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I wasn't debating that dogs carry the parasite, just that they aren't the only carrier.
No-one ever claimed they were the only carrier though did they. Classic straw man/whattaboutery, as is your stuff about pencils.
Irresponsible but it is the latest bike accessory. If you want to do it then do it somewhere that isn't dedicated to cycling.
Irresponsible
Why? i saw no-one else out at all last night. I got a ride, he got a run.
I could have just taken him for a shit in the park...
I've never heard a dog owner admit that their dog:Worries sheep
Shits on paths and it doesn't get cleared up
Attacks people
Runs at/in front of people on bikes
Is not under their control (or often anywhere near them)
No to sheep. Although you might want to ask the sheep.
No they don't go on the path unless there is a problem. A month or so ago one of my dogs did have a problem and I went back up the road with a bucket of hot soapy water and a brush and cleaned the pavement.
No
Yes the young one is a nightmare when I ride and tries to bite the front tyre, having successfully destroyed one UST, I 've very wary with my RR, but have developed an successful counter defence to his exuberance. The old one has retired from the cycling club but was very good and had far better endurance.
Under control, yes...... deaf sometimes yes. Will they go off on their own. No. Will they go up to people. Yes if curious but you can prejudge this.
I don't like the local park or common as there are numerous issues. Rubbish being one, the other being human crap, which dogs seems to have a sixth sense for. So I don't allow my dogs to get out of sight.
Where jambo?
Stick a Pamper on it and train it to stay on your wheel, when it learns to draft you can go a bit faster.
I find many dog owners in my local woods to be particularly inconsiderate, but then others are respectful. You can't keep tabs on what it does away from you and many owners are blind to their dogs aggressive behaviour. Equally some owners train their dogs well and they are lovely.
Dog eggs on the trail and having to stop mid flow due to someone's pet are unforgivable in a centre. Equally someone hitting the dog, or hurting themselves from having to stop abruptly is avoidable.
Take the dog to the park/woods/countryside/hills/etc, take your bike to the trail.
Local woods/moors. Mix of open moorland, woodsy singletrack and a sustrans cyclepath.
we even saw some little lambs and he didnt rip their throats out. I was so proud.
Some people really need to wake up and stop living in their bubble - on both sides of the fence. As I have said before dog walkers who don't pick up after their dogs are a bigger menace to responsible dog owners more than anyone else as we walk those routes more and some dogs like to roll in it. I also have a problem with people who drop litter, cigarettes, chewing gum, syringes, condoms. That is why I moved out of the city - to get away from humans who are the most disgusting species by a long way. Out of all the times you have been ill in your life how much can you put down to animals and how much to other peoples poor hygiene or coughing etc?
I love the idea of riding with my two retrievers but before I go out I ask myself a few simple questions. Will I be able to ensure (in no particular order)|
1. Their safety
2. Other dogs safety
3. Other animals safety
4. Other people's safety (man eating flatcoats!)
5. My safety
The answer then comes pretty obvious, albeit not the one that I would like! Walk the dogs, ride the bikes! Just not at the same time IMO.
The ground nesting birds thing is questionable. If an area is open to bikes on trails then taking a dog along too is no problem - but (and it's a big but) only if the dog sticks to paths and doesn't go wandering.
I think that going to trail centres at quiet times every so often is ok, I wouldn't take him regularly or on a busy weekend. Everything else is fair game.
My lab started at 1 year old but for no more than an hour with lots and lots of breaks to let him rest.
Nay bloody things are irritating. Take it for a walk.
we even saw some little lambs and he didnt rip their throats out. I was so proud.
So you had your dog off the lead in a field with sheep? During lambing season? No I can't see how that's irresponsible at all.
Out of all the times you have been ill in your life how much can you put down to animals and how much to other peoples poor hygiene or coughing etc?
TBH getting ill isn't my primary concern. I have no problem with well behaved dogs and responsible owners. Unfortunately there's far too many that aren't responsible at all (many of whom kid themselves that they are, it would appear).
