[Closed] Sram Apex & Rival - how do they compare to Tiagra and 105?

Sram is lighter Shimano is smoother.

Any reliability/longevity differences?

I just bought a road bike also! I was strongly advised to steer clear of the SRAM double tap system because it's so hard to get used to it. You use the same lever for up and down shifts and all too often you end up in a higher gear when what you really needed was a lower one.

Ah. This is what I want to hear..

SRAM DoubleTap is hard to get used to?

That's cobblers - it took me one ride to feel at home with it. The brake hoods are very ergonomic and the lever action is great.

The only bad thing I can find is that SRAM don't seem to know how to make front derailleurs. The shifting on the frt derailleur was lazy and sometimes wouldn't shift completely to the big ring. This, no matter that it was perfectly - and I mean perfectly - aligned.

A quick test by swapping a spare Campag frt derailleur onto the bike and hey presto - frt shifting is perfect. SRAM have been renowned for cheesy frt derailleurs on MTB's for some time and that appears to have carried over onto the Road side too.

I have got rival on my road bike. The double tap does not take long to get used to. Took me about 10mins on first ride. I really like it. But yes it isn't as smooth as shimano However I love it and will be upgrading to force when I can

Double post. - bloody phone

I had a rapid rise for a while on the mtb and am still confused months later, but have never had issues with the double tap.

That said 105 is just nicer to use.

Hang on, I once had a rapid rise rear mech. I hated it on sight. Couldn't get my head round it. The Sram double tap is rapid rise? (its early for me, apologies for confused state).

I was strongly advised to steer clear of the SRAM double tap system because it's so hard to get used to it.

I'm afraid whoever told you that must be a complete simpleton! It's 1 lever on Sram that you push either a little bit to go down the gears or a bit more to the 2nd click to go up. not exactly rocket science...

I used to be a die hard Shimano man but I now don't own a Shimano kitted road bike, I prefer the shifter shape of the Sram levers and I like the short throw to change gears, you hardly have to press them. I also like the fact that if you break the Sram levers you can get spares to fix them, with Shimano it's practically bin fodder.

I use Force on most of my bikes but have Apex on my commuting/training bike and bar a bit of weight the shifters all feel the same in action.

I have SRAM Apex and there amazing! Quite a bit lighter than the 105.
Double tap is ace, and means you can break and shift at the same time (if your good).
I've had no problems with my set, and can highly recommend them.

I must admit it took me about one ride to get used to the SRAM on my CX bike, but bearing in mind i've done thousands of miles with it now I have to say I think it's fantastic. It isn't as smooth as say 105 or the Ultegra equivilent but It's massively reliable, even in muddy conditions (hence CX bike). Very quick downshift and light upshift. I wouldn't say it's better than shimano, but its at least as good, surely that's enough?!

I've got Tiagra on my winter bike and find it pretty crap! Even with new cables etc the shifting's nowt special. I'd be inclined to try SRAM if you get in with the ergonomics of the shifters, which like the MTB parts, is what it really boils down to.

Quick question on gearing - I was thinking 50/34 and circa 11/32 as its hills etc - to help a newbie climb. Good idea?

You won't need 11/32 on the back, 11/25 is plenty. Believe me, if I can get up Ventoux on it, it's plenty.

A road bike is much, much lighter than an MTB, so you just don't need the teeny twiddly gears.

[EDIT]Plus you want the gaps between ratios as close as possible to maintain steady cadence

difference between Tiagra and 105 is marked - 105 is noticeably better in terms of shifting.

I just bought a road bike also! I was strongly advised to steer clear of the SRAM double tap system because it's so hard to get used to it

RE. Gearing. 11-25 will be plenty with a compact. Anything higher and you'll get horrible jumps between gear ratios. I live in a *hilly area and when I used a compact I never found myself wanting for other gears.

Typical climbs, anything form 10-17%

I've never used SRAM on the road so can't comment on a comparison, but my 105 5600 shifters work fantastically on and off road (they've been on the road bike then CX bike). new 5700's on the road bike which I've not tried yet, but the hood shape and lever feel on the workstand feel different to 5600 105. I really don't like Tiagra shifters - very long lever through and a bit clunky feeling.

