I’m in the process of building a wheelset but due to my poor use of DT spoke calculator the spokes are all 2mm too long; I know there are spoke threading and cutting machines in the world, does anyone know of somewhere you can send your spokes to get them shortened? The spokes in question are Pillar Aero X-Tra 1420, very similar to DT Aerolite or Sapim CX-Ray.
Cheers
Wouldn't personally bother buy some more spokes. The only spoke cutting tools I have used are fine if the length of spoke isn't available but they are not the best formed of threads.
I think ben cooper has one.
You'll be lucky with bladed spokes, you can't thread the bladed section. How much round bit have you got to play with?
My LBS has a spoke tool, but I've never seen it used for 2mm, generally on things like kids bikes or BMXs where you wanted to dramatically shorten the spoke, I'm not sure you'd get a nice continuation of the original thread.
Have you actually tried building the wheels? It may not be insurmountable.
There's at least 10mm of unthreaded round before the thread starts so should be plenty by my untrained eye, I have tried building with them and it was impossible, all bottomed out before anything like required tension 🙁 A new set of these spokes would be over a hundred quid as well, not the end of the world but I'd rather avoid.
I have one but only ever use it for really odd length spokes and for the cost of sending them and re-threading and posting back it would probably be pence more too buy new.
PS the Phil wood tool does a very clean job and threads are rolled nicely compaired too the cheaper hand cranked ones as they seem to produce a crap finish
I'd say there's significantly more than 2mm in it if you genuinely can't get [i]any [/i]tension in the wheel before they bottom out.
You're not using very long nips or anything odd are you? You will gain a bit of extra with 12mm nips if you're using 16s, unlikely enough to take up the slack though.
I have tried building with them and it was impossible, all bottomed out before anything like required tension
They are a lot more than 2mm out then. You should easily be able to use spokes 2mm out
Hmm fair enough I'm very much a novice wheelbuilder so maybe I mixed my spokes up when lacing, I only tried the front wheel so I'll try the rear wheel this time, I'll report back when I have. I am using 14mm nipples by the way, is there any loss in strength for using 12mm ones? Thanks for the replies peoples.
No lose using 12mm over 14mm don't forget to measure them and put the right ones in lol
Couldn't you put washers under the spoke head...
No, I'm not an expert but having once plumbed the washing machine outlet into a toilet downpipe...I do like bodges. 😀
Have you got your crossings right or right in the calculator?
What is your hub rim spoke combo?
You do know DT AEL and Sapim CX ray have nothing in common right.
You do know DT AEL and Sapim CX ray have nothing in common right.
Well they're both a bit of a pain to build with 🙂
Well I tried building the rear wheel and ran into the same problem, couldn't get any tension before the spokes bottomed out, rather bemused. I checked the spoke lengths, the rim ERD and hub measurements, as well as the cross pattern when building, and all seemed as it should. I'm not giving up on this set of spokes just yet though, good to know 12mm nipples will be fine, I'll order a load of those and try them before anything else. Washers under the nipples are an option as well, to be fair from what I've read they'll actually strengthen the rim, I'll look at getting some of them as well.
If it's of any use this is the whole build spec:
-Front Wheel:
Rim: 2013 E13 TRS+ Scandium 650b ERD: 560mm
Hub: Superstar Switch Ultra-LITE PCD Left: 58mm PCD Right: 45mm Flange Left: 21mm Flange Right: 38mm Spoke Hole ID: 2.5mm
Spokes: 32x Pillar Aero X-tra 1420 laced 3 cross
Nipples: Pillar PT 734 14mm Alloy
-Rear wheel:
Rim: 2013 E13 TRS+ Scandium 650b ERD: 560mm
Hub: Superstar Superleggera Ti Torq Edition PCD Left: 58mm PCD Right: 58mm Flange Left: 35mm Flange Right: 22mm Spoke Hole ID: 2.5mm
Spokes: 32x Pillar Aero X-tra 1420 laced 3 cross
Nipples: Pillar PT 734 14mm Alloy
Having just done a bit more research into nipple washers, if anyone happens to have at least 64 spare Sapim HM Polyax nipple washers hanging around and wouldn't mind me buying them it would be much appreciated, I can only find them as bulk buys online, cheers.
