Bubbles, my karate monkey, is a beast. That is all
Buy a bike you like riding. That said, the surly chaps are ace & that goes a long way in my book.
I do like their approach to trying stuff some other manufacturers wouldn't even dream of putting out there.
That said, even tho' I do look like a scruffier version of the chap in the photograph, I don't actually own one, but only because [i]my[/i] particular niche needs are perfectly fulfilled by another (steel-frame) company.
I do use their [branded] hubs on a lot of my wheel builds.
I have a SteamRoller singlespeed commuter. Mud guards and rack. Its nothing special, but its my commuter so do more miles on that than any other. Its not the lightest, but it certainly is comfy and very nice to ride. Cant fault it. Had a crosscheck too which I only sold as was too small.
I find Surly quite an innovative company. Loved the pugsly and the Krampus when they came out. Was there/is there anything to compare with these? The Karate Monkey was the standard for steel 29ers long before others. I think people see then as dull because their models stay for a long period of time - which is a testament to their good no frills design.
Surly is the bike you pick to do the job and not worry about beating it about a bit. The slightly extra weight means it can take it. The USA equivalent of the steel On-Ones.
A rider's bike.
epicycle talks sense....as per usual. 8)
I demand fancy tub profiles and butted tubing, not some undersized gas pipe!
The story I got from a salesperson (I think he was complaining about the price of a complete Surly build vs. other similar brands but it may have been a cunning reverse-psycology sales pitch) was that Surly actually invest more time and effort into the details you don't see, like internally rustproofing their frames, and frame size specific butting as opposed to just butting a standard length of tube and then cutting it down.
I'm still torn between a Straggler and a Traitor Crusade but that's a different thread...
Got a cross check primarily for commuting to work. It's also currently my only working bike so I also use it instead of my mountain bike off road.
It's not the lightest thing in the world but I'm not worried that I might break it. Angles are nice.
If I wanted a race bike I'd buy a race bike. The cross check does everything I need and more.
I'm a bit past caring if its trendy or not and I'm not bothered how others might perceive it or the company. For what I want it for its a great frame.
I really enjoy riding it.
But Surly first built the Pug what, 6 years ago?
a fatty on a pugsley on 25/6/2006 according to the EXIF so a bit longer than that
[img] 
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Krampus was a laugh.
A right laugh. 🙂
Planning on building onto some RH rims when I need new wheels on my SIR.9.
My Long Haul Trucker takes my 16 or 17 stone, up to 30 pounds of panniers and gear plus up to 7 litres of water and carries it for thousands of miles without a trace of shimmy or anything but rock solid predictable handling at any speed. It wipes the floor with my previous tourer a 531 framed Dawes Galaxy. I've no idea about Surly's other offerings but for a traditional loaded tourer they have got it right.
Part of the reason I cycle is to improve my fitness, so I see extra weight as resistance training.
Also I could loose a lot more pounds then any Surly frameset.
I've been thinking about replacing my Solaris with something more 'fun' so tried a Krampus at the weekend. It's not a light bike, around 30lbs, but didn't feel too bad on the climbs despite my weary legs after 4 hours biking before this. It was very comfy but still felt responsive. The only issues I could see would be making low gears work as there was tyre contact using the small chainring and larger rear gears. Not a cheap bike for a fully rigid either. Frame, fork and built wheels would be around £1200.
It was very different and fun though!
+1 for the Steamroller, one of my all time favourite bikes. Currently have a Troll which I'm super happy with.
I find that their website tells you the whats, hows and whys about their stuff in plain, no-nonsense language rather than the marketing guff and weasel words that you so often get. Plus they have a sense of humour which puts a smile on my face and that reminds me of the reason why I ride a bike in the first place.
The USA equivalent of the steel On-Ones
No disrespect to OO/PX, as they do what they do very well, but my take is that Surly's steel is a notch up in terms of tubing quality.
FWIW If I'd been a few quid shorter at the time, I'd have chosen the Kaffenback and not the LHT.
I commute on a Cross-Check & it does the job nicely, despite being roundly abused on various highways and byways. It's something of a tank compared to a proper CXer, but it's entirely fit for [my] purpose.
Being from the States I saw Surly evolve from it's early Years. Like it's beeen mentioned already. Surly is great for taking nitch bikes and mass producing them. They did it with Single Speed, Somewhat with 29ers, and now with Fatbikes.The marketing has been spot on.I own a Cross Check and Pugsly. I have owned a K Monokey. They've all been solid and reliable.Lets be honest, there's also "street cred " factor to owning a Surly. Here in the US fatbikes are exploding. Surly started all of that
I find that their website tells you the whats, hows and whys about their stuff in plain, no-nonsense language rather than the marketing guff and weasel words that you so often get. Plus they have a sense of humour which puts a smile on my face and that reminds me of the reason why I ride a bike in the first place.