Anyway, gearing - depends where you're going to ride. I'd consider a 11-32 if your rides will entail lakeland passes and the like - far steeper than most stuff you find in the alps.

Mulletus Maximus I'm a newbie though and everyone will tell you climbing on a mountain bike involves me riding up slower than walking pace 8)

I'm not the best climber either but it's so much easier to maintain a steady rhythm on a road bike. 11-27 is another option if you're unsure.

Me too. SRAM Rival here and no problems with the double-tap system or the quality of shifting from the derailleurs.
Such is the ease of the system - my training bike is Sora based and I have absolutely zero problems switching between the two.
I believe SRAM pitch their groupsets between the Shimano ones. So something like Apex falls [i]between [/i]Tiagra and 105.

50/34 and circa 11/32

This is massive gearing. You need to consider what you will be climbing and the spread of those gears. That said SRAM do something called Wi-Fli which is simply a long-cage derailleur with an MTB cassette.
Try using a gear calculator like the one of Sheldon Brown's site.

Won't SRAM give Hora the choice of using a larger cassette if he want's?
Not 100% certain, but I thought I read that SRAM can cope with 32t.

Anyway my race bike is being rebuilt with Force for the season as we speak.

Yep, the Apex group includes a larger cassette, or you can use a medium cage MTB mech as the cable pull's the same. David Millar (among others) ran an XX 11-32 block at the Giro (or the Vuelta?).

SRAM double tap system because it's so hard to get used to it.

It took me a while (like quite a few rides) to get used to the doubletap shifting on my Rival-equipped bike, but I am a bit of a simpleton.

I tried a bike with 105 and much preferred the shifting action, but the bike I wanted came with SRAM and it [i]is[/i] lighter so I will happily put up with it.

Thanks guys. I'll probably plumb for the Rival groupset. Next question (wheels):

Mavic Askium, Kysrium Equipe (extra £100) or Cosmic Elite? (+150)

The Double Tap levers are so bloody expensive - Apex is stupidly expensive IMO, particularly compared to the others, I'm not sure why SRAM struggle so much with a sensible pricing hierarchy - X.0 and XX are the same, virtually identical on various parts!

I'd not get Aksiums, probably plump for the Equipes from that. Or Hope Hoops on Open Pros or sommat.

To backtrack slightly I could always go for the 105 instead of Rivals (same price) but I'd need to have feel of the ergonomics.

Its all new to me. On my mountain bike my rear mech's a 11yr old XTR and the shifters are Attack's so shifting has never been on my radar 😆

Road stuff lasts about 5 times longer, so you'll probably get half a century out of whatever you choose!

Prefer Shimano myself due to the hood shape vs SRAM. Double-tap is easy to get used to though, only takes a couple of minutes

Go for a ride on double-tap before buying. I don't like it really, but still considering it, because weight is a really important feature for me. If 105 was the same weight and price as Apex, it would be an absolute no-brainer for me.
Unfortunately Apex-equipped bikes are usually priced similar to Tiagra and that makes the weight difference pretty huge.

I've got Tiagra on my winter bike and find it pretty crap! Even with new cables etc the shifting's nowt special.

I've had my tiagra-equipped bike for a couple of weeks now and may tend to agree. Whilst the proper STI levers feel better than the old Sora ones I had, I don't feel that the shifting is any smoother. I wouldn't say I find it crap though, just probably not as good as everyone seems to say it is.

Go for a ride on double-tap before buying. I don't like it really, but still considering it, because weight is a really important feature for me. If 105 was the same weight and price as Apex, it would be an absolute no-brainer for me.
Unfortunately Apex-equipped bikes are usually priced similar to Tiagra and that makes the weight difference pretty huge.

Confused. 105 is alot lighter than Apex or vice versa?

I wouldn't say I find it crap though, just probably not as good as everyone seems to say it is.