I've never heard a dog owner admit that their dog:
Worries sheep - [b]I have, and they keep their dog away from sheep and MY sheep why they come to visit[/b]
Shits on paths and it doesn't get cleared up [b]I have and I told them it's disgusting[/b]
Attacks people - [b]I have and I told them to sort it out, one way or another[/b]
Runs at/in front of people on bikes [b]Seen it plenty and they grab their dogs to try and keep control and you can see why the dog is the way it is. Also seen lots of people run out in front of people on bikes or in front of cars or other people walking etc or riders dump their bikes in the middle of the f'ing trail on a trail centre to fix a puncture[/b]
Is not under their control (or often anywhere near them) [b]and yet again, had lots of people struggling to control dogs and asking for help and found lots of dogs wandering round[/b]
And yet......[b]and yet the biggest menace to everyone and everything is not dogs, it is humans. Humans doing stupid/inconsiderate things, dropping litter, not cleaning up after dog, killing people on purpose or by accident, causing pollution with just about everything they do....etc etc etc etc[/b]
I've never heard a dog owner admit that their dog:
Worries sheep
Shits on paths and it doesn't get cleared up
Attacks people
Runs at/in front of people on bikes
Is not under their control (or often anywhere near them)
1) Yes, happened a couple of times when she was young. But never to the point of endangering them (or any unborn lambs).
2) Again yes if it's dark and I can't find the poo / i don't see it happen. [i]EDIT for the idiots: This is a probably has happened, not a happens regularly.[/i]
3) Never happened
4) No, she is very bike aware. Her default position is drafting the back wheel.
5) She is often no where near me if I deem it to be appropriate.
And for the record i've taken the dog round Cwm Carn, Afan, Brechfa, Llandegla, CyB, Penmachno, Quantocks, Exmoor and only ever had positive comments from other riders.
And yet......and yet the biggest menace to everyone and everything is not dogs, it is humans. Humans doing stupid/inconsiderate things, dropping litter, not cleaning up after dog, killing people on purpose or by accident, causing pollution with just about everything they do....etc etc etc etc
That's just more whataboutery (taken to extreme levels) - if you're up in court for murder try saying 'yeah but what about genocide in Rwanda' as a defence and see where it gets you.
'My inconsiderate behaviour with my dog isn't a problem when you compare it to people killing each other' is a ridiculous argument.
phil.w - well I guess at least you can admit the anti-social nature of your dog ownership. Shame you don't seem too bothered though. If you say she is often nowhere near you then she probably often shits on the trail and you don't clear it up. Nice.
Maybe you shouldn't take her out in the dark if you aren't going to be able to clear up her shit.
jam bo - Member
Local woods/moors. Mix of open moorland, woodsy singletrack and a sustrans cyclepath.we even saw some little lambs and he didnt rip their throats out. I was so proud.
That's not a trail centre then so why try to argue?
Riding around a trail centre with a dog: NO
Riding around local trails with a dog: YES provided dog is under control when necessary as if would you were walking it.
Riding around around estates and busy roads: NO absolutely 'kin not. One thing I hate is kids and adults riding along pavements with their dogs pulling in all directions.
FTR, I wouldn't take our Springer on a trail ride due to the distance covered. I have done lots of XC running with him though.
well I guess at least you can admit the anti-social nature of your dog ownership. Shame you don't seem too bothered though. If you say she is often nowhere near you then she probably often shits on the trail and you don't clear it up. Nice.
Thats quite a jump from what I said.
I answered the questions honestly and accurately. Something that has happened once or twice doesn't make for anti social behaviour. So no I'm not bothered to try and appease you judgmental attitude.
Yes, I admitted she has probably taken a shit on a trail at some point over the last 4 years, not that it happens regularly.
She is often not near me as most of the time we are in the middle of fields, farmers fields, where she can shit where ever she likes.
She is often not near me as most of the time we are in the middle of fields, farmers fields, where she can shit where ever she likes.
Wow. Unbelievable.
Have the farmers told you they're ok with that then?
Why? i saw no-one else out at all last night. I got a ride, he got a run.I could have just taken him for a shit in the park...
After 3 everyone, 2 wrongs don't make a "....."
Wow. Unbelievable.Have the farmers told you they're ok with that then?
What an odd comment when you know nothing about the situation. You seem to be jumping to many a conclusion just to suit your own argument/prejudices.
Specifically have I been told "your dog can shit in the field"? No. But it's more than inferred since she's often with the farm dogs and that's exactly what they do.
Would you like to visit the farms in question with me? If you ask nicely I'll even get one of the dogs to round up a couple of sheep for you. (and shit on command at your chosen location)
Wow. Unbelievable.
Have the farmers told you they're ok with that then?
Are they the same farmers who are spreading chemically washed Human shit all over their fields????
Check out the Welsh stance on "nutrient enrichment" from doggie poo 🙂 actively encouraged from what i read.
It's not about me having priority over you, it's about having a dog that's not under your control running around on trails built for biking (and do you think you are picking up all of it's turds?) - it's just irresponsible.Typical of the sense of entitlement of many dog owners though.
This, I think dogs are ace and miss my black lab mucho but just cos you love your dog and trust it doesn't mean everyone else does.
