[Closed] Starting to lose my nerve on the road

Have a guess why I am re-qualifying and have pretty much stopped cycle training? Or ask my wife why she's going back to her art.
Or ask several long-term trainers who left the industry.
Good luck, mud awaits me.

I don't really think there's anything that can happen until a major shift in the attitude of police and car users occurs.

I would personally be sending a cycle plod out on a busy road incognito with a helmet cam and a radio, and pull in every car that drives dangerously (passing too close, abuse, cutting up etc). Six points and a hefty fine.

I avoid riding on the road now if at all possible.

I have to say that incidents with me are very rare and my (newish) commute is right into Manchester on busy and very cycle-unfriendly roads.

However today I was waiting at the lights (yes, I wait at red lights!) in my ASL box and as I pulled away the driver behind hooted a long blast at me and roared past - presumably because I was in the middle of the lane but moving over to the left, I'd obviously delayed him by 1/2 a second. Instinctively I shouted "F*** off!" at him, not sure if he heard.
Unsurprisingly I'd caught him up in the traffic within half a mile and for the net few miles we seemed to alternate positions as one would catch the other. I thought for a while he might be following me as he seemed to hang back but then I lost him in heavy traffic and turned off earlier than normal via a back route home just to make sure.

No point to it at all, our average speeds were identical but clearly he was too thick to see it that way. 🙁

Hi dont be to hard on your self,these days riding on the road makes you very nervous,everyday you ride to work someone is doing crazy things.What most people do now is expect the worsed and are ready for it,which i expect you do.I cycle the roads around the cotswolds,cheltenham,Gloucester,Stroud etc.The last year its got alot worse.alot of drivers just dont give a toss about cyclist as you know.Great when you get out on country roads just getting through the town first.A mate tryed MTbiking for the first time a few months back and the first thing he said about it was how relaxing it was compaired with riding the road and he has been a roadie for 35 years says it all.

Ton is the expert on cycle etiquette today 😉

Joking apart, there does seem to a growing negative opinion towards cyclist on the road, fueled by lenient sentences for drivers who hurt cyclist and the generalization that all cyclist are tax dogging RLJ hot heads.

Maybe Flaperon idea of under cover cyclist on bikes might not be a bad idea, but I fear not too many serving Police officers would be keen to do it.

Pjay I had the same feelings as you, about this time last year, came close to giving up all my road riding after a week of rather close encounters with ignorant drivers.

I decided to alter my routes a bit, take in more off road tracks and use quieter roads for a while, just to give myself a break, it worked for me.

I get nervous sometimes, however you have a right to be on the road and it's your choice how you choose to travel. I'd suggest getting a copy of John Franklins book which I think is called Roadcraft as it has a lot of good advice about placing on the road and techniques of road riding. All of us go through it, sometimes having a little cry at the side of the road. Stick with it, make sure that you're spacially aware of what's around you and say "thank you" as you could pronounce it with a silent N, but doesn't cause red mist driving.

aP, after 10 years of teaching people how to do it I've almost given up. When I can carry a machine gun I'll train full-time again. Until then, nope. Books are great, life is better.

Hairy - I live 3 miles from you. I cylcle pretty much every day, sometimes I arrive at work livid, however I arrive. Just keep bloody cycling, you know it's right.

dunno, but my current commute is only 3.2 miles, and I average narrowly avoiding two brainless twunts each way.

The pick of today,

sat at trafic lights, cant go foreward even though the lights are green as the roundabout is gridlocked, car behind me beeping almost got a Ton style thankyou for his persistance.

Leaner driver overtakes on the aproach to a roundabout and tries to take me left with it! The instructor got a well deserved 20mph "what the f****" through his open window.

By wearing headphones, the sound of honking morons can easily be replaced by nosebleed techno 🙂 Seriously though, don't be bullied off the road.

