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Thinking of 4130 v 853 v columbus tubing. Got a cross check with full carbon fork but have been drooling over the ritte [url= http://rittecycles.com/custom/the-blue-ribbon-steel-cx/ ]blue ribbon[/url]. If we ignore the discs and that geometry arguably plays the most important role in design, will there actually be much difference in frame weights?
yes, no, maybe.
Impossible to give an exact answer. Two solid volumes of steel will have the mass. But the differing strengths mean you can achieve different pipes, different butting, different profiling etc etc. Then is the pipe to be strong or to be light or a mix.
Eh? ! It's possible to give a very accurate answer, pity the question's worded so badly
steel is steel. It all has pretty much the same density.
Stronger tubing means less material can be used to achieve the same strength, but isn't always.
You can build a 1100g frame from 953, or the new Genesis prototype is 1700g (and presubably very stiff). Off the top of my head I think my 525 equivelent columbus frame is 1975g and I've seen similar 853 frames arround 1600g.
Eh? ! It's possible to give a very accurate answer, pity the question's worded so badly
56cm cross frame in 4130 weight versus weight of a columbus tubed one
Simple answer, yes - depends on the steel, but if 4130 is 1mm thick and 853 or Zona is 0.5mm, that's half the weight.
Of course that's busted sections, and it depends on joints and braze-ons as well.
I guess what I'm really asking is if it would be an appreciable weight difference. the real problem is that you could in theory use the same tubing eg 4130 and build 2 bikes that weigh the same but ride very differently depending on how you build it - not only geometry but the tubing diameters etc
56cm cross frame in 4130 weight versus weight of a columbus tubed one
4130 is simply a grade of steel, it tells you nothing about the tube profiles, diameters, wall thicknesses, butt lengths etc. Equally, there are many different grades of Columbus steel, with the same variables even within a tubeset.
So on one hand yes - a Columbus tubes frame could be significantly lighter, on the other, it could be a lot heavier.
All that said, I'd be very surprised if the Ritte wasn't a good bit lighter than a Crosscheck - but it very much depends on their tubing choices. I assume these are custom? In which case they should work with you to choose the most appropriate tubing for your needs and wants.
They're releasing a standard sizing option to reduce price, they don't detail what columbus tubing they use but similarly I figured it would be a chunk lighter than the cross check. It just got me thinking. I also started to wonder why 953 hasn't been more widely used as initially builders seemed to be singing it's praises?
If this helps re Columbus tubing.
[url= http://www.columbustubi.com/eng/4_4_1.htm ]Columbus[/url]
953 hasn't been more widely used as initially builders seemed to be singing it's praises?
money, it is VERY expensive.
no info re. weight on the OP's link. Cross checks are not light I am told.
2.2kg for frame according to surly, the fork was a kilo on its own!
Cheers Mrmo, yeah but i thought they were talking about it replacing ti as the 'lifetime' material at one stage?
953 is both expensive and very hard to work with. There are some other stainless options on the horizon though....
iirc (at one stage) to work with 953 required Reynolds certification.
I had a dedacciai 16.5 EOM tubed road frame which weighed 1700g.
I find the Madison Genesis 953 frame curious. Why build a race bike out of steel purportedly weighing 1700g when people like Cannondale are building carbon down to a little over 600g. OK, that's not going to make much of a difference to the general riding public but at the highest levels?
Because weight isn't everything?
OK, that's not going to make much of a difference to the general riding public but at the highest levels?
Because theres a (lower) weight limit of 6.8kg / 15lb. Even Liquigas aren't using the top of the range Evo Black frameset. Even with the 'normal' 680g Evo frameset you'd be under the weight limit with a DA groupset and some fairly normal wheels and finishing kit.
Most pro teams use the top frame, but then spec some suprisingly cheep/heavy parts in areas like cassette, cranks etc, and rarely use carbon finishing kit. And as bikes have gotten reliably underweight things like aero frames/wheels have become popular and power meters.
A few years ago they were adding lead weights in the seatube, or beefing up frames to add weight/siffness but the UCI ruled all weight had to be usefull and the frames had to be approved (i.e. production models).
OK, that's not going to make much of a difference to the general riding public but at the highest levels?
and at the highest levels bikes are having heavier components added to get the weight back to the UCI rules.