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Have to admit I'm kind of at a loss as to how it weighs so much
Largely because most people's claimed weights are bs so when an accurate weight is quoted...
My Swift @ 28.5lbs real weight with decent non-silly heavy kit on.
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I am astounded by the content of this post - suffice to say fools seldom differ.
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clubber wrote,
"Largely because most people's claimed weights are bs so when an accurate weight is quoted..."
I'm comparing it with my own verified weight of my Soul when it's in rigid form though, not with random claimed weights which as you say are pretty much always lies. 30lbs for a rigid mtb is pretty heavy even with a scaffold pipe frame, that's more than my Hemlock 😕
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I have no idea what it weighs, but I like the Alfine hub. Still have the 11spd on back order.........any day soon Mr Shimano?
Wasn't specifically pointing the finger at you Northwind 😉
ChrisS - MemberAnother myth/rumour to attempt to dispel is the one about all the mass being concentrated at the end of the bike affects handling etc...
Except IMHO it does. I have an alfine equipped cannondale badboy that I commute on every day and the concentration of weight at the rear hub is definitely noticeable when bunny hopping up kerbs or over speed bumps.
Don't get me wrong it's still a fab choice for commuting though, especially in this sort of weather.
Exactly my experience with a Rohloff'd hardtail. The Rohloff is heavier than an Alfine, and it didn't feel quite as lively or eager to get air as a 'standard' geared hardtail. So I switched back to external gears.
[img][URL= http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/8089/2884155860036898833S600x600Q85.jp g" target="_blank">
here is my alfine bike it also has a qr wheel setup
[img][URL= http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/6098/2092259890036898833S600x600Q85.jp g" target="_blank">
picture of alfine qr wheel setup
Quite funny how this whole Alfine issue has evolved on here. It would seem that the net result is; that they are quite good really.
Had mine for a couple of years now and it hasn't exploded yet.
Like Mr Del I switched from a light (explosif) build to a meatier P7 build and we both find it a very stable ride.
WTF is going on with that chain?
So... the end result of this, predictably, is that on paper there's not much difference, but you can still feel it when you ride the bike? Here's a thought, swapping an Air Pike for a Dual Air Revelation on my RC405 which lost, I don't know, maybe 0.75lb and increased the crown-axle measurement by maybe 10mm made a huge difference to the way the bike felt in certain situations - it climbed like a drunken donkey, steered lazily and basically felt like a different bike, to the point where I put another Pike on up front. Bikes are quite delicately balanced things and I have no trouble at all believing that sticking most of the weight of the drive mechanism in the middle of the rear hub makes a significant difference to ride feel, because it doesn't take much.
I've ridden three Rohloff/Alfine-equipped bikes and in all three cases, you absolutely knew, from the way the bike handled, that it had a big chunk of weight in the rear hub. And surely what matters is the way the bike feels to the rider and how it rides?
Great post!
Regarding the weight balance, I think a better way to measure it would be to put the bike on two sets of scales, one under each wheel, and look at the ratio between the two weights.
[img][URL= http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/43691/2363030480036898833S600x600Q85.jp g" target="_blank">
this is how I tension the chain ,, it runs as either a singlespeed or alfine i have run this setup on a Marin mount vision SS since 1999
and never had any problems
I love my Alfine. I think with more shimano development it could really turn into a viable gear system for all mtbs. I certainly hope so. Thankyou for the write up stu.
Brilliant initial post, really well done. I particularly liked the CG location.
In terms of how it feels I think we could also consider moments of inertia. We are moving alot of mass away from the centre of gravity. This will make it harder to get the bike to rotate in the air.
I'm sure this would irrelevant to me and most. But maybe its what some people can feel when they talk about the change in balance
not only has this thread been polluted with so called "facts", theres also some seriously ugly bikes on here too.
Was actually quite a useful post, cheers for that. I can believe the weights too. Sticking a suspension fork like a reba on that bike would only add 600grams so the bike would weigh 31 lb which is about right for a geared steel hardtail 29er slx etc
How refreshing to have an interesting post about bikes!
Good job OP, nice looking steed. Not for me though, I'm going fixed. And probably beardy.
Excellent post. I've been Alfine-curious for a while. The link below is a review on the roadcc site. I read this post with interest and especially that the 11 speed is 90g lighter than the 8 speed. Hoorah I thought until I read...
[url= http://road.cc/content/review/27971-shimano-alfine-11-hub-and-shifter ]linky[/url]
The claimed weight of the 11 speed is 90g less than the 8 speed though in this review it is 68g heavier than the 8 speed. Is that a poke in the eye for folks waiting for the 11 speed version?
And yes I am an anal retentive weight weenie which is why when I ride with gears it's using a 1x9 setup.