I truly believe that nearly all flames directed at cyclists are fanned by those that run red lights

every time I have a 'discussion' with another road user they bring this up as a reason (excuse) for their vitriol

Sadly, I've given up riding recreationally on the ride. I used to do up tp 150 miles a week when training, now the only time I'm on the road is when linking off-road trails in the sticks. Several reasons, but fundamentally the risks outweighed the rewards. I simply can't trust drivers not to try to kill me - and it only takes one to do the job. It's somewhat illogical - I've never had a really bad experience on the road, though a couple of close shaves, but I do know of several bike riders who are either dead or disabled.

I work from home, don't have to ride on tarmac daily. Let's put it this way - if I were working withing a cycling distance I'd cycle there. But as things stand I much prefer having mud in my hair to being hooted at by a driver who knows best.
I used to work in Hammersmith and live in Hanwell. I cycled daily along the A4 at 5.15 a.m. to work and back along the towpath in the afternoon as the drivers were plain stupid. What has changed since is my becoming a dad. My daughter needs to have her daddy around for many years to come, alive and kicking.
I have no issues cycling in Central London, West End and the likes, it's the suburbs that try to kill me and I won't have it. We have 3 large school on our road and local morons still go over 60mph there. At least down Oxford Street they need to drive more slowly.
Maybe I'm just grumpy these days but I can't see a point in riding on roads unless necessary. It isn't for me right now, long may it continue, so I'm on my 2.4" Advantages. Much safer, more enjoyable, cleaner air, no need to listen to DJ Whatever-His-Name blasting from a souped-up £150 Corsa with a bucket for the exhaust.
Or is it the sign I need to move away?

the rlj issues annoy me
i mean as a pedestrian do the anti cyclists only cross at traffic lights or when the green man is showing? do they ****
i think its all about envy- they see us cyclists whizzing past them as they sit listening to the sound of their arteries hardening in their traffic jams
i cycle from chiwick to kensington daily and i overtake every car i see in the rush hour it makes their blood boil
and they remember that some twunt jumped a light the other day and they hate us for it

Was in Germany recently & France for a day, every town centre had racks and racks of bikes parked up.

Interestingly a helluvalot of the towns and villages seem to have have separate cycle only lanes 6ft wide and running adjacent 6ft from the roads.

Whilst the pretty cycle route signs are all well and good there is no way that things are going to change while the councils think painting the gutters green is enough.

In Britain a serious eduction scheme needs to be brought into effect about cyclists. If you ride a bike you're scum. It's an applling attitude but I see it every single day I ride a bike on the road.

Cycling helps EVERYONE. It helps the people who ride, it helps the people who drive and have one less car holding them up, it helps the environment and the heath service, and the companies who employ cyclists, EVERYONE.

So it should be treated as such and the only way we're going to get treated differently is education. Drivers need to have the advantages of cyclists on the roads forced onto them as part of the driving test, cyclists need to be mandatorily taught in schools on how to ride a bike (number one point being 'traffic lights are for everyone'),second point being 'signalling saves lives'. And the advantages of having people cycling rather than driving needs to be drummed into people constantly, from school through to work.

Until this sort of process starts, we're going to have people like the OP who is a proper enthusiast but is so worried about riding on the road that he's thinking about not doing it any more. That's a tragic case and needs to be addressed.

But Brits are by and large, ****ing bellends. So there's no chance. Britain is ace, 90% of the cocks that live in it are hate and alcohol fueled morons, so there's no chance.

Yes cyclists should stop fully & properly at red lights, only we usually can't do it safely because the advanced stop boxes and cycle lanes to the side of the roads are actually full of cars/lorries/buses in Sheffield.

Car drivers are trying to kill us, albeit mostly from carelessness and ignorance, so anything that makes you visible and raises their awareness of you is a good thing.

Alternatively you can sit in the queue and wait to be sideswiped or go over the bonnet as some moron pulls out in front of you, travelling at the same speed as the cars. Might as well drive.

Current main menace is the new freshers spending too long looking at maps and just wandering into roads with phones in. At least the traffics slowing again now schools are back.