Typical of the sense of entitlement of [s]many dog owners though[/s] most people, most of the time.
It's not about me having priority over you, it's about having a dog that's not under your control running around on trails built for biking (and do you think you are picking up all of it's turds?) - it's just irresponsible.
Typical of the sense of entitlement of many dog owners though.
It goes back to experience for me, most of the problems on trails have been with other people not dogs, the only dog problems I have had were dog walkers in the forest with roaming dogs running onto the trails. Most people who take dogs out at trail centres have dogs who can handle it. Shame the exceptions stand out....
If the question was about coming round a corner and wiping out little Johnny who's dad though he was ready to ride red trails but he was just wobbling round it would be all the bikers fault for going too fast round corners.
I've never heard a dog owner admit that their dog:Worries sheep: [b]he has hearded sheep of his own accord on occasion yes[/b]
Shits on paths and it doesn't get cleared up [b]NO! he likes do do that in long grass or bushes at the side god knows why as it a PITA to clean up and YES i Do!
Attacks people [b]has never attacked anyone that didnt deserve it, i.e the theiving TW*T trying to steal my bikes, and never will[/b]
Runs at/in front of people on bikes [/b]never really did in the fisrt place but after i ran him over one day he now steers well clear of oncoming bikes[/b]
Is not under their control (or often anywhere near them)[/b] No he's never under my control really, and does chose when to listen but he's never out of eyesight, and always comes when needed[b]And yet......
Same can be said of parents etc. most are responsible, some are not. That goes for people too. I've had more issues on trails form inconsiderate areswipes on bikes than I ever have from dogs.
[b]+1[/b] there are far more inconsiderate and down right rude idiots on bikes who dont GAF about anyone else but themselves out there than any person on a bike with their dog
and to people saying its a fashion these days to be seen with dog,,, I have been MTB'ing with my dogs since the 90's
I forgot that I did a cheesy little edit with Ashka last year. She was pretty young so took fairly easily. Not much in the way of wondering into the woods eating sheep:
Anyone up for a doggy forum ride Monday at Thetford? Early start mind as mine is still not bike friendly he has a habit of getting in the way still.
(Before you all start its tongue in cheek, unless anyone wants to get going at 6am from the Brandon side so I'm clear before the rush).
I agree with the majority. Dogs should be banned from trail centres. Blanket ban, not just at busy times. Cleaning dog mess off my bike is as vile on a Monday morning as it is on a Sunday afternoon.
My Cocker comes to Swinley occasionally with the kids of an evening. Managed a 48 min Blue route. Kids ride first, then dog, then me, thus not holding people up for their Strava runs. And yes I pick up and bag the crap and put it in my rucksack to dispose of later. Had a nice comment about this last time he came.
His lines are dreadful though 🙄
Not fun coming round a corner at a trail centre to find a dog in the middle of the track. Personally, although I grew up with dogs around & my parents still have dogs, trail centre's are not the place for them. Trail centre's are one way, bike only routes, that allow riders a little more freedom than your standard bridleway where you have to always consider oncoming walkers etc. (although I have had a run in at a trail centre with walkers coming up the track...they complained we were going too fast, we politely pointed out the "no walkers" sign a few yards behind them, yet they continued up the track!)
Was it the off the lead and out of control spaniel that decided to sit in the middle of the second last double at Swinley last Sunday? The one that forced me and the person behind to come to a complete stop and came very close to causing an accident? That one was in front of its owner.
Rode swinley yesterday, and on my strava run (flame away) on the fastest bit of the blue came round a blindish right handler into a left berm/climb and almost straight into a riders dog which surprised by the sudden sound of skidding decided stop and run right across in front of me, and then do the bark / pretend to bite your ankle thing.
Starting to piss me off. Dogs should not be at trail centres, especially where like swinley they have been built to encourage people to push it.
As for the dog crap argument, yes it's annoying but I am far more concerned about hitting a dog or it biting me....
timidwheeler - MemberI agree with the [s]majority.[/s] usual suspects who are making the same old anti-dog arguments against the same old pro-dog arguments from the other usual suspects
😉
on the fastest bit of the blue came round a blindish right handler into a left berm/climb and almost straight into a [s]riders dog[/s] small child out for his first ride
Was it the off the lead and out of control spaniel that decided to sit in the middle of the second last double at Swinley last Sunday?
No it wasn't. We only stop mid section if one of the kids stops. The dog stays between us at all times. And we only go when it's quiet.
Not fun coming round a corner at a trail centre to find a dog in the middle of the trac
Would you say the same if it was my son? The point about the trail centre is that it is for all abilities. I like to blast around as fast as possible on my own too (still chasing sub 28 min for Blue run). But when I'm riding with the children (and sometimes dog), I ride to the child's abilities. If that means somebody's "Strava run" is ruined, suck it up and push it on the firetracks and climbs. That's what I do.
