Well it's that time of year again. Riduculous Sportif riding returns to the Surrey Hills! Saw tonnes of riders on Pitch Hill pull out of side roads in front of cars...hurl abuse at car drivers who were just doing their best not to run them down...made me embarrassed / ashamed to be a local cyclist tbh! Local council are holding a meeting soon to discuss the mtb / road cycling "problem"...makes it more difficult to defend!
Pass the biscuits....... 🙄
Shall I put the kettle on?
Despite having ridden in the Surrey Hills for just on 20 years I now look to see if there's yet another sportive being run on a Sunday and if there is I go somewhere else as the standard of riding and riders is on the whole so poor.
Get over it, it's a bunch of cyclists in a prime cycling location. For every twunt cyclist you show me, I'll show you a dozen twunt drivers.
Local council are holding a meeting soon to discuss the mtb / road cycling "problem"
I would be genuinely interested to find out where you heard that?
Can someone help me out here - Sportive riding is basically paying someone to ride somewhere you could already right? Whats the appeal?
[quote=benpinnick ]Can someone help me out here - Sportive riding is basically paying someone to ride somewhere you could already right? Whats the appeal? Site: http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum enduro
I can see the day the Sportiv's will be required to have dedicated marshals if they are to have permission to run the events. They can try and hide behind the language but these are races / time trials like any other.
Where is this Surrey place you speak of?
Congratulations on finding your way out of the classifieds.
Your trolling needs a bit of work though, sorry.
Well it least they pay for using the site I guess..
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Mr P, if ever there was a need for the second and third words to be swapped, that's it! 🙂
There's 'hills' in Surrey? B@{]$#1t
cha****ng - fair shout!
slimjim - toys going back in pram...am over it!
Grace how's the shoulder holding up ? How's the new ride ?
There's 'hills' in Surrey? B@{]$#1t
There's two things you need to know about Box Hill.
1. It isn't a hill
2. See #1
A friend was doing some work down on the south coast and contacted a local club to go out for a ride. All through the ride they were talking about some hill coming up. Eventually my mate stops and asks where this hill is - "You've just climbed it" was the reply. "God help them if they come up here" was his verdict.
Whats the appeal?
Sense of occasion.
How is it trolling?
I know some on here seam to think that cyclists should be beyond criticism, but living in the area I agree with the OP. There appears to be organised events most weekends from Easter onwards, sending 100's or 1000's of riders up narrow single track roads.
It's all very well saying "boohoo, you live in a busy part of the world, suck it up", but all these events and poor riding standards make us (cyclists) very unpopular with others, and I can often see their point.
As someone who rides more than they drive I also know that there are lots of crap drivers on the road too, but that wasn't the OP's point.
CaptainFlashheart - MemberMr P, if ever there was a need for the second and third words to be swapped, that's it!
Obliged (if anyone knows where .png files can be uploaded, flickr renders them on a black background)
[url= https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8689/16969416042_500bbccaf3_o.pn g" target="_blank">https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8689/16969416042_500bbccaf3_o.pn g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/rRwGbE ]le sportif coq[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/7614571@N05/ ]thisisnotaspoon[/url], on Flickr
Ooh, that's good! (Any chance of changing it to Sportive as well?) You may be on to a winner here! 😀
Re sportives in general, as above, they can hide behind all the twaddle, but they're races. Races ridden by people who don't know how to race on the road*, and from the monthly or more that come through my way, they don't really know how to ride on the road either. After every one, the local lanes are full of gel wrappers, as well. Asshats.
Put that sort of mass ****tery in a place that's already got problems with the huge numbers of people coming out from London to enjoy what is, it must be said, glorious countryside, and you have a problem.
There will come a time of much, much stricter regulation. Sportive organisers would do well to try and pre-empt the worst that this could bring.
* I don't either, I should add. Only ever raced off road
Any chance of changing it to Sportive as well?