It does seem worst out there now. I used to commute from Hemel to North London every day without incident for years, but now!
And strangely my town now seems worst since they've put traffic calming measures in.
20MPH limit, ignored.
Speed bumps, ignored.
Cycle lanes, ignored.
Box junctions, ignored.
Advance stop boxes, ignored.
I think motorists believe we have deliberately had these installed to slow them down.
That said I still don't have any problems myself, as I said polite aggression ride like you have the right but don't break the rules. Also lots of spitting and nose clearing does the job, they might not mind a dead cyclist on their bonnet but a bit of snot will freak them out.

Motorists are aggrieved because even now adverts still show "the open road" with slogans like
The drive of your life
The ultimate driving machine
But in traffic it doesn't matter if you're in a Porsche or a Panda, you're still going nowhere. The council/government have spent YOUR "road tax" on speed bumps, cameras, more lights, more signs without there being any tangible benefit. You've just had to fill up with fuel which is £50, most of it tax. So the motorist feels angry and persecuted.

And then someone on a bike, one of those cheap things that costs 1/10th the value of their car, comes charging past, pauses just long enough to make sure it's safe to jump the lights and is gone.

Now the logical conclusion is "Hmm, that looks like a cool way to beat the jams, I'll try that"
But with all the points above and the ingrained view that cyclists are scum means that the actual conclusion is "W*r!!!! I'll fing knock him off, tax dodging scumbag"

Geez I must have been on a long break from road riding-where when did this anger come from?

Road tax goes straight to the government.

Isn't it council tax that goes to pay for the roads?

I need to keep a clean record but I can see myself defending/punching out a driver if he tries anything physical on me.

Think I will buy life assurance so my family can buy nice stuff when I get by a bus and remember me when they drive their new car! 😈

Interestingly I'm finding the roads better than, say, 2 years ago. My commute into Manchester is along pretty grim roads quite a bit of the way and I have far fewer incidents than I used to. Maybe a combination of me being more assertive in my positioning etc, and there being more riders on the road, rather than drivers starting to get the message (obviously apart from the occasional c0ck)? but it's far more likely these days that I see someone on a bike being an idiot than someone in a car doing the same...

[i]Yes cyclists should stop fully & properly at red lights, only we usually can't do it safely because the advanced stop boxes and cycle lanes to the side of the roads are actually full of cars/lorries/buses in Sheffield.[/i]

poor argument. Yes, the ASLs and cycle lanes shouldn't be full of cars, but you should always be able to stop safely at red lights. You might just have to sit a bit back from the lights rather than right on the line...

I really don't get people who says France is safer than UK for road riding. I don't pretend to know both the whole countries, but south of england is way much safer than south of France for road riding.
When commuting in southampton I only had on average 2-3 close call incident a week.
In Cannes it's generally once a day.

Around here (Brighton) it does seem to me that there is more aggression toward cyclists on the road in the last couple of years, I seem to be getting less room and every ride and it seems a good fews cars almost take out my front wheel while pulling back in.

What confuses me is that we are lucky enough to have some pretty ok cycle paths here, which in some areas are separate to the main road. However some people still cycle up the main road running parallel! There are certain cycle paths that I will not ride on (glass, pot-holes, dangerous routing etc.) but I am taking about clean, well surfaced and routed paths. I think this also winds up motorists.

However I don't think it will ever change here, as mentioned above most people in this beautiful country are no angry, stressed w*nkers who will never like cyclists. The population density is too high and the road network too narrow to ever build a real network of cycle paths.

We are back off to italy asap where not RLJing on a bike is considered strange!

Seriously considering selling my lush italian road-bike too 🙁

[b]NB I am not attacking the current STW riders who have been in self-defence situations[/b], they must do what they think right.

BUT The riders who talk about 'teaching a driver a lesson' are adding to the problem, I believe. It escalates and the next cyclist down the road gets cut up 'for no reason' and the vicious circle rolls on until some poor sod gets killed.

