better options than any of the competition can offer doesn't make their cheaper options worse than the alternatives. If you'd have been happy with XT on your bike, there's no reason to feel bad about "dropping down" to GX- it gives the wider range and comparable performance for a similiar price to XT.

And if you wanted XTR then the equivalent is 1180 at about £150, not the XX1 at silly money- that'd be the equivalent of XTRRR or something. (and still, XTR has a 10% narrower range to boot)

This. I'm really not sure what Shimano are up to with 1x11. I have a feeling they're deliberately not competing because of their trickle down cycle - possibly they feel Di2 electronics, gearboxes or e-bikes will take off in the mainstream before they get the development or tooling back from entering an arms race with SRAM in 1x11 land.

The [url= https://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/xg-1150-full-pin-cassette ]1150 GX cassette[/url] isn't just the same price as the XT cassette, it's lighter - and it's the bottom rung, fully pinned, all stamped steel job so can be expected to be longer lived too. Shifting across it is fine. I've got X01 on another bike and as a group it's undeniably nicer, but most of that is the shifter and mech. That bike's almost certainly getting a £75 GX cassette when I wear out the expensive one. I'm running the GX bike with a X1 shifter because it's only an extra tenner, looks nicer and the old logic says that control comes from the shifter so I tend to have nicer triggers than mechs.

Dispassionately, reasons for running Shimano 1x11 are tribal, cost (keep the old free hub) and preference for one trigger ergonomic over another. Technically and in fully realised range, SRAM have them hands down beaten on this one.

vincienup - Member

Dispassionately, reasons for running Shimano 1x11 are tribal, cost (keep the old free hub) and preference for one trigger ergonomic over another.

I'm using XT shifter and mech on a sram cassette. Ironically, it used to be the other way round, I liked sram shifters but shimano 9 and 10 speed cassettes were always the smart choice.

Thing about the freehub is you can usually recoup some cost, and there's yet another weight saving- if you care, the XD freehubs are typically about 20-25g lighter than an alu freehub body. And provided you don't mangle it, they don't wear in the same way either.

The XG-1150 is £95 on CRC then another £54 to convert the freehub body to XD (Pro 2 Evo - I think different bearings to my Pro 2, so would also need hub body bearings, axle and end caps to take it to Evo spec).

The XT 11-42 £60. I know it's not the same range, but I rarely use the 11t as it is, so not sure what I'd gain with a 10t, the SRAM mechs are minging, and I don't like the action or ergonomics of the shifters.

Sticking with XT. Had 15 months out of my M8000 11-42 across 3 chains, with a bit of re-profiling with a chainsaw file on the 42t, 13t and 15t cogs.

The 1150 GX cassette isn't just the same price as the XT cassette, it's lighter - and it's the bottom rung, fully pinned, all stamped steel job so can be expected to be longer lived too. Shifting across it is fine. I've got X01 on another bike and as a group it's undeniably nicer, but most of that is the shifter and mech. That bike's almost certainly getting a £75 GX cassette when I wear out the expensive one. I'm running the GX bike with a X1 shifter because it's only an extra tenner, looks nicer and the old logic says that control comes from the shifter so I tend to have nicer triggers than mechs.

Dispassionately, reasons for running Shimano 1x11 are tribal, cost (keep the old free hub) and preference for one trigger ergonomic over another. Technically and in fully realised range, SRAM have them hands down beaten on this one.

Turns out that NX is bottom rung, whuch is where I was getting my weight differences from.. something like 535g for the cassette.

the hub thing is interesting, it can work both ways. I was looking to get a new cx bike that had 1x11 sram but the wheels on it are crap. if I want to swap over my nicer, lighter wheels that currently run shimano then I need to factor in the freehub changes.

teethgrinder - Member

The XG-1150 is £95 on CRC

Or £75 from Tweeks or Merlin.

teethgrinder - Member

the SRAM mechs are minging, and I don't like the action or ergonomics of the shifters.

Me neither so I use an XT mech and shifter on a SRAM 11 speed cassette.

since it passed unnoticed on page one can I just call

The same 11spd chainring/cassette/chain lasted the whole tour divide for me.

#humblebrag

😉

Fair enough (if Tweeks have it 😆 ). Would still have to convert driver, axle and bearings.

thanks everybody, i think i'm going to pull the trigger on 1x11 11-42

sunrace or shimano?

Interesting that so many people have such varied experiences of the same kit.

It must be either bodging home tinkerers, crap LBSs or frames with unusual chain lines.

I run a 1x10 Sunrace (11-42) with the most basic of Deore clutch mechs and my LBS says it's the best working system they've put together....cost all in?....less than £100.