That would require actual work, and according to wikipedia
Cyclosportive is short for the French term randonnée cyclosportive (the spelling cyclosportif is sometimes also used but cyclosportive is correct as randonnée is a feminine noun in French).
Re sportives in general, as above, they can hide behind all the twaddle, but they're races. Races ridden by people who don't know how to race on the road*, and from the monthly or more that come through my way, they don't really know how to ride on the road either.
Maybe for the first 100 or so at the front, for the other 900+ it's just and excuse to go ride somewhere different without needing a map.
Agree with the general standard of riding and f***wittery though.
actual work
Sod that for a game of soldiers! 🙂
There's two things you need to know about Box Hill.
1. It isn't a hill
2. See #1
A friend was doing some work down on the south coast and contacted a local club to go out for a ride. All through the ride they were talking about some hill coming up. Eventually my mate stops and asks where this hill is - "You've just climbed it" was the reply. "God help them if they come up here" was his verdict.
Box Hill is about the easiest climb on the North Downs. It's a very nice climb. But it's by no means tough - big ring in the saddle job. There are tougher climbs. there aren't long climbs, but I do more climbing without trying than some friends who live in Lancashire and Yorkshire.
+1
Follow plenty of riders from more hilly places and my road rides have similar amounts of feet climbed.
I do sportives when the other half is away - nice to know someone will sweep up the pieces if it goes wrong on a hundred miler. Haven't done Surrey - prefer the dales and the lakes. Plus they're nearer. I also race but women's races are a bit short...
The ****s per square km ratio is higher in London than anywhere else in Europe. And with the increase in the popularity of cycling, there's obviously a good chance some of them are going to find their way onto the public roads on a push bike.
Gutting to say the least, but there's not much you can do about it, other than move.
No hill is hard if the gradient is less than about 15%. You just stick it in a gear your comfy with and tap out in zone three all day long. Any hill is hard though if you climb it in zone four or five. i can ride box hill in as much pain as say Winnats Pass if I try hard enough.
I've hosted a few riders from the "North" who've regretted not giving the South Downs Way a bit of deference.
As an aside, I've never really got this whole "we've got proper hills up here" chip on the shoulder thing. Made them did you? Carved them out? If not, then it's an accident of birth or postcode, get over it.
I've hosted a few riders from the "North" who've regretted not giving the South Downs Way a bit of deference.
Highest point Butser Hill, 270 m (890 ft)[1]
Lol, 270m! Where I'm from, the highest point is over three times as high as that. And I have to climb it carrying this massive chip on my shoulder!
Best description I ever heard of the north and south downs was that the climbing will break you 'by stealth', as in no one hill gets you but you're cumulatively knackered. When I first rode in the peak district (my furthest north at the time) I was surprised at how few climbs a ride contained. They were chuffing enormous to my mind then though!
Total ascent of the south downs way is 3600 meters. Would love to be fit enough to do 110 milesand that climbing in a day 🙁
As an aside, I've never really got this whole "we've got proper hills up here" chip on the shoulder thing. Made them did you? Carved them out? If not, then it's an accident of birth or postcode, get over it.
Have you been to the grim North? It's obvious there's little else to crow about apart from the terrain, let the poor bastards have their bit of fun.
So we've gone from the OPs point about some cyclists not helping "the cause", as it were, and are now just squabbling about who has bigger hills?
No, the northerners waded in and did the 'hills in the South?! Hahaha!' Thing. Personally i really wish we had more shit desolate moorland down here. No, wait, I dont.
Yep. That's STW.
On the original point there are a minority of dicks on these rides but, as usual, they're only really causing danger. To themselves.
I came across an event on the top of Ranmore/White down last year when I was driving against the flow. Despite crawling at well under 20 mph I still had to break sharply a couple of times for riders who felt the need to overtake other riders as I reached them. Still, it was the car in front revving it's engine and accelerating hard between groups that was the real problem and road danger.
On the original point there are a minority of dicks on these rides but, as usual, they're only really causing danger. To themselves.