Ironing.
Er....no.
Anyone own one of the 2014 Ogre complete bikes? Interested to hear some owner's opinions...
There was a thread on a high brow American site basically lots of folks who bought one think they are trash and buy something else once the trendy name has fallen by the wayside, a bit like the US version of NICHE On-One they were likened to.
[b]I like:[/b]
Decent steel frames, well thought out and some excellent touches.
Someone really cares about the finished product and how it's likely to be used.
Very innovative.
Tough simple paintjobs.
[b]
I don't like:[/b]
The image:
They appeal to a certain type of person who defines themselves by what they buy, rather than what they do and who judges others based on the same criteria.
I think this is a minority of their customers, but in the UK a significant one nontheless.
They are owned by a huge company, bikes are mass produced in Taiwan, yet charge ridiculous prices for very poorly specced full builds.
shermer75 - MemberI find that their website tells you the whats, hows and whys about their stuff in plain, no-nonsense language rather than the marketing guff and weasel words that you so often get. Plus they have a sense of humour which puts a smile on my face and that reminds me of the reason why I ride a bike in the first place.
See that 'sense of humour'?
That's the marketing guff, in disguise.
I met a bunch of the Surly guys at SSWC04 in Berlin.
Great bunch, and that sense of humour? Probably representative of their staff to be honest.
I bought a Karate Monkey this year and have had a pair of their Instigator forks for years on my singlespeed. I have also used their cogs, singlespeed tensioners etc.
They make good solid slightly different to the norm but refreshingly bullshit free kit for people who like to ride bikes. If you're into the latest carbon, shock technology, etc etc wonder bikes they are probably not for you.
Are they good VFM? Most of their framesets are £400-£500 which includes a fork, doesn't seem too bad to me. Lots of nice useful features on their frames too which adds cost, so they aren't cookie cutter Ally frames by any stretch of the imagination.
Their complete builds are probably a bit overpriced but I always buy frames and spec them to my taste.
The image:
They appeal to a certain type of person who defines themselves by what they buy, rather than what they do and who judges others based on the same criteria.
I think this is a minority of their customers, but in the UK a significant one nontheless.
I don't think there are many comments on here that sum up the Uk's mtb market better than this.
I'd say the vast majority of bikes are bought by people who feel they associate themselves with that brand. I fit that XXX stereotype so i'll buy a XXX.
[quote=Singlespeed_Shep ]I'd say the vast majority of bikes are bought by people who feel they associate themselves with that brand. I fit that XXX stereotype so i'll buy a XXX.
Not at all. The vast majority of bikes are bought by folk that go into Halfords/Decathlon/generic store and like the colour.
[quote=Rusty Spanner ]
shermer75 - Member
I find that their website tells you the whats, hows and whys about their stuff in plain, no-nonsense language rather than the marketing guff and weasel words that you so often get. Plus they have a sense of humour which puts a smile on my face and that reminds me of the reason why I ride a bike in the first place.
See that 'sense of humour'?
That's the marketing guff, in disguise.
Surely everyone knows that?
Not at all. The vast majority of bikes are bought by folk that go into Halfords/Decathlon/generic store and like the colour.
Yes fair point, i should have said higher end, premium bikes.
BillOddie - MemberThey make good solid slightly different to the norm but refreshingly bullshit free kit for people who like to ride bikes.
I agree.
They're the kind of simple, fun bikes everyone should be able to enjoy.
So why not price them realistically and market them accordingly?
If you're into the latest carbon, shock technology, etc etc wonder bikes they are probably not for you.
Why not?
Why the devisiveness?
They are owned by a huge company, bikes are mass produced in Taiwan, yet charge ridiculous prices for very poorly specced full builds.
I went from a Pompino to a Crosscheck frame/fork. Direct parts swap-over. CC was much more comfy, especially the fork. It also had more mud clearance front and back. So yeah, they may be more expensive but people buy more expensive but still mass-produced alu/carbon bikes because of better features. Same applies to steel.
I should qualify, i now have a CC, LHT and Instigator (not the new one tho) so I may be a fan-boy. FYI, the instigator is also better than the On-one that it replaced.
Not ridden either, sadly, though both on the current short list. 🙂
If you look at the full price builds of the Kaff and the Straggler the difference is ridiculous.
The Surly is almost twice the price.
Design differences and ride preferences aside, I couldn't live with that.