By all means spend more but its not necessary if setup properly!

I run a 1x10 Sunrace (11-42) with the most basic of Deore clutch mechs and my LBS says it's the best working system they've put together....cost all in?....less than £100.

It's still not near the gx for feel though.

I run a 1x10 Sunrace (11-42) with the most basic of Deore clutch mechs and my LBS says it's the best working system they've put together....cost all in?....less than £100.

Similar experience, running 11-40 (shimano cassette with a SS expander) using an M615 mech, it works well and cost very little, I wouldn't fancy stretching it to a 42t sprocket TBH but 11-40 (32t chainring) is perfect for me right now...

Having said that, if I had the spare cash I would probably just opt for XT 1X11 with an 11-46 just because I'm not much into SRAM...

mikewsmith - Member

They must have updated the mech as the xt on my 11-42 conversion would have ripped itself apart without the rad cage (vwey common observations from the lbs - I fitted it myself so no wool over eyes)

The standard, medium cage XT 10 speed's always been able to do 11-42, or at least for as long as you could buy 42T expanders it has (I was a pretty early adopter) It does vary depending on chaingrowth and exactly where and how the mech's located on the bike- mech capacity isn't just about gears.

The radcage repositions the jockeys but it doesn't really do anything drastic to the mech. Basically it makes it work better- fixes the shifting etc and means you don't have to go so mad with the B screw

It wouldn't on a lot of bikes around this way, it is too sensitive for chain growth for it to be a shoe in though.

Yeah, I'm sure it could make the difference- same thing that destroyed so many short cage zees. "But it says it can do 36T!"

Anyway there is a certain smugness to see the SRAM haterz on their smaller range heavier kit blissfully unaware of the nice stuff from SRAM 🙂

Fit a granny and stop messing about.

dirtydog - Member
Fit a granny and stop messing about.

[quote=Northwind ]Yeah, I'm sure it could make the difference- same thing that destroyed so many short cage zees. "But it says it can do 36T!"

i've been running a FR Zee mech on 11-42 for about 750 miles now. works perfectly.

i've been running a FR Zee mech on 11-42 for about 750 miles now. works perfectly.

who knows. I was surprised it actually worked when I fitted it but it was all I had a the bottom of my spares box so I gave it a go.

Zee worked on a 40t on my Spitfire.

thanks everybody, i think i'm going to pull the trigger on 1x11 11-42

sunrace or shimano?

Why not 11-46? Then you can go with a slightly bigger chaining and get a better top end.

mikewsmith - Member

Can we then assume that it's not universial and therefor the frame and suspension design will play a huge part in that then?

Yup, exactly that.

The XT 11-42 £60. I know it's not the same range, but I rarely use the 11t as it is, so not sure what I'd gain with a 10t, the SRAM mechs are minging, and I don't like the action or ergonomics of the shifters.

You would also put a smaller ring on the front so the 10t would be used.
You would lose a bit of weight.
And depending on the chainring chosen, you would gain either a higher top gear or a lower bottom gear vs a 11-42....

The perfect system IMO is Sram GX cassette 10-42 on XD freehub hub, with XT M8000 mech and shifter.
Second best is a sunrace 11-46t cassette, your old free hub and a larger front chainring.

Question I have, and apologies if this has been covered but I've not seen it in here or via other searches. Is it possible to use a GX rear mech with a 11-46t cassette?

Main reason I ask is I prefer sram and picked up a GX mech for £70 yet current wheels are almost £90 for the XD Driver. The GX mech says maximum big ring on the back is 42.

Can I just use a longer than normal b screw??

Why not 11-46? Then you can go with a slightly bigger chaining and get a better top end.

BTW I'm using road shifters (it's a drop bar)

The Altus M310 rear derailleur is no doubt not helping, but I despise the shift to the bailout Megarange 34T sprocket (from 26T 2nd) on the Wazoo default cassette, even though it gets barely any use since replacing the hideous Vee Mission Commands.

1st ride on the Shan with 1x10 last night - 32t Absolute Black oval and 11-42t Sunrace with XT shifter/mech.

Had no issues with shifting - adjusted the barrel once to fine tune.

Range wise, didn't notice any difference at the low end to my Capra with 1x11 - 32t round/e-13 9-44t. Was spinning out a bit at the high end though

I run 1x11 and it all works fine if the cables are new but it can soon lose accuracy once things get older and muckier.

I'm actually tempted to go back to 10spd, just because it's more consistent.

[XTR shifter, XT mech, 30t oval, Sram 10-42 cassette]