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Whilst I'm not usualy one to stereotype, the cycling club average down here is quite big with the occasional climbing whippet, even amongst the racers compared to Northerners.
I spent 2 years working in Teesside and didn't dare go out with the local club, my neighbour (who would already fall firmly in the the climbing wippet catergory down south) was dieting in preperation for the Fred Witton, but it turned out that wasn't the real target, it was just a training ride in the run up to Great Dunn Fell in Cumbria, a climb 2km shorter than Bealach-na-Ba, but with even more height!
In the same way all drivers get disrespected because a few of them go round driving dangerously and killing people? Oh wait...
Things is, when people find out I ride a bike for fun, its not unusual to get moans about how they were held up behind a group of cyclists, buzzed too close by a mountainbiker, sworn at by a roadie etc. etc. (and we don't pay road tax, we jump red lights)
When people find out I drive a car I don't get moaned at about someone one else reckless driving.
Cycling is a sport and a minority activity, so yes, we often do get tarred with the same brush. A bunch of riders behaving badly in a particular area WILL affect how other riders are seen in that area.
Cycling is a minority activity?
No its seen as something people stop doing or grow out of as its cold/damp/too much hassle.
Bikeshops, bikes galore for children and adults UK wide.
"[i]No hill is hard if the gradient is less than about 15%. You just stick it in a gear your comfy with and tap out in zone three all day long.[/i]"
You're [i]maybe[/i] allowed to say that once you've done Bicinglette de Ventoux (max 12%) without grimacing once.
Until then, put it away and zip it back up 😉
Seen some shocking riding on the road, the worst being a group of riders head down sprinting passed some poor sod on a horse - taking up both sides of the road as i was coming the other way.
Saying that I see far more dangerous driving on a much more frequent (almost daily!) basis.
Oh, and...
[img] 
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Minority crap cyclists meet minority crap drivers in honey-pot locations......next?
njee, the hills stuff is just a joke by Northern folk. I ride in the Lakes and in Surrey - a hill, is a hill, is a hill irrespective of the postcode
although watching Cav launch an attack on Barhatch Lane two years ago (I think) suggests that his version of a hill is different!!
a hill, is a hill, is a hill irrespective of the postcode
...and the limiting factor on total climbing you can do on a ride is almost always the gaps between hills rather than the hills themselves. I live in the north and regularly ride some of the UK's highest roads but struggle to get much more than 3500m of climbing into a 150km ride (without lots of repetition) simply because the roads round here are relatively spread out. You could easily do the same in much of the south.
But then it's surprising just how much climbing or rather up and down there is on "flat" rides - rode Skipton-Windermere-Skipton once and the stats were 200Km with over 3000 metres of climbing yet driving the same route you'd say it was pretty flat. Lots of rolling little climbs add up. Look at the Fred Whitton and add up the climbing for the named hills and you'll be well short of the total for the ride.
At one point in a tight spot a bloke drove AT us spinning his wheels presumably to make a point.
Maybe he just recognised you? 😉
yes we know. That was aracers point (I think)When people find out I drive a car I don't get moaned at about someone one else reckless driving.
a few drivers being dicks = oh dear a few bad people
a few cyclists being dicks = ZOMG! cyclists are such ****s
because people are basically generalising idiotsA bunch of riders behaving badly in a particular area WILL affect how other riders are seen in that area.
njee, the hills stuff is just a joke by Northern folk. I ride in the Lakes and in Surrey - a hill, is a hill, is a hill irrespective of the postcode
Is it? I think many genuinely think you can't do more than 10 feet of climbing in a 100 mile ride down here.
yes but we know better!
But ssshhhh, don't tell too many otherwise the roads will be overwhelmed! 😉
Is it? I think many genuinely think you can't do more than 10 feet of climbing in a 100 mile ride down here.
but you can choose to do a flat ride if you want to. every ride is a hilly monster down in pastyland.
I Know - I can do 4 metres of climbing in half an hour on the turbo trainer must be hell to only get that amount in ten hours out on the road 😀
[quote=D0NK ]because people are basically generalising idiots
Which was my point - that is the problem, not a few cyclists riding like dicks (well reckless drivers are also a problem - in fact I'd suggest that you ignore people who's driving is far more of a problem than those cyclists several times a day because it is so normalised).
it would appear you have plenty of altitude gain available down there njee, SDW sounds pretty hard core (and oh so tempting). You still appear to be a bit short on the hills front tho.Is it? I think many genuinely think you can't do more than 10 feet of climbing in a 100 mile ride down here.