Trouble is that it isn't so much danger and the negative public opinion and ill feeling their behaviour drives. We all get tarred with that brush.
It would appear that those in the south haven't heard of jokes 8)
Back on-topic ...
Yes there are some prats in all walks of life and they let others tar the rest of that group with the same brush.
It would appear that those in the south haven't heard of jokes
Eh? You mean your anecdote was a 'joke'? Hilarious, bet you're a hit at parties 😐
[i]It would appear that those in the south haven't heard of jokes[/i]
The flat cap and whippet defence?
I was on a Sky ride last year and I was utterly gobsmacked at the standard/consideration of drivers to us around the Macclesfield/Jodrell bank observatory bank area. It was beyond contempt.
At one point in a tight spot a bloke drove AT us spinning his wheels presumably to make a point.
The others were drivers pulling out and going for an overtake clearly when theres a car oncoming already too close. Plenty of those.
Maybe in the OP's situation/description people fall into an subliminal assumption that they are in some sort of agreed rolling closed road event.
I've encountered road rage (towards me) from a group of road cyclists when I was driving in the Surrey Hills. I patiently waited up a climb, round a bend (all too dangerous IMO to overtake on knowing the road), a good while later they bunched up and out and still blocked the way- eventually I got passed and beeped once which triggered an element to get lairy (it felt like they were goading drivers tbh). Maybe I shouldn't have beeped (once) but then they knew I was behind them for a longtime too being intentionally blocked.
The UK north vs south hills one-upmanship must be quite amusing to those from countries with actual mountains.
I read an article recently about how roads and tracks were formally used by everybody as public space and the first cars were something of an intrusion on those. Soon after, heavy motor industry lobbying and paid journalism changed the public subconscious to: "roads belong to cars" and any other users began to be thought of as "guests" on the roads or somehow in the way of motorists. Quite sad really.
Actually the anecdote was told to me by a London policeman so not a northern dig at the south.
[quote=njee20 ]Trouble is that it isn't so much danger and the negative public opinion and ill feeling their behaviour drives. We all get tarred with that brush.
In the same way all drivers get disrespected because a few of them go round driving dangerously and killing people? Oh wait...
Whilst I'm not usualy one to stereotype, the cycling club average down here is quite big with the occasional climbing whippet, even amongst the racers compared to Northerners.
I spent 2 years working in Teesside and didn't dare go out with the local club, my neighbour (who would already fall firmly in the the climbing wippet catergory down south) was dieting in preperation for the Fred Witton, but it turned out that wasn't the real target, it was just a training ride in the run up to Great Dunn Fell in Cumbria, a climb 2km shorter than Bealach-na-Ba, but with even more height!
In the same way all drivers get disrespected because a few of them go round driving dangerously and killing people? Oh wait...
Things is, when people find out I ride a bike for fun, its not unusual to get moans about how they were held up behind a group of cyclists, buzzed too close by a mountainbiker, sworn at by a roadie etc. etc. (and we don't pay road tax, we jump red lights)
When people find out I drive a car I don't get moaned at about someone one else reckless driving.
Cycling is a sport and a minority activity, so yes, we often do get tarred with the same brush. A bunch of riders behaving badly in a particular area WILL affect how other riders are seen in that area.
Cycling is a minority activity?
No its seen as something people stop doing or grow out of as its cold/damp/too much hassle.
Bikeshops, bikes galore for children and adults UK wide.
"[i]No hill is hard if the gradient is less than about 15%. You just stick it in a gear your comfy with and tap out in zone three all day long.[/i]"
You're [i]maybe[/i] allowed to say that once you've done Bicinglette de Ventoux (max 12%) without grimacing once.
Until then, put it away and zip it back up 😉
Seen some shocking riding on the road, the worst being a group of riders head down sprinting passed some poor sod on a horse - taking up both sides of the road as i was coming the other way.
Saying that I see far more dangerous driving on a much more frequent (almost daily!) basis.
Oh, and...