^ route to market makes most of that difference there. Surly is a US-owned brand, so is sold in the UK by a distributor, then into a retailer - there's a margin (often a slim one these days..) at every stage and that adds to the RRP. It can also have other advantages, or not, depends on the buyer.
I know where Surly and Salsa come from and it's a good factory, not the cheapest but they can do good stuff there. As usual tho you only get what you ask for and I see a decent amount of custom tube bends, dropouts etc in Surly stuff, they have the volumes to do it but that's because they're a big US brand - so we're back to the distribution thing again.
I've owned many Surlys. My Karate Monkey is my favourite bike, Pugsley up there with it alonside my 1X1 with 2.5 tyres commuter. Thet just produce bikes I want to ride. Not light, but they'll probably outlast me.
The Jones is long gone, basically it wasn't £2000 more fun than the Karate Monkey. The factory are a joy to deal with. Who else would advise how to fit really weirdly sized tyes on one of their frames.
jameso - Member^ route to market makes most of that difference there.
Ta for the reply.
But nearly 100% difference?
Really?
I'd like to see a breakdown of the figures.
I wonder what percentage of the increase is 'niche tax'?
I just ordered a Troll frame to build up for trail, commuting and touring, I like the do it all ability of the bikes, the one I tested felt solid but not as heavy as it actually weighed.
[quote=Rusty Spanner ]
I wonder what percentage of the increase is [s]'niche tax'[/s] for customer support?
FTFY
simonk - Member
I just ordered a Troll frame to build up for trail, commuting and touring, I like the do it all ability of the bikes, the one I tested felt solid but not as heavy as it actually weighed.
Awesome frame. Orange?
Ta for the reply.But nearly 100% difference?
Really?I'd like to see a breakdown of the figures.
I wonder what percentage of the increase is 'niche tax'?
RRP on Surly 1x1 F+F is £399 (also includes seatclamp)
RRP on On One Inbred 26" is £269.98
So roughly a £130 difference on a branded frame with a slightly better steel tubing.
On one frame travels:
Factory (far east) - On One Warehouse (uk) - Customer
Surly Frame Travels:
Factory (far east) - Surly??? (USA) - Surly distributor (Ison-UK) - Retailer (UK LBS) - Customer.
So for the extra £130 there is a more travelling/hand to go through and more people to take a cut. (This is all taking aside which is the better frame as for most this will be personal preference)
This does show the advantages of the direct to market brands like OO/Planet X or Canyon and why they are taking a market share from brands you could buy from your lbs.
Also if you get your surly from a trusted LBS (How i got mine)you get the benefits of back up if anything goes wrong locally and the frame being checked, chased and faced. (again another variable as OO do have a shop that will be local to some people)
shermer75 - Member
simonk - Member
I just ordered a Troll frame to build up for trail, commuting and touring, I like the do it all ability of the bikes, the one I tested felt solid but not as heavy as it actually weighed.
Awesome frame. Orange?
I went with purple, I fancied something different, I am really looking forward to it, sadly I won't have it in time for my France tour in April.
Singlespeed_Shep - MemberSo roughly a £130 difference on a branded frame with a slightly better steel tubing.
How is the cro moly tubing used by Surly different to the cro moly tubing used by On One?
And yes, I agree that the frames are better value than the full builds.
Can't fault my lht. Yes a little heavy but its cheap and good paint and lots and lots of thought on the fittings and braze on
I have it as a hack/winter bike it gets beaten about and very little care
Can't fault it.
As for the image I could not care less ,
I'd have another if it goes walk about in an instant
How is the cro moly tubing used by Surly different to the cro moly tubing used by On One?
The first On one frame I looked at didn't state it was double butted, (like the Surly) But looking at others the do, and I can't see On one using different steel tubes on dif 26" inbreds. So in that case the tubes themselves have no difference and you'll have to decide which is better. personally I think the 3d dropouts of the surly and the Paint are superior.
I've had both a Pompino & a Cross Check in the past - currently own an Inbred 29er & a Troll too. I'd say Surly have the edge in terms of "neatness" of welds & paint finish, but geometry plays a big part in how good the frames are - Nowt wrong with Surly but I prefer the mtb geometry of an Inbred, & I personally preferred the geometry & design of the Cross Check over the Pompino. None of them are bad or much better / worse than the other - just subtly different. Surly probably have the edge in terms of versatility.
Just had a look at the website, the purple looks amazing. Enjoy!
Bubbles the karate monkey is awesome and worth every penny.
to answer the thread title, yup
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Dirty rider - Wow pant spoilingly cute! Big tyres make downhills smooth but uphills suck worse than paying tax. Surly do things different; deal with it, http://surlybikes.com/bikes/disc_trucker.
