UPDATE: Reviews section refreshed, redesigned, searchable: Go take a look
Hello,
I've got a FlareMax with a "trail" kind of build. Cane creek helm 2 140mm, hope fortus 30sc +pro5 wheels, schwalbe Magic Mary front + Nobby nic rear. I love the bike but it does feel a bit slow to ride (mostly tyres I suppose).
I'm thinking about giving it a bit of a makeover and trying to shed a bit of weight, putting some fox 34sl (factory, 130mm), lighter wheels (xm481?), faster tyres (barzos/mezcal?).
I know cotic did similar builds, I'm wondering if anyone here has done a similar transformation (or maybe to a similar bike) and can comment on whether it'll be worth it or am I wasting my time and I should save up for another bike
edit: Obviously goes without saying the fitness of the rider is second to none and it's the bike that needs to change
Fast tyres will make 90% of the difference for 10% of the cost.
Rock Razor or equivalent semi slick in the back and a lighter front feels like the best bang for buck.
The difference between summer (RR + Racing Ralph) and winter modes (Magic Mary + DHR2) on my hardtail is really noticeable.
I don’t think I’d bother changing wheels etc, sure it’ll make a difference but nothing like as much as the tyres will for a fraction of the cost.
schwalbe Magic Mary front + Nobby nic rear. I love the bike but it does feel a bit slow to ride (mostly tyres I suppose).
I'm getting a pair of Maxxis Forekaster's for my birthday tomorrow for my Stage Evo. They are replacing Maxxis DHF and DHR. I'm hoping they add a dose of zip to the bike - it's not that slow a bike, particularly when it's pointed down, but it feels tractor to pedal on flat or uphill.
I too have some slightly chunkier wheels, but I'm hoping the tyres do most of the job. Each tyre is 250g lighter, plus tread pattern is faster...
Forekasters feel massively faster than dhf/dhr. Not really much of a drop in grip either. They work well for me
Thanks for the replies, yeah I figured tyres would be best bang for buck though have read a lot of posts/reviews around saying that lighter wheels also makes a huge difference. I guess sensible approach would be just to swap the tyres and see how I get on.
I'd kind of settled in Vittoria tyres but now I'll read a few reviews of the forekaster. Should I be looking at the 3C Max Terra ones?
3C Max Terra
Thems the ones I have, and version 2 if you can.
Edit:
V2 Vs V1 picture here
https://bikepacking.com/gear/maxxis-forekaster-review/
FlareMAX rider here. In what sense does yours feel slow? It's not a comment I would make about mine. I suspect the Helm forks may be relatively heavy. I’ve got Fortus 30SC wheels on my other bike and they are a bit heavier and more robust than I would want on the FlareMAX. The problem with fitting “faster” tyres is that they may feel faster on the boring stuff but be too sketchy on the fun stuff.
In what sense does yours feel slow?
matt_oab sums up better than I can but "it feels tractor to pedal on flat or uphill". I'm going to order a pair of forekasters for now and see how it goes, reviews look good.
The helms are ~2.1kg, I could save half a kilo there but will probably leave that for now
On my gen4 I used fox 34 at 140 with roval control carbon wheels (1450g) and reasonably light tyres. Plus carbon bar, xtr cranks. So as light as I could get it really. It still wasn't a light bike at over 14kg but the wheels made a big difference to making it ride lighter. I think the rather active suspension gives it a slightly sluggish feel on climbs.
Forekaster V2/Rekon here. They speeded up my trail bike very nicely.
Much lighter and faster than what I usually run and they were doing a very good job of clinging on to the bone dry kitty litter at Hamsterley today.
My other bike is an e-bike so it still feels like torture when I first get going.
Rotational weight rules all. Look into what your wheels weigh
Also what shock? See if you can tweak it to pedal with less bob. And see if you can optimise your chainring size for more anti squat.
Tyres basically, then wheels, but mostly tyres. I have a FlareMax with a Rock Razor on the back and a Forekaster up front on standard DT Swiss trail wheels, it rolls nicely and has acceptable grip on Peak District trails most of the time. If I want it to feel proper fast, I have a lighter set of Mavics with a Wolfpack Cross 2.4 up front and a lighter casing Rock Razor on the back, or I've run a Racing Ralph there too and something else on the front, a bit sketchier, a bit faster and livelier.
Anyway, the latter set-up feels pretty quick, obviously not as fast as a proper, light XC thing, but lively and the FlareMax is weirdly rapid in a way that doesn't make sense, but is. My trail set-up's a bit less frisky, but still rolls really well.
Anyway, I'd maybe stick the Nic on the front and something really quick on the rear wheel and see how that feels, a lot of rolling resistance comes from the back of the bike, and simply changing the rear will give you the biggest bang for your buck. You'll lose some outright grip, but that's kind of the deal with really fast rolling tyres. The Rock Razor is fantastic, but I'm not even sure they still make it.
Changing the fork and wheels will give you far less speed at a really high cost. I went from an X Fusion Mcqueen to a Manitou Matoc Pro and while the Manitou's a much nicer fork, I can't say the weight saving was something I even noticed. Really light wheels you will feel, but the tyre still makes way more difference.
If you take a look at Guy Kesteven's YouTube channel - GuyKesTV - he did a whole series of videos on a project FlareMax 'down country' build with super lightweight wheels, tyres, fork, a RS SID from memory, which formed the basis for the lightweight builds Cotic were offering as an option. But still, tyres basically.
If you want a bike that's way lighter rather than a bit livelier and faster rolling, yeah, buy some carbon lightweight thing, but it won't have the character and 'thing' of the Cotic.
You could play around with bar height- I’ve found that there are some points where a 10mm spacer just tips me between a racey or relaxed posture. How much is perception vs any biomechanical benefit, who knows, but go too high and the bike feels slower to me.
Also tyres.
Tyres and wheels. The hope wheels are heavy and some faster tyres I’m a bit of a fan of the vittoria aggaro on my short travel bike
they also have Rock Razors
Rear shock? Is this giving the correct amount of support, or wallowing in the mid-travel and robbing your pedalling power?
Also consider fork set-up, tyre pressures and rider position. I'd agree with changing the tyres asap!
Lighter wheels as well as tyres