But it's what you do with it eh? In a (doomed to fail) rapha rising attempt last year I stupidly tried some hill reps, managed 5 before I got so bored out of my mind i almost went home. Went and did a few miles on rolling roads and more than doubled my ascent for the ride - much more enjoyable too.
Yes I guess that's fair. Plenty of altitude gain, just in fewer hills!
Brake. Not break. Damn you autocorrect.
good rate of ascent here : http://leithhilloctopus.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/
good rate of ascent here : http://leithhilloctopus.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/
br />
Hmmm... It's quite interesting trying to maximise rate of ascent using local stuff.
I've done this loop before which is 1672m in 65km (5485ft in 40 miles):
https://app.strava.com/routes/2035835
edit: plus according to geetee1972 there aren't really any hills on it...
That loop looks reasonably logical (on the map at least). It can be quite hard to come up with a loop that gets a lot of ascent without it looking like a map of someone's small intestine!
I've a local loop that does 1100 metres of ascent in 31Km - there's virtually no flat (or nearly flat) on it at all. Six main climbs and a small one that I get to do twice. It does however look like the aforementioned gut map 😆 It's also seriously hard work so I don't do it that often ...
1100 metres of ascent in 31Km
Ouch! Beats me, my hilly post work circuit is 1300m in 44km.
edit:
That loop looks reasonably logical (on the map at least).
Not just logical, it's spectacularly lovely.
It's a bit of the world I'm not familiar with unfortunately, really ought to get up there.
The Leith Hill Octopus looks a great route, and something i'll probably do in the summer. As many others have said London, and the South East are actually quite lumpy. No long climbs but certainly plenty that make to sweat.
My local hilly ride is 52 miles and 7,400ft of climbing. But that's hill repeats so can be shortened and lengthened.
As to the the original OP question I really don't get the hate to sportives. They're a brilliant way for cyclists of all abilities to ride a great route and distance fully supported, knowing that if anything goes wrong they have support. You do know that no everybody is confident enough to set off on a 100 mile ride on their own?
I really don't get the hate to sportives
The problem is when the number of such sportives in a relatively small area during a year means that there's pretty much a mass cycling event every weekend. And particularly with the "new cyclists" abhorrence of learning how to ride in groups etc etc
The problem is when the number of such sportives in a relatively small area during a year means that there's pretty much a mass cycling event every weekend.
It's not just Sportives. A couple of years back, in the same couple of square miles betwixt Godalming and Farnham there was an offroad sportive, cycling road race, orienteering competition, sponsored horse ride and MG owners'club annual jamboree, all on the same day.
Chaotic ain't the word!
Whilst I don't condone any kind of Road Hogging by groups of cyclists that plain fact is cycling is on the increase, which is a good thing, and slowly but surely we'll educate other road users to the fact that we're here to stay.
I do foresee a lot of angst in Surrey before any kind of "truce" is called, I suspect it'll take a few nasty incidents..
So all I'll say on this is don't become a statistic.
As for Hill's theres a few steep ones in That Yorkshire, it's a shame it's so far North.
My local hilly ride is 52 miles and 7,400ft of climbing. But that's hill repeats so can be shortened and lengthened.
Like the sound of that (assuming you mean it's in the Surrey Hills. Can you share a link on Strava or something?
As a member of Surrey Countryside Access Forum (LAF’s are a statutory consultation and advice groups used by the council set up under CRoW act 2000) we have been discussing issues over cycling in our recent meetings, and are currently working with other branches of the council towards a properly organised strategy (joined up thinking? we can but hope!) and identifying the ‘facts' about the problems, and distinguishing them from the ‘noise’ of anti cycling rhetoric.
At a recent meeting, I took other members (representing various user groups) over the facts about regulation of events, to some extent its a bit of a red herring, we are talking here about 19 events, thats far from being excessive - despite the comments made about unregulated events, most of the organised events or sportives have actually been authorised by the council and police official Safety Advisory Group, even though they don’t technically have to be - the issue seems to be however that the uninitiated see a group of say, twenty, out on a normal Sunday club run, and this gets reported back as another unauthorised ‘race’ or ’sportive’ when to you or I (or indeed the SAG or legislators) it was nothing of the sort.