Having ridden my Dura Ace (only 7800) bike yesterday I'd say it's crap! Definitely worse than Deore vs XTR. I ought to change all the cables, and it certainly needs new jockeys, but even so!

Agree with FuzzyWuzzy. The feel of the Shimano hoods are better compared to Sram. And for the shifting, do you want one shifting movement or two?

IF I were to build another bike I would definitely go for Shimano as the shifting performance is a lot smoother.

Try and have a go on both if you can to see which you prefer.

Edit; opinions base on Sram Rival verses Shimano Ultegra.

The feel of the Shimano hoods are better compared to Sram.

Surely it's entirely subjective? I think the Sram hoods are a better shape for me. I recently rode a new demo bike with Ultegra shifters and thought they were horrible to hold and the lever throw is huge compared to Sram, no quick shifting here!

As the OP is a newbie to road I think he'll get used to either system and hood shape pretty quickly. BYW 34/50 with a 11/12-26/28 Cassette would be enough for most people, even the least gifted climber unless your tackling the Alps or Lakeland passes.

Did mean to say IMO.

no quick shifting here!

Woah! When I said I'd been advised against double tap, really this is what I was told from two people I trust. One is my local bike shop the other is my brother whose a second cat racer and has gone well under the hour for a 25. So they have an informed opinion, but it is still just an opinion.

Anyway, since the consensus seems to be very contrary to my comment Hora, have a look at this:

[url= http://www.evanscycles.com/products/sram/force-compact-groupset-oe--ec032477?query=sram ]SRAM Force Groupset for £599[/url]

I was pretty close to buying it then I got the feedback on doubletap and didn't bother!

Also at Evanscycles ^^^^^ use the code 10NY to get 10% off ie £540

my brother whose a second cat racer and has gone well under the hour for a 25

not sure how that qualifies anything?

I'm another with Sram Doubletap on one bike and 105 on another and no problems 'getting used' to either. Remembering where reverse is in my GFs car after driving mine causes me far more problems!

Slight hijack: anyone find the lever throw for the front mech a bit long on doubletap? I suspect I've just got a poorly set up front mech - it's never been quite enough of an annoyance to see if there is a problem....

not sure how that qualifies anything?

It's a different way of saying, 'he's been racing bikes since he was 12, so basically the last 22 years, has had bikes with groupsets from the three main manufacturers, has been a sponsored rider by Trek UK so he has enough experience to have a valid opinion'

But like I said, it's still just an opinion and he would be the first to admit that opinions are like arse holes.

Everyone's got one and they mostly all stink (some stink more than others though).

SRAM Rival is quite a bit lighter than 105 and Ultegra if that matters to you. Thats why I bought it (plus it was on offer at Merlin last year)

I like it, hoods feel comfier than Ultegra and its easier to shift up gears whilst braking.

took me a couple of minutes to get used to Double Tap

Confused. 105 is alot lighter than Apex or vice versa?

Sorry - didn't mean to confuse.
Apex lighter than 105

When looking at complete bikes Apex is a lot cheaper than 105
When looking at groupsets Apex seems overpriced - Force looks better value online.

So when I was looking at complete bikes, the choice is basically Apex or Tiagra. Then the weight differential is even more exaggerated. So I thought I'd put up with the double-tap.

If I'd have been able to get a 105 bike for the same price as an Apex one, then it would be different.

Mind you, I've never liked Sram on the mountain bike, so it's probably biased my opinion.

A little bit late with this but tour's groupset comparison might be quite helpful - [url= http://www.tour-qtr.com/epaper_4_2011 ]http://www.tour-qtr.com/epaper_4_2011[/url]

And my 2 cents - I found using the brake lever for shifting on shimano road groups horrible. Might have been because I'd only ever used mtb shifting previously, but I really didn't get on with it. Especially trying to brake and shift at the same time. People don't seem to complain about it much though, but I found I much preferred Sram road groups primarily because of this. And from what I can gather apex through to force don't really have very much differences apart from weight savings, and the sram groups are already lighter than shimano's offerings by quite a bit.