Bridle ways towpaths etc yes dog bring your dog I will when I have one
Trail centres, I don't think they should, I nearly took out a Labrador that ran out in front of me at swinley once and the owner had a go at me,
I'm a pro dog person and I find it in conceivable that anyone would take one to a trail centre.
What next,track days at Brands Hatch?
I'm not personally in favour of [I]"Trail Dogs"[/I] While I sort of see the appeal and it lets people kill two birds with one stone (walk their dog and get out on the bike), it just ups the risks for other trail users, it's a purely selfish act IMO...
Owners seem generally unconcerned about their dogs getting in other trail users way and assume that the rest of us are as comfortable as they are having to avoid running dowm their pets...
TBH OP You've got too much going on even if it is a "slow ride", your riding a bike, supervising your kids, there are other forrest users and your mutts running about off the leash so I really don't think you can claim it's under any sort of control can you, which is of course your primary responsibility within the law as a dog owner.
Either walk your dog or, if you have no time to look after it properly, get rid of it...
A dog is not a cycling accessory its a pet.
Hopefully your son would not try biting me when he is startled nor run in front of my wheel.
Despite near dog accident, safely passing a school group several dads and kids I made a 25.15 this was mid week morning when I was expecting / hoping it would be clear. I won't ride there at weekends after yesterday's experience simply as it will be too busy / risky for someone who wants to push it.
I love dogs too, I just can't see how owners can't grasp how it is an extra unnecessary danger to riders and dogs....
The likening a small child to a dog is plain dumb. Small children move slow and and stay staitionary/ follow the trail. Dogs on the other hand move fast zig zag over the trail and when startled act unpredictably. To pretend they behave the same and give the same level of risks shows you have not encountered many of these situations,
Either walk your dog or, if you have no time to look after it properly, get rid of it...A dog is not a cycling accessory its a pet.
Thanks for that super-patronising summary.
My dog is under my control when I ride. I do pick up after him (he doesn't crap on the trail anyway, prefering to find himself a nice patch of grass). He's also wormed regularly, so the toxocara argument falls on its arse - if you'll excuse the pun.
So I'm going to keep riding with him where and when I feel it is safe to do so. I'm sorry if the very thought of that offends some of you.
Not that we have a dog but it's on the cards. Thinking about a wee Russell or fox terrier so have been thinking about this myself. IMO...
Nay to a trail centre...too busy and the potential for upending some one else or pissing people off is fairly high.
Yes on your local trails. Less busy (maybe not) and lets face it...most local trials are used by dog walkers anyway.
Thanks for that super-patronising summary.My dog is under my control when I ride. I do pick up after him (he doesn't crap on the trail anyway, prefering to find himself a nice patch of grass). He's also wormed regularly, so the toxocara argument falls on its arse - if you'll excuse the pun.
So I'm going to keep riding with him where and when I feel it is safe to do so. I'm sorry if the very thought of that offends some of you.
Some people clearly need a bit of patronizing.
Dog owner's estimation of "Under control" seems to vary pretty wildly TBH, Some would never dream of taking their dog down bike trails where fast moving bikes could squish their four legged, surrogate child...
Picking up it's Shite is your duty as an owner anyway, would you like a round of applause or something?
Letting it run along side your bike on trails which have other users to consider tells me you don't really give a shit about anyone else though, I take it you do the same on "not too busy" roads then?
Swinley and Thetford have both been mentioned, where you'll find riders of all abilities heading in both directions on some trails.
you've basically added a new unexpected, unpredictable, low level, mobile, furry obsticle for other people to have to deal with, and you have no way of knowing how they will react. So long as your happy though...
If your dog needs walking then why not actually take it for a bloody walk? what's so terrible about the idea?
You can still go to the woods to do that. Let it off the leash if you like, so long as it's trained and responds to your commands then I'd say it can be controlled adequately, with you on foot you have a better chance of actually being aware of what your dog is doing, where it is and a better awareness of what is going on around, you can call it to heel or sit far sooner when you hear approaching bikes.
Of course like many other Dog owners your a bloody expert and can't be told, and the rest of us should apparently accommodate your inability to GAF...
Fine then, You bought it, you apparently care for it and if your OK with someone like me unintentionally maiming it and then billing you for a replacement front wheel then carry on being a prick...
then carry on being a prick...
Nice. Aren't you a charmer. Your insights into me are fantastically accurate and I have now learnt my lesson.
Glad to have helped