I’ve also spoken to event organisers, and they complain of there being no single point or calendar created by the SAG which allows them to see what other events are going on in an area, also poor communication from the SAG over to parish councils etc - obviously this feedback has gone back to the council, and we hope for the SAG to attend the LAF in the near future to discuss their role in this, but in the meantime cyclists and event organisers are clearly getting the blame for issues that our out of their hands.
So, things ARE going on behind the scenes to neutralise much of this bad feeling, some of which is whipped up the the usual rabble rousers, There are undoubtedly some valid concerns over the pressure of so many cyclists falling in one spot, however in my experience a lot of the diatribe over 'events' is phantom conflict caused by sportives etc that never existed in the first place, which is probably why the police and National Trust are left scratching their heads.
A Surrey rural cycling management plan is in the early stages of development at the moment, I suspect that one of the clear outcomes will be to try and spread the load from a small number of honeypot sites, how that is achieved is going to be a long story.
Of course, people can do their bit by acting as ambassadors for our sport at all times, though maybe there are valid concerns over toilet facilities - I shall go back at the next meeting and suggest some well sited pissoirs!
One lesson that we all have to learn as a 'cycling community' is the increasingly political aspect of our sport, that we are sticking our heads in the sand and ignoring.
ten, twenty years ago nobody gave a toss about parish councils, now, like it or not, [b]they get listened to[/b] - it only takes one or two whinge re to make something into an issue, the only way to combat that is for us to be there, at the table, saying 'hang on a minute' when the bullshit comes out - we are all part of the problem by our own inaction!
cheers ninfan...lots of good points...and grateful for the efforts !
I suppose my point was not the volume of events...but just a tiny little strop about some of the cyclists behaviour. Just as we bitch about idiot drivers it was just apparent that you get plenty of idiot cyclists...and it seemed a whole bunch on them descended upon Pitch Hill on Sunday. I'm fairly certain any of the car drivers who seemed to be doing an admirable job at driving very considerately..(as they should of course)) did not expect or deserve the attitude and verbals for having the audicity to get in the way of the "peleton" and maybe slow them down (slightly....maybe). Which is why I was embarassed.
I somewhat disagree with a comment made earlier by someone who said these riders only endanger themselves...they dont...they also endanger other riders (one of the cars that was being [u]undertaken[/u] nearly hit a rider overtaking them! Also those who ride the areas afterwards tend to have to put up with the aftermath when the car drivers they've angered drive with less patience or consideration (even though obviously they shouldn't). I just think the organisers ought to do more to encourage more appropriate riding.
As an aside I very much enjoyed the off topic North-South trolling. The Surrey Hills are indeed not very big...but they seem quite good fun ... but then so is Yorkshire, Wales, Scotland, the Alps...etc. I'm not too fussed about strava or vertical metres etc if the views and the trails are nice !
Now heal collar bone - new bikes dont ride themselves!
As mentioned by Ninfan, one of the biggest issues are the 'phantom sportives' caused in my experience by poorly organised club runs. It is not unusual to come across groups of 30 or more blocking single track roads, often stopped in daft places waiting for a regroup or trying to work out whether to take the junction.
Most of the clubs concerned come out of south London (nice clear club colours so you can avoid associating with them). I get that cycling has massively boomed in recent years and I also understand that the run out from Epsom is one of the easiest if you come from Kingston, Sutton or Dulwich but don't all ride as one large bunch - a little common sense and set off in groups of 10 at 5 minute intervals. They virtually all ride with garmins so route setting would be a doddle and the smaller groups would help identity when someone is dropped. Riding in small groups of similarly paced riders would also reduce the stop time waiting for stragglers plus ( shock horror) different routes could be taken for a bit of variety
A lot of generalisation is always bandied about when talking about different groups.
Some drive like dicks, some ride like dicks.
I drive through west Chandon, shere etc to get to peaslake. I do see where OP is coming from. I've had some appalling behaviour directed at me.