Nice post, I've also been considering an Alfine as I bloody hate "normal" gears. How do they hold up to xc, downhill and jumping abuse though seeing as they were designed for commuters?
I think they were designed for off road (you may be thinking of Nexus) and reports have been positive.
i hthat have been told a company who runs a hire fleet of alfine mountain bikes have never had a faliure
Nice read Stu. I sort of like my Alfine but I've got a singlespeed wheel in it's place most of the time.
One of the best threads ever on STW.
I thought about doing something similar when I first went to Rohloff. The difference is, you did it. 8)
i hthat have been told a company who runs a hire fleet of alfine mountain bikes have never had a faliure
Mine has got incurable bearing play in it after a years riding in the peak.
If it's incurable and you're tossing it out, I'll have it 🙂
I'm pretty sure it's curable, just the average lbs has no idea where to start on hub gears.
But rather than take advantage of you - [u][b][url= http://www.hubstripping.com/shimano-alfine/shimano-service-anleitung-nexus-inter-8-roller-brake-SG-8R20-SG-8R25-alfine-ge%20Kopie.pdf ]Hubstripping site[/url][/b][/u] shows how it's done. A couple of special tools needed.
WTF does that frame weigh?
My dirtjump bike with old saint, 721s, 2.35 minions 2x8/bash and Pikes is less than a lb heavier than your rigid XC bike? 😯
If it's incurable and you're tossing it out, I'll have it
Heh, nice try! It's still in use, just on the commuter bike now.
Nice one Stu... Good facts to put paid to all the silly myths about Alfines!
Absolutely staggered your build weighs almost 30lb though... Must mean that mine, with Reba's and beefier tyres is probably more like 31-32lb!!! Hmmm... Still rides like it's a lot lighter though...
When we doing an Alfined 29er ride then mate?
There seems to be a break in the posts so I’ll attempt to respond.
First of all I did this out of my own curiosity, I expected the usual piss taking but was surprised by the compliments so thanks for that.
A few of you have commented on the weight of the bike. It’s a large frame and it’s cheap and that’s the actual weight not some manufacturer or media bullshit. I did weigh the finished article on a second set of scales at 20 odd grams lighter but 19g of that is excess cable that I removed so they’re pretty close.
However this is a before and after comparison experiment so the weight of the bike is irrelevant, if it had weighed 19.63lbs before it’d now weigh 19.64lbs.
Also, there have been some references to Rohloff, obviously this little experiment only relates to Alfine. I have no experience of Rohloff so shouldn’t comment but from the opinions of others it would seem heavier and suffer more with drag. Personally speaking the cost of Rohloff makes it a non-starter.
As for the weight shift, which I must stress is the balance point of the bike not the centre of gravity, I’ve added some amendments at the end of this post. I’m sure better riders than me will feel the difference, so far I haven’t noticed it that much but riding conditions are all over the place at the moment. Also the heaviest component on my bike is me, at 97kg and I’m moving all over the place so counter balancing a 33mm* shift isn’t proving too difficult
* see amendment
woody2000 - Aaah, bless you Stu McGroo. I'd love to have that much free time
I know, great isn’t it, you can have everything in the world but without time you have nothing!
cynic-al - You've cheated in saving weight by using 185mm spokes, they should be 260-something?
Sorry al, typo error, but edited in time so no one knows what you’re on about
alexpalacefan - Nice post Stu, you should be writing this sort of stuff for publication, not free on a forum.
No can do, I’d get the sack for using facts and refusing to tow the corporate (bullshit) line and capitulating to the demands of advertisers!
pypdjl - I'm unconvinced by those weights! You'll also need to carry a 15mm spanner, so that's another 200 grams or so...
Unconvinced based on what? What did your experiment turn up then? Feel free to be unconvinced but please back it up! As for the spanner, here it is with the open end ground off.
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Fits nicely in my tool kit along with full set of allen keys, Gerber suspension multi-tool, chain splitter, spare links, puncture repair kit, spare tube, zip ties, velcro straps, rag, tyre levers and pump. Then there’s a bag of jelly babies, 3 or 4 mars bars and 2 litres of water in the camel back, all of which is carried by me at 6’4” and 97kg. The spanner weighs 63g so I don’t think it’ll make much difference!
BenjiM - I may have missed something but You're comparing weights with triple rings up front to a single ring up front, regardless of ratios this would still contribute a considerable weight difference no?
Not considerable but it all adds up, took 3 rings off (24/32/42) and added a 32 single speed ring that is a bit thicker.
rOcKeTdOg - I thought you'd given up riding stu, how much for the 10 speed stuff?
Why? you’ll be getting an Alfine 😉
chalkstorm - Lovin the post McGroo...... but really, gears? HTF did you pursuade xckeith to get involved....?
He has no morals, it’s all a sham 😯
Space Cowboy - Wouldn't it look better in purple?
