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My point was rather, that if your aim is to go for a ride, rather than ride a bike, does it matter.
I guess not if you're only going somewhere to be there and the bike just isn't part of it. There are some folk who'll ride any old thing and enjoy the ride for the place, people etc, I suspect those people are rare though. Bikes are such a part of the experience - cmofort, response/feedback, efficiency etc. There are some who obsess over the bike too much, I expect most of us are somewhere in between. Some of us will simply enjoy pone bike over anbother without knowing (or caring) why. Personally the ride experience is a whole thing - route, weather, people, fitness, bike/kit etc and I'd find it hard to seperate out the bike's influence in that. Hence I think it does matter, but I agree it's not everything.
RE Surly's tubing - there's 2 tube producers in Taiwan, one who make some tubes for Reynolds-badged frames and another who make some Columbus tubes. The ride feel ime is far less to do with the badge on the frame and far more to do with tube dimensions. Badges are material spec and some marketing value, that's all. Good ol' 4130 is brilliant stuff.
Surly have their own specs for their tubes also, just not third party branded
https://surlybikes.com/pages/some-things-about-our-steel
There are some folk who'll ride any old thing and enjoy the ride for the place, people etc, I suspect those people are rare though.
And so are Surly's. Whether by accident or design that seems to be their market. E.g. Surly make the Grappler (didn't the ECR previously fill the drop bar 29er/29+ niche?) , if you want it lighter, better ride quality, or just 'nicer' then Salsa will sell you a Cutthroat or Fargo in carbon, titanium, or just posher looking steel.
a Condor, which was a beautiful frame that I rode for about 15 years before it cracked. The Genesis that replaced it is nowhere near as nice to ride.
Based on the timing that's probably the diference between pre-CEN and CEN-pass frame tubes. Not saying that's why one failed but it may be related.
I still remember riding a late 90s Tange Prestige over my local hill and a feeling as if the BB area was twisting as the trail undulated. I could load that frame up and fire it into the next section of track. It was lovely.
At around the same time I rode a friend's carbon Scott Endorphin and could twist the stays out of position when I was standing on the pedals. That wasn't a nice ride! 😀
I've never ridden such a nice feeling steel frame as that Tange Marin above, but then that frame was cracked within a year.
There are some folk who'll ride any old thing and enjoy the ride for the place, people etc, I suspect those people are rare though.
And so are Surly's. Whether by accident or design that seems to be their market. E.g. Surly make the Grappler (didn't the ECR previously fill the drop bar 29er/29+ niche?) , if you want it lighter, better ride quality, or just 'nicer' then Salsa will sell you a Cutthroat or Fargo in carbon, titanium, or just posher looking steel.
Both are own by QBP in the US.
I have had a couple of Surly's a Karate Monkey and a Krampus.
They were both slightly niche and good fun. The chainline on the Krampus was a bit of a problem iirc as the chain would rub on the side of a Maxxis Chronicle in the lowest gear when you were giving it the beans. The sparkly bassboat green paint made up for that though.
I'm still annoyed they got nicked.
Both are own by QBP in the US.
That's what I meant, if Surly made a 'better' bike, it world be sold as a Salsa.
They also owned all-city, which is a shame as I always thought it was a rubbish name for a bike company. If it had Salsa on the downtube I'd probably have bought a nature boy or super professional!
if Surly made a 'better' bike, it world be sold as a Salsa.
Many people would stroke their beards at the thought of a better bike than a Surly.
The chainline on the Krampus was a bit of a problem iirc as the chain would rub on the side of a Maxxis Chronicle in the lowest gear when you were giving it the beans.
That’s why it went boost… but most people seem to be on 2.6 tires now so it probably doesn’t matter as much.
Surly made a 'better' bike, it world be sold as a Salsa
I don’t really like car analogies, but I guess Salsa is to Surly what Rangerover was to Landrover (Defender).
just made a list of the Surly bikes i have owned,
58cm grey LHT
60cm purple disc trucker
64cm black disc trucker
60cm racing green disc trucker
xl karate monkey in black
l karate monkey in light blue
xl krampus ops in black
xl ogre in silver
xl ECR in custard
xl ECR in turd colour
plus 2 x posh surly's. xl steel fargo and xl ti fargo.
wowsers................ ;o)
Good ol' 4130 is brilliant stuff.
Yep, used in that other icon of simple practicality the AK47 assault rifle.
But seriously my 1x1 is the first bike I go to if I just want to jump on and ride off, although at my age the style is more mooching than blasting along the trail. Second is a Cotic Simple, which is superfically similar but a totally different ride, less relaxed, much more nimble and sharper handing, although the straight fork probably accounts for some of that.
(I also wear check shirts, although I DO actually work with trees and drive an elderly LR Defender, so I seem to fit the sterotype described above)
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/bik/d/minneapolis-who-needs-marketing-manager/7873068830.html
How many other brands would do a soft launch for their updated ebike like this? 😂
Surly have their own specs for their tubes also, just not third party branded
Yes, sorry if not clear in my post - I was getting at how there's little real difference in the steel itself at that 'our own crmo' level, the (tube) dimensions make more ride difference. QBP have the volume to spec tubes the way they want. eg the bulge-butted DT on the Fargo.