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Minority crap cyclists meet minority crap drivers in honey-pot locations......next?
njee, the hills stuff is just a joke by Northern folk. I ride in the Lakes and in Surrey - a hill, is a hill, is a hill irrespective of the postcode
although watching Cav launch an attack on Barhatch Lane two years ago (I think) suggests that his version of a hill is different!!
a hill, is a hill, is a hill irrespective of the postcode
...and the limiting factor on total climbing you can do on a ride is almost always the gaps between hills rather than the hills themselves. I live in the north and regularly ride some of the UK's highest roads but struggle to get much more than 3500m of climbing into a 150km ride (without lots of repetition) simply because the roads round here are relatively spread out. You could easily do the same in much of the south.
But then it's surprising just how much climbing or rather up and down there is on "flat" rides - rode Skipton-Windermere-Skipton once and the stats were 200Km with over 3000 metres of climbing yet driving the same route you'd say it was pretty flat. Lots of rolling little climbs add up. Look at the Fred Whitton and add up the climbing for the named hills and you'll be well short of the total for the ride.
At one point in a tight spot a bloke drove AT us spinning his wheels presumably to make a point.
Maybe he just recognised you? 😉
yes we know. That was aracers point (I think)When people find out I drive a car I don't get moaned at about someone one else reckless driving.
a few drivers being dicks = oh dear a few bad people
a few cyclists being dicks = ZOMG! cyclists are such ****s
because people are basically generalising idiotsA bunch of riders behaving badly in a particular area WILL affect how other riders are seen in that area.
njee, the hills stuff is just a joke by Northern folk. I ride in the Lakes and in Surrey - a hill, is a hill, is a hill irrespective of the postcode
Is it? I think many genuinely think you can't do more than 10 feet of climbing in a 100 mile ride down here.
yes but we know better!
But ssshhhh, don't tell too many otherwise the roads will be overwhelmed! 😉
Is it? I think many genuinely think you can't do more than 10 feet of climbing in a 100 mile ride down here.
but you can choose to do a flat ride if you want to. every ride is a hilly monster down in pastyland.
I Know - I can do 4 metres of climbing in half an hour on the turbo trainer must be hell to only get that amount in ten hours out on the road 😀
[quote=D0NK ]because people are basically generalising idiots
Which was my point - that is the problem, not a few cyclists riding like dicks (well reckless drivers are also a problem - in fact I'd suggest that you ignore people who's driving is far more of a problem than those cyclists several times a day because it is so normalised).
it would appear you have plenty of altitude gain available down there njee, SDW sounds pretty hard core (and oh so tempting). You still appear to be a bit short on the hills front tho.Is it? I think many genuinely think you can't do more than 10 feet of climbing in a 100 mile ride down here.
But it's what you do with it eh? In a (doomed to fail) rapha rising attempt last year I stupidly tried some hill reps, managed 5 before I got so bored out of my mind i almost went home. Went and did a few miles on rolling roads and more than doubled my ascent for the ride - much more enjoyable too.
Yes I guess that's fair. Plenty of altitude gain, just in fewer hills!
Brake. Not break. Damn you autocorrect.
good rate of ascent here : http://leithhilloctopus.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/
good rate of ascent here : http://leithhilloctopus.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/
br />
Hmmm... It's quite interesting trying to maximise rate of ascent using local stuff.
I've done this loop before which is 1672m in 65km (5485ft in 40 miles):
https://app.strava.com/routes/2035835
edit: plus according to geetee1972 there aren't really any hills on it...
That loop looks reasonably logical (on the map at least). It can be quite hard to come up with a loop that gets a lot of ascent without it looking like a map of someone's small intestine!
I've a local loop that does 1100 metres of ascent in 31Km - there's virtually no flat (or nearly flat) on it at all. Six main climbs and a small one that I get to do twice. It does however look like the aforementioned gut map 😆 It's also seriously hard work so I don't do it that often ...
1100 metres of ascent in 31Km
Ouch! Beats me, my hilly post work circuit is 1300m in 44km.
edit:
That loop looks reasonably logical (on the map at least).