No, it’d look gay, obviously 😉
s-keeper -I'd be a bit worried using 5mm chainring spacers to get the correct chainline.
I’m not, been ok so far, but I’ll keep you posted.
Northwind - Oh, and sorry but
"Fitted 32T chainring and 20T rear sprocket, this gives me the same range as a middle ring x 1-9 + granny ring x 2 on my previous SLX set-up."
I have no idea what this means Probably just me being dense but could you clarify it a bit?
Ok I’ll have another go, 32:20 on my Alfine gives me the same range as 32:13 down to 24:30 (10 gears in all) on my SLX. 32:18 with be equivalent to 32:11 down to 32:34. That’s the best I can do, if you still don’t get it then yes, you’re probably right.
ade ward
you need help 😯
BadlyWiredDog - So... the end result of this, predictably, is that on paper there's not much difference
From what I’ve been reading over the last 12 months on STW I thought the result was anything but predictable! And from the responses I’ve seen here I think there’s a fair few who are surprised.
Sorry if I've missed anyone out.
Now the extra weight shift stuff. My measurement of rearward weight shift along the top tube didn’t take account of the top tube being 17.7 degrees to the horizontal. If you're sad you do this
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and then you can see that the actual rearward weight shift in the horizontal plane is only 31.4mm.
Furthermore, with the SLX set-up my rear wheel was on the stops at the front of the dropout. If I’d adjusted it to the center of the dropout (like it is now) then the difference in the before and after weight shift measurements would be less still.
P'haps if you spent half as much time riding you'd be really fit & quick,then wouldn't have to worry about silly little weight shifts 'n stuff 8)
I agree about Keef though,morals of an alley cat that "keef" ...... 😈
oh JJ you're soooo sweet !
The claimed weight of the 11 speed is 90g less than the 8 speed though in this review it is 68g heavier than the 8 speed. Is that a poke in the eye for folks waiting for the 11 speed version?
Nope
What a depressing thread. I was going to build an alfine bike but because of the delays with the 11 speed I have gone 1X10 instead. All those photos of lovely simple looking bikes and positive comments have made me question whether I have done the right thing. As stated, very depressing.
lol@JJ and xckeith1 - what a pair of keefs....
I wonder how many people with Alfines run carbon folks compared to say, Toras. That's basically a 3lb difference right there at the front of the bike. If you were hugely worried about the rearward balance, just fit a meaty fork...
As well as the Rev U-turn (4lb) on the bike I actually have a brand new Lyrik coil u-turn (5.5lb) I brought over from the states, was going to sell it on cause just cutting the steerer would massively reduce the re-sale value. BUT THANKS TO THIS THREAD (groan), even though my riding doesn't warrant a Lyrik, I might just feel the need to compare....
Bloody good read that.
All that techy stuff has made feel a little fick though!
Unconvinced based on what?
I'm not convinced you have scales that are accurate to 0.01 lbs.
I have access to E2 (or is it E1, I forget) pharmaceutical dispensing scales and I weighed my alfine bike and got 14.485Kg (or an ounce under 32lb). The scales are set up so there are no corner loading errors and big enough I could just lay the bike down. You would be hard pushed to get a more accurate reading...
Which is why I'm stunned the bike in the OP weighs in at 29.5lb when it looks quite a mincer compared to mine.
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?t=1292793160[/img] scaffolding pole 456EBB (which is chromed and then powdercoated on top for extra lightness), the only light thing are the Forks I guess.
Great post Stu. I've been thinking if going 1-9 having gone from an Alfine to single speed. Havng read this I might just dig the Alfine out of the loft and give it another go.
Alfine was designed for a shopping bike not to win World Cup MTB races and costs accordingly.
Er, I won a race once with my Alfine. It was the 2008 Guernsey Autumn XC (Veterans class). The only race I've ever done with a figure of eight course. All very gentlemanly at the crossover.
Also 7th Male Pair in the 2008 Dusk til Dawn on the Alfine.
My best result ever in a NPS was on my alfine bike...
Any other ways of running one on a full sus without an ade ward style tensioning monstrosity? Would a regular SS tensioner do or would it need more movement?
Bike I have in mind is the previous gen. Heckler.
Would welcome the weight shift, riding weight all the way back, but still nose landing everything big time.
Any spring loaded tensioner should do. When built it'd probably be worth unbolting or depressurising the shock to check the tensioner through the full range of suss travel.
still nose landing everything big time
Try upping the rebound damping at the rear.
i tried a std single wheel tensioner on my marin and whyte but it wouldnt pull enough chain so i went for the other option i had an old sunn dh chain device,, it has been on my fs ss bikes for over 10 years now first used at cheddar 99 i think so may not look nice but it does the job
[url= http://labs.yesspro.com/products/etr-d ]YESS ETR-D tensioner[/url]