I agree with AndyP that it's getting better. I ride in Exeter and surrounding areas and it is definitely better now than three years ago. Largely because of the higher numbers of riders. Drivers just have to get used to it. And cyclists should [url= http://www.stopatred.org/pledge.php ]stop at red.[/url]

I’ve been commuting for 2 years and only had a couple of near misses from vehicles, mainly due to cars weaving whilst avoiding speed bumps. I’ve never had anyone shout or scream at me.
I am able to use cycle paths which are frankly an expensive joke- dismounts, junctions etc every 100m but at least I can legally ride on the footpath for most of my journey, albeit a dangerous place itself due to oblivious pedestrians walking in cycle lanes, often 3 abreast with colleagues, students in their own little world etc etc.

I signal at junctions, stop at red lights and wait at pelican crossings but look after myself as priority. If that means riding where I shouldn’t so be it. I often go home the long way down country lanes which can be ratruns, but most drivers a pretty good. I’m feeling more confident in town always now overtake rather than undertake stationary lines of traffic. A hi vis vest or bright top does help IMO.

A cyclist was killed by my house a while back. Young girl driver had been racing on the carpark, then lost control going up the road, bounced between the curbs and careered into cyclist at 50 in a 30, riding on the pavement. She got about 3 years and a ban, he is dead. In the local press there has been outrage at her long sentence, she had a clean licence before this (she had only passed her test 6 months ffs. Writers in have tried to apportion some blame to the cyclist as he has no lights and was on the footpath. Its also started people writing in moaning about cycling on pavements running red lights.

I don’t think its a battle cyclists can win until personnel transport using cars stops due to oil running out or a massive investment in other means of transport by Government.

I'm spending a few days in Copenhagen later this month, in part to check out the cycling culture. Compulsory helmet laws have been rejected there as encouraging a 'culture of fear' - fewer Danes wear helmets than we do yet they have far lower injury rates. Perhaps it comes down to two things: infrastructure and driver mentality. London and other UK cities will never be bike-friendly thanks to the layout. We have too many people trying to share a poor road network with fellow Britons who have a 'me first, screw you' attitude. I've watched a London bus driver harass a cyclist off the road, only to pull in a few yards down the road. I don't believe that mentality will ever change.

In Cannes it's generally once a day.

That's because they're all tourists from Britain trying to get to La Croisette.... 😉

BUT The riders who talk about 'teaching a driver a lesson' are adding to the problem, I believe.

Broadly, I do agree, though the red mist descends pretty quickly. Happily, these days, it ascends just asquickly, and no sooner have I shouted "Oi" at a driver, then I'm over it and don't want any more aggro.

All I want to do is make sure that I'm safe, rather than exacting some sort of revenge which is, IMO, no different from a car driver cutting someone up because of a perceived slight. Very rarely do I completely lose it, and then it has to be with very good reason.

OMITN this season has now past and I still have trouble 😉
Yesterday someone cut me getting in the roundabout and when I shouted she just waved here head and hand saying I don't care.

No sure kick the living shit of any driver is good. Down here cops can't be bothered (now that is a surprise). Bike is regarded as either a middle class sport (high end) or a poor man mean of transportation (specially here as well).

I can't really see that chanching. For various reason. As for the red light, well lets face it I run them or not, it depends in which country I am.

In Cannes it's generally once a day.

What happens is that brits who live in cities/suburbia go on holiday to France and pootle around backroads in the middle of nowhere at off peak times and say 'oh isn't France great for cycling'.

Keep your 'personal' space just that. You must be very assertive whilst on the road, i use the road for the most part like a car,ie i take up the space i need to ensure i have plenty of space and that cars behind me will just have to wait until i see fit to move aside..if you get a beep or two...thats life, just ignore it, or make a piont and take even longer to get out the way.

Also hold your lines, deviation causes drivers to try and worm past you, if your line is solid it gives them a much clearer indication of where you are going....could go on but won't.

This is all in london and it works very well for me.

Another issue 'not proper cyclists like us' cyclists i.e no lights or lid, ride along the pavement, then the road, ride over zebra crossings, then pavement, road etc etc. And the highway code is something in fairy tales.
They even annoy me.

I think its just another symptom of the general decline in respect for others and the demise of our communities which is increasingly affecting all areas of life and society not just the roads - for example people throwing fast food cartons on the pavement when there is a bin 5 yards away, having overly loud convesations on their phones, or at the gym I go to people leaving wet towels lying around when there are two bins where they can put them, or using the hairdriers (hint in the name) to dry their feet and genitals FFS!