Not just logical, it's spectacularly lovely.
It's a bit of the world I'm not familiar with unfortunately, really ought to get up there.
The Leith Hill Octopus looks a great route, and something i'll probably do in the summer. As many others have said London, and the South East are actually quite lumpy. No long climbs but certainly plenty that make to sweat.
My local hilly ride is 52 miles and 7,400ft of climbing. But that's hill repeats so can be shortened and lengthened.
As to the the original OP question I really don't get the hate to sportives. They're a brilliant way for cyclists of all abilities to ride a great route and distance fully supported, knowing that if anything goes wrong they have support. You do know that no everybody is confident enough to set off on a 100 mile ride on their own?
I really don't get the hate to sportives
The problem is when the number of such sportives in a relatively small area during a year means that there's pretty much a mass cycling event every weekend. And particularly with the "new cyclists" abhorrence of learning how to ride in groups etc etc
The problem is when the number of such sportives in a relatively small area during a year means that there's pretty much a mass cycling event every weekend.
It's not just Sportives. A couple of years back, in the same couple of square miles betwixt Godalming and Farnham there was an offroad sportive, cycling road race, orienteering competition, sponsored horse ride and MG owners'club annual jamboree, all on the same day.
Chaotic ain't the word!
Whilst I don't condone any kind of Road Hogging by groups of cyclists that plain fact is cycling is on the increase, which is a good thing, and slowly but surely we'll educate other road users to the fact that we're here to stay.
I do foresee a lot of angst in Surrey before any kind of "truce" is called, I suspect it'll take a few nasty incidents..
So all I'll say on this is don't become a statistic.
As for Hill's theres a few steep ones in That Yorkshire, it's a shame it's so far North.
My local hilly ride is 52 miles and 7,400ft of climbing. But that's hill repeats so can be shortened and lengthened.
Like the sound of that (assuming you mean it's in the Surrey Hills. Can you share a link on Strava or something?
As a member of Surrey Countryside Access Forum (LAF’s are a statutory consultation and advice groups used by the council set up under CRoW act 2000) we have been discussing issues over cycling in our recent meetings, and are currently working with other branches of the council towards a properly organised strategy (joined up thinking? we can but hope!) and identifying the ‘facts' about the problems, and distinguishing them from the ‘noise’ of anti cycling rhetoric.
At a recent meeting, I took other members (representing various user groups) over the facts about regulation of events, to some extent its a bit of a red herring, we are talking here about 19 events, thats far from being excessive - despite the comments made about unregulated events, most of the organised events or sportives have actually been authorised by the council and police official Safety Advisory Group, even though they don’t technically have to be - the issue seems to be however that the uninitiated see a group of say, twenty, out on a normal Sunday club run, and this gets reported back as another unauthorised ‘race’ or ’sportive’ when to you or I (or indeed the SAG or legislators) it was nothing of the sort.
I’ve also spoken to event organisers, and they complain of there being no single point or calendar created by the SAG which allows them to see what other events are going on in an area, also poor communication from the SAG over to parish councils etc - obviously this feedback has gone back to the council, and we hope for the SAG to attend the LAF in the near future to discuss their role in this, but in the meantime cyclists and event organisers are clearly getting the blame for issues that our out of their hands.
So, things ARE going on behind the scenes to neutralise much of this bad feeling, some of which is whipped up the the usual rabble rousers, There are undoubtedly some valid concerns over the pressure of so many cyclists falling in one spot, however in my experience a lot of the diatribe over 'events' is phantom conflict caused by sportives etc that never existed in the first place, which is probably why the police and National Trust are left scratching their heads.
A Surrey rural cycling management plan is in the early stages of development at the moment, I suspect that one of the clear outcomes will be to try and spread the load from a small number of honeypot sites, how that is achieved is going to be a long story.
Of course, people can do their bit by acting as ambassadors for our sport at all times, though maybe there are valid concerns over toilet facilities - I shall go back at the next meeting and suggest some well sited pissoirs!