Did you measure all parameters your self or use internet numbers ?
You've not mentioned what length spokes you have, from my use of DT's calculator i'm making 268/272 for the front,268/270 for the rear using 14mm nipples.Another question, have you got pro-lock type nipples with a thread-locking insert, as it will feel as though the spoke is bottoming out when you reach the insert.
I've double checked all the measurements and come up with the same numbers as I found online 🙁 Sorry forgot about my spokes, I've got 271/274 on the front and 271/272 for the rear, perhaps a little more out than I thought, thanks for checking. Good idea with the locking nipples but I've just checked and that isn't the case, they really are bottoming out. I've got some 12mm nipples on order and am chasing down some washers, if that doesn't work I've found someone with a Phil Wood machine who is up for having a go at lengthening the thread, I'll report back in a bit. Thanks for the help peoples!
You'll need to cut the excess off as well as re thread.
Don't do it with nipple washers, that won't solve the depth inside the rim problem and they may well sit oddly. Bung them up to me if you get stuck and I can cut and rethread.
I'm sure you have, and don't know if it would even account for the discrepancy but have you definitely rotated the hub sufficiently before your third set of spokes?
This thread needs to stop now, I am contemplating either the cylo or the hozan tool. Damn you all.
Slight hijack....
Has anyone ever been able to get the Cyclo spoke thread rolling tool to work quickly and easily? I've used two and I'll be buggered if I can get them to work reliably.
Indeed; ah righto thanks for the advice and the offer Ben, the spokes aren't actually sticking into the rim overly much so I don't think that's a problem, but I won't use the washers if there's any hint of them not sitting right. I've found someone with a Phil Wood machine, they're happy to cut and thread the lot of them for a tenner which sounded reasonable?
I was thinking that Munkster, I reckon I have as it seemed if I rotated things anymore then spokes would start crossing spokes heads from the same flange, I'm going to have another check tonight though to make sure I'm not going mad, all good practice at lacing wheels.
And I'm sorry Toys 😉
PeterPoddy:
I have a Cyclo tool I use at work (as I'm on the C2C route!) and use it for maybe 4-5 spokes a week in season, at most. I find it works fine and is perfectly acceptable as a 'get out of jail' play for passers by if I don't have a workable spoke.
I'm anal about oiling it for each roll, never rolling stainless spokes and roll 2-3 times for each thread, tightening the dies each pass after testing a nipple on it. Works much better when you have an existing thread to chase, then extend, cut and de-burr. In answer to your question, I certainly find it reliable, just not quick! Its a great service for me to offer customers though, as I can always make something work to get them going, just not the most profitable!
It is a real faff though, and I spend a few minutes on each spoke! I have it strictly for repairs though, and for that, it does its job well, all things considered. I wouldn't contemplate using it for a full set for a build, such as this threads purpose.
Yeah, I could never get the Cyclo one to work well, it always took several passes to roll the thread. Deburring the end of the cut spoke makes a big difference - though if there's already some thread there for the rolls to get started on it doesn't seem necessary.
Quick update, I posted the spokes off today to get them cut as the 12mm nips and washers weren't quite enough to get things to a proper tension, though the wheel did build up properly and was probably rideable in the short term. So I'm getting them cut by 3mm and I'll go back to using the 14mm nips and only washers on the high tension sides, should give me enough leeway to get things done. I'll post back when I hopefully manage to get a wheel built.
Final update in case anyone is interested, nice chap in Birmingham cut and rethreaded the spokes and I had them back within a few days, then I had to wait a month for some free time but I have now finally got the wheels done, they built up lovely and the spoke length is spot on, quite chuffed. Cheers for the help peoples.
Happy days, well done
How much did he charge? Was it that much cheaper than buying new spokes?
@Njee: Cheers dude.
@mrblobby: He charged £10.80 for 72 spokes, with postage there and back it was still under £20, much better than the £120 it would have been for a new set!