I agree with the poster above about the number of cyclists riding like idiots not helping with drivers' perception of cyclists in general.

It really annoys me when cyclists feel they have the right to use pavement [b]and/or[/b] road, whichever lets them ride fastest. The red light jumping thing is annoying too.

Do we still have decent cycling proficiency training in schools like when I were a lad?! 🙂

But Brits are by and large, ****ing bellends. So there's no chance. Britain is ace, 90% of the cocks that live in it are hate and alcohol fueled morons, so there's no chance.

here here!!

a country that cant have a bike share scheme in a city because within 72 hrs they are all smashed isnt a place i want to live.
shame we're stuck in it though!
(been in paris over the weekend)

you could be more assertive physically.

where you would hold a line in the road, at certain places, that would discourage overtaking for example ( hanging out towards the crown a bit on blind corners) you could get yourself into a position that STOPS it until YOU are ready to let them past, youll wind them up a bit more, but thats what middle fingers are made for.

dont give in!

I've ridden bikes on the road for about 20years. I've done less recently and when I do I find it very unpleasant due to the behaviour of drivers. The level of congestion is very high, which possibly adds to the problems.

I'm almost certain that Traffic Light jumping by drivers and cyclists is [b]much more common[/b] than it was 10 years ago.

Without wishing to sound like an old git, I think that Philby is onto something there.

There is an attitude of "I'm alright, Jack" in the UK. We are certainly not the stiff upper lip, mustn't grumble stereotype of old -We probably never were and it's probably a fairly universal attitude.

Unfortunately, the big stick approach is a civilising one. In 2009, there is no fear of any repercussions as a result of poor, selfish behaviour and people just do what they like. Police beating people up, fitting people up and authority figures dishing out corporal punishment are obviously not desirable though.

Cars provide a very safe environment for the driver and seem to give people a sense of bravado. A large number of drivers -often young women who are much more confident(overly so?) than they were in the past- can be seen/heard mouthing off to other drivers/pedestrians/cyclists. Take away the car and most of those people wouldn't be anywhere near as aggressive....

I reckon I'd now like to live somewhere quieter than a big UK conurbation.

I don't road ride for pleasure, just to commute and although I'm not as safe as in my car, I'm way less stressed.
Far more seperated from all those morons who don't know how to use lanes, indicators, their eyes, etc etc.
Most of the problems seem to stem from utter ignorance, not aggression.

Assertive riding, owning your space etc. is all well and good on urban roads, on country lanes how are you going to stop someone using the oncoming lane to overtake you on a blind corner and the then pulling in inches from your front wheel? If another car comes round the car you are all going to die.

This is the difference I have noticed, less patience and people literally not prepared to wait a few seconds to go round a bend before overtaking and risking not just my life but theirs.

Well, I stop at red lights and obey the rules as best I can. Being on a bicyle makes it feel even more important - if you get grief when riding legally and safely it's surely going to be a whole lot worse if you're being an idiot. I also believe that acting sensibly on a bike is about not letting the side down and increasing the dislike of other cyclists.

[i]Assertive riding, owning your space etc. is all well and good on urban roads, on country lanes how are you going to stop someone using the oncoming lane to overtake you on a blind corner and the then pulling in inches from your front wheel? If another car comes round the car you are all going to die.[/i]

you have to [i]think[/i]. Oh look, car overtaking me on blind corner. Perhaps they'll pull in inches from my front wheel. I'll scrub some speed and get ready to take evasive action.

[i]Most of the problems seem to stem from utter ignorance, not aggression[/i]
indeed, agreed to 100%. Most drivers don't actually want to knock you off or cut you up. Most of the problems from cyclists, meanwhile, are as a result of a decision they make. Not good.

Drivers may not want to knock people off or cut them up, but many don't give any thought at all to the facts that waiting a few seconds before passing or giving some space rather than just forcing past might be a good idea.

That is the problem. Lack of thought and consideration for others whilst cocooned inside (often) a small car or white van.