Just hope. NOne of this affects mtb riding In the area
londons population is growing
cycling (specifically recreational road cycling) is becoming more popular
organised "events" are becoming more popular
organised sporting "events" are becoming hugely more popular
Theres little the couple of 100,000 people who live in the surrey hills can do about it against the 8 million or so people who live in London.
They cant expect to have there cake and eat it any more, ie live in extremely nice countryside but still be within 30 mins train journey of central london.
To be honest people living just outside london (me included) are lucky that the vast majority of people in London are either unaware or uninterested in the country side that isnt that far from their homes.
At the moment its generally white middle class professionals who attend these events is the rest of Lonond decided to turn up you wouldnt be even able to contemplate driving around the surrey hills.
geetee1972 - Member
Like the sound of that (assuming you mean it's in the Surrey Hills. Can you share a link on Strava or something?
Naaa not Surrey, well South East. Swains Lane in North London.
https://www.strava.com/activities/274706780
Naaa not Surrey, well South East. Swains Lane in North London.
https://www.strava.com/activities/274706780
Wow...
They cant expect to have there cake and eat it any more, ie live in extremely nice countryside but still be within 30 mins train journey of central london.
But they still do, it's just busier than it was. That's not really any different wherever in the country, or even the world, you live.
Wow...
Note what time he started!
[quote=njee20 ]Note what time he started!
How do I do that? Is it a premium only thing?
How do I do that? Is it a premium only thing?
Dunno - it's just above the activity title for me:
[b]3:36 AM[/b] on Friday, March 27, 2015
Swains Lane x 30 (15 Solo/15 with Lucinda)
You have premium then? Because it's not there for me.
edit: I seem to get that info for my rides and the rides of people I follow, but not others
How do I do that? Is it a premium only thing?
I think you have to be following them.
You have premium then? Because it's not there for me.edit: I seem to get that info for my rides and the rides of people I follow, but not others
Well I am Premium, but I also follow Will, so I think that's probably what it is. Either way, I was bloody impressed at that motivation!
Naaa not Surrey, well South East. Swains Lane in North London.
That's bonkers - even allowing hill reps I'm struggling to beat that. Laps on Causey Hill in Hexham would work. Hmmmmm...
Naaa not Surrey, well South East. Swains Lane in North London.
https://www.strava.com/activities/274706780
An impressive amount of climbing for London, but that must be a seriously boring ride!
geetee1972 - Member
Like the sound of that (assuming you mean it's in the Surrey Hills. Can you share a link on Strava or something?
Naaa not Surrey, well South East. Swains Lane in North London.
https://www.strava.com/activities/274706780
This reminds me of a story I read this week about a contemporary of Merckx who thought if he couldn't out class Merckx he would at least out train him. So he set off at 5am one time to do a 300km ride only to find Merckx (who lived close to him) already on his way back!
I thought I was doing pretty well with my 6am rides into the office. But that 3.36M start makes me want to go to the toilet and check my manhood is still intact.
Chapeau Will.
They cant expect to have there cake and eat it any more, ie live in extremely nice countryside but still be within 30 mins train journey of central london.
One of the big challenges remains combating that, and maintaining a healthy rural economy so people [b]can[/b] live and work locally, one of the strengths here is home working and online businesses, which need things like super fast broadband and networking opportunities (business suite cafes for example) to support micro businesses, the other aspect is forestry and countryside jobs (surrey is the most wooded county in England, a horrific percentage of that is unmanaged and under-utilised) the future involves lots of biomass and wood heat, but they need people to do it and places for them to live, so that goes into affordable housing again, I suspect there will be a push towards planning caveats, eg agricultural/forestry dwellings
To be honest people living just outside london (me included) are lucky that the vast majority of people in London are either unaware or uninterested in the country side that isnt that far from their homes.
They are equally blighted by the fact that too many if the ones that are interested are of the chocolate box/pickled in aspic mentality
At the moment its generally white middle class professionals who attend these events is the rest of Lonond decided to turn up you wouldnt be even able to contemplate driving around the surrey hills.
True, but the ability to monetise their visits is very limited, I suspect many of the other visitor profiles would be easier to turn into local spend and thereby support the rural economy - one of the unsurprising things is that people are less bothered when they see local benefits - that doesn't mean they are willing to put up with people taking the piss though (or [b]a[/b] piss on the village green for that matter)