One lesson that we all have to learn as a 'cycling community' is the increasingly political aspect of our sport, that we are sticking our heads in the sand and ignoring.
ten, twenty years ago nobody gave a toss about parish councils, now, like it or not, [b]they get listened to[/b] - it only takes one or two whinge re to make something into an issue, the only way to combat that is for us to be there, at the table, saying 'hang on a minute' when the bullshit comes out - we are all part of the problem by our own inaction!
cheers ninfan...lots of good points...and grateful for the efforts !
I suppose my point was not the volume of events...but just a tiny little strop about some of the cyclists behaviour. Just as we bitch about idiot drivers it was just apparent that you get plenty of idiot cyclists...and it seemed a whole bunch on them descended upon Pitch Hill on Sunday. I'm fairly certain any of the car drivers who seemed to be doing an admirable job at driving very considerately..(as they should of course)) did not expect or deserve the attitude and verbals for having the audicity to get in the way of the "peleton" and maybe slow them down (slightly....maybe). Which is why I was embarassed.
I somewhat disagree with a comment made earlier by someone who said these riders only endanger themselves...they dont...they also endanger other riders (one of the cars that was being [u]undertaken[/u] nearly hit a rider overtaking them! Also those who ride the areas afterwards tend to have to put up with the aftermath when the car drivers they've angered drive with less patience or consideration (even though obviously they shouldn't). I just think the organisers ought to do more to encourage more appropriate riding.
As an aside I very much enjoyed the off topic North-South trolling. The Surrey Hills are indeed not very big...but they seem quite good fun ... but then so is Yorkshire, Wales, Scotland, the Alps...etc. I'm not too fussed about strava or vertical metres etc if the views and the trails are nice !
Now heal collar bone - new bikes dont ride themselves!
As mentioned by Ninfan, one of the biggest issues are the 'phantom sportives' caused in my experience by poorly organised club runs. It is not unusual to come across groups of 30 or more blocking single track roads, often stopped in daft places waiting for a regroup or trying to work out whether to take the junction.
Most of the clubs concerned come out of south London (nice clear club colours so you can avoid associating with them). I get that cycling has massively boomed in recent years and I also understand that the run out from Epsom is one of the easiest if you come from Kingston, Sutton or Dulwich but don't all ride as one large bunch - a little common sense and set off in groups of 10 at 5 minute intervals. They virtually all ride with garmins so route setting would be a doddle and the smaller groups would help identity when someone is dropped. Riding in small groups of similarly paced riders would also reduce the stop time waiting for stragglers plus ( shock horror) different routes could be taken for a bit of variety
A lot of generalisation is always bandied about when talking about different groups.
Some drive like dicks, some ride like dicks.
I drive through west Chandon, shere etc to get to peaslake. I do see where OP is coming from. I've had some appalling behaviour directed at me.
Just hope. NOne of this affects mtb riding In the area
londons population is growing
cycling (specifically recreational road cycling) is becoming more popular
organised "events" are becoming more popular
organised sporting "events" are becoming hugely more popular
Theres little the couple of 100,000 people who live in the surrey hills can do about it against the 8 million or so people who live in London.
They cant expect to have there cake and eat it any more, ie live in extremely nice countryside but still be within 30 mins train journey of central london.
To be honest people living just outside london (me included) are lucky that the vast majority of people in London are either unaware or uninterested in the country side that isnt that far from their homes.
At the moment its generally white middle class professionals who attend these events is the rest of Lonond decided to turn up you wouldnt be even able to contemplate driving around the surrey hills.
geetee1972 - Member
Like the sound of that (assuming you mean it's in the Surrey Hills. Can you share a link on Strava or something?
Naaa not Surrey, well South East. Swains Lane in North London.
https://www.strava.com/activities/274706780
Naaa not Surrey, well South East. Swains Lane in North London.
https://www.strava.com/activities/274706780
Wow...