Some tosspot in a lorryyyyyyyypuled out on me this morning luckily I could just swerve around the back of him (it was that close I was doing 20odd mph) It's not like it was gloriously sunny or anything. People do not pay attention.

"you have to think. Oh look, car overtaking me on blind corner. Perhaps they'll pull in inches from my front wheel. I'll scrub some speed and get ready to take evasive action. "

what evasive action would that be, ejector seat? If a car comes round the corner and a head-on collision happens you are going to die...end of.

Assertive riding, owning your space etc. is all well and good on urban roads, on country lanes how are you going to stop someone using the oncoming lane to overtake you on a blind corner and the then pulling in inches from your front wheel? If another car comes round the car you are all going to die.

I have a corner like this on my commute. I've found if I ride at the side of the road (about 1m off the kerb), everyone and their dog will overtake me, with inches to spare if need be, meaning they are endangering both anyone coming round the corner, and me as well. If I sit far out almost in the middle of the road, but not so far out that I'd get hit by oncoming traffic, then anyone who is stupid enough to overtake and pull in suddenly doesn't matter because they I have loads of room to veer left in. It also makes it much less likely that they'll overtake in the first place, because they think of it as doing an illegal overtaking manouvre, whereas if you're in the normal place, they think of it as passing a bike, which doesn't seem to count for most drivers.

Joe

I agree that most of the problem driving I see is down to ignorance, lack of observation and stupidity, on behalf of drivers (probably myself included at times, we all make mistakes at some point). On behalf of bikers it's generally though consciously chosen stupidity - RLJing, popping on and off the pavement, squeezing up gaps when the traffic is about to kick off again. Cyclists seem to be so much more aware of the road rules, but then so much more willing to consciously flout them if it suits them (and then try to claim they're somehow safer or it improves their safety if they do this). As said earlier, get into a verbal altercation with a driver and the first thing they spout is red light jumping, the second thing is usually the usual tax nonesense (as if you couldnt possibly own a car).

I do the same, I sit in the middle of the lane, years ago that would have stopped people overtaking, now some people are prepared to use the oncoming lane. If they do and have a head on collision with another car you are likely to be hit by flying debris, bodies, the oncoming car, a car behind you etc and be very lucky to survive.

I agree about giving yourself room to to veer into if they pull in suddenly, however what I am talking about is if they actually hit another car head-on (a more regular occurance than you would imagine) if their reactions are not quick enough to veer out of the way. In this situation NO road-craft can help you, you are a sitting duck

Pjay, take a wee break from commuting on the road. I do feel your mindset can be potrayed into physical/positioning etc. If someone rides too close to the gutter or hesitates in getting into their lane etc.

Ive ridden on the road for the first time in a couple of weeks this morning. Early on in the day a lad was run over and crushed by a truck turning left at some lights. I saw his bike and remains of his helmet along with a large pool of bloody (covered in fine lime?/chalk). It didnt effect me but I had a couple of near misses around that junction previously- obviously it did though and I decided to knock riding in for a couple of weeks as I 'jumped' everytime a car passed me (a sort of nervousness).

Must admit almost got wiped out 2 days ago by a woman who just didn't see/wasn't looking for a cyclist on the roundabout. Only my sprint saved me... she was shocked though when she realised it though.

I think my defensive riding has improved whilst the car drivers have remained about the same - so it feels better for me on the roads.
I'm riding about 70% country B-Roads in Sussex so quite busy B-roads especially as there's a couple of primary schools.

The main troubles come at the changes of seasons; the first week after the summer hols when the roads get busy again and people are stressing about return to work / little johnnies 1st day at school etc.... Then the first couple of weeks after the clocks change in Oct with driving in the dark and then excitement of driving fast when the clocks change back to BST.

Interesting debate, I've felt the same myself in recent years - a sad indictment of where this sh!thole of a country is heading, funny how getting behind the wheel brings out the worst in so many people and reflects society in general.

I agree that it's got progressively worse in recent years, careful considerate drivers are in the minority (>10%?), the majority drive badly 'without due care' (70%?) and as already said an increasing number drive to deliberately endanger us (20%?).

All hope is not lost though, although the 70% are easier to deal with than the 20%.

It sounds as though you are thinking about doing the right things there's always something you can learn from John Franklins '[i]Cyclecraft[/i]' and strange as it may seem the Police Driving Manual '[i]Roadcraft[/i]' or even Stephen Hayley's excellent '[i]Mind Driving[/i]'. Make yourself and your intentions clear and seen, through positioning, arm signals, eye contact and clothing, lights. [Regrettably I've taken to wearing a white lid and hi-viz on the commute - it should be the drivers responsibility to "look" not our responsibility to "make ourselves seen" but again, the reality is we need to do what we can to help ensure our own safety].

Look again at your observation skills - could anything have given you an indication something was going to happen before it did and given you time to react, got you see them or there mirrors, eye contact again?

Be assertive [b]and[/b] defensive if that makes sense. As it sounds you have been, take space / create space to move into, don't go for non-existent or closing gaps, cover the brakes, don't become the 'jam in the sandwich'.

I know it's hard not to do a "Ton" but resist rising to challenges, try to create as many "pro-social" situations as you can.

What I mean by "pro-social" is let others past where its safe, give everyone a friendly "thank-you", acknowledgement waves, get eye contact and smile. Stop to let people cross the road, keep side junctions clear, think twice before heading to the front of the queue if it's not going to get you any further etc.

Good luck, stick with and remember...

Let's be careful out there!

AnalogueAndy "pro-social" spot on!

If we all do that tomorrow, the drivers won't know what's hit them 🙂
Give a thumbs up to a car driver as they give you enough room when they pass, wave a bus driver through a junction ahead of you, smile at the good drivers, let an HGV driver past you. It really does improve the ride.

"pro-social"? I call my commute route the 'wavy-hand route'. i.e. I wave thanks where ever I can and set off at the sametime whenever I can so hopefully roughly the same commuters may see me and think 'thats possibly that polite cyclist again' as they pass me.

Fanciful thinking but thanks goes along way.

What happens is that brits who live in cities/suburbia go on holiday to France and pootle around backroads in the middle of nowhere at off peak times and say 'oh isn't France great for cycling'.

I am convinced the " pro social" as you call it works. Assertive defensive riding and being polite to other road users. I try to do it. sometimes however I just click into brain out commuter / courier mode, overtaking caars all teh way down the hill home. I really must take a vid of a rush hour trip thru edinbugh in that mode. Not jumping lights or going on pavements however

I try to be polite and considerate when riding and to be fair, so do many drivers, I think that that's the way to go whatever mode of transport you're using. There are a couple of cycleways where I ride that cross busy roads and quite often car will stop to let me across; raising a hand and smiling is the right thing to do and it is amazing how much nicer it makes a ride. I'm certainly not out to label all car drivers as idiots, but there are some (and some idiot cyclists too) and they can make things scary (quite possibly for other car users too).

There does seem to be something about cyclists though that single them out, I live in the country and people don't seem to get irrate about a herd of cows in the road and I don't recall ever seeing a car driver act like an idiot when passing a horse and rider (they all seem to crawl pass giving as big a gap as possible) - but not for cyclists.

Quite a lot of people believe that cyclists are those who can't afford cars and are so unworthy of notice. I've been told many times that it's a shame that I can't afford a car I just smile and shrug, let them get on with it they'll never believe otherwise.

[i]There does seem to be something about cyclists though that single them out, I live in the country and people don't seem to get irrate about a herd of cows in the road and I don't recall ever seeing a car driver act like an idiot when passing a horse and rider (they all seem to crawl pass giving as big a gap as possible) - but not for cyclists. [/i]

I was going to write something similar on the Times Online article that was linked to yesterday about drivers overtaking too close/cycle lanes not being well designed but couldn't log-in. Oh well. You're right though.

Agree about the "pro-social" thing as well. It's one reason why it's seldom worth getting into an altercation on a commute cos you see the same people at the same times every day and, if you've caused damage to a car, it's not going to be difficult to track you down.
On the other hand most situations can be diffused by a wave of thanks or an acknowledgment of being in the wrong.

Aracer out of interest where have you been cycling in France?

One thing that most on here can do is to overtake cyclists properly when driving. I'll make a point of slowing down, moving right over to the other side of the road, indicating etc. If you check your mirrors afterwards, you will often see people copying you. Through this method hopefully people might learn something.

For the guy who thinks 20% of drivers are out to kill him.... Either you're very wrong, or we all need to know where you live! Fact is, you simply don't remember the massive majority of drivers who are considerate. I can clearly remember the 5 close calls I've had, and I'd say all were caused by poor driving rather than a desire to hurt me on purpose. I don't remember the many thousands of cars who have passed me safely.

I agree with the person who said that more attention needs to be paid to cyclists in the driving test. I think people are simply not aware of how a bike moves on the road, speeds and positioning etc. Therefore they'll find it acceptable to overtake approaching junctions and traffic lights or cut close simply because they are ignorant. The biggest problem is that cyclists are almost always seen as an obstacle. Sometimes I find myself in this mode, and need to snap myself out of it.

There was an item on bbc breakfast news today - making Bristol the country's first official 'cycling city' - one interesting point (IIRC) was that 20-odd (?) years ago the level of cycling in Copenhagen was about the level it is/has been is Cardiff, at about 2%, now it's something like 50% - tho' having been there, it does seem like there's more room for cycle lanes.

I've just come back from hols in the Black Forest - Tubingen and Freiburg. Admittedly they're both university towns with the advantage of more space for cycle paths, but there were loads of bikes, and across the age spectrum - quite a few in the 50s or more were touring, too. I barely saw anyone wearing a helmet, apart from the occasional roadie or mtber.

P'raps I'm lucky where I live - nw surrey/SW London - you get the occasional twunt, and in a week of commuting mebbe receiving some abuse or being shouted at a couple of times, mostly it's dimwits that think you're going slowly 'cos you're on a bike pull a last moment maneuver.

[i]For the guy who thinks 20% of drivers are out to kill him.... Either you're very wrong, or we all need to know where you live! [/i]

Strangely enough, my commute takes me from Bath to.... Bristol.

You're right, although it some times seems that way it's nowhere near as bad as "20%" - just some days I seem to meet all of them!

I call my commute route the 'wavy-hand route'. i.e. I wave thanks where ever I can

Cycling home the other night down a narrowish street lined with cars on either side and room for only one car to pass down the road. I'm following a car down when it comes to a halt. Up ahead a van is approaching but it pulls into a gap and flashes to the car that it can proceed. The car pulls off and I follow leaving a car and a half length gap between me and the car in front.

As we approach the van the driver of the car gives him a wave and the van driver waves back.

As I approach the van, seconds behind the car, I also give the van driver a wave.

He shakes his head at me with a look of rage on his face.

been told many times that it's a shame that I can't afford a car I just smile and shrug

If only the majority of car drivers knew how much we spent on our rides...mind you if they did they would feel a bit inferior in their cheap little rot boxes which would bring its own problems

I think the problem with a lot of motorists is just pure ignorance. Once you've accepted that a lot of people probably aren't as skilled behind the wheel of the car as they should be its generally easier to get into the right mindset for taking appropriate avoiding action.

Some silly woman overtook me as I was overtaking a line of parked cars on a downhill bend yesterday. I think she got a bit of a shock as a fat bloke on a single speed 29er can travel really quite quickly downhill and the blind corner she was approaching on the wrong side of the road came up rather faster than she would have liked. I had to feather my brakes to let her get back on the right side of the road. Made me chuckle.

After reading this post when new and then going on a road ride I found that sure I was cut up and vans gave me zero space when overtaking etc.

Normally I wouldn't think a hoot and moaned to a pal etc

Thank god the pal I rode with was positive cyclist and made me forget (shut up and stop moaning zaskar and enjoy the ride stw is fll of nutters...).

Become one with the bike and have life insurance, enjoy ride- sorted.

Ommmmm Ommmm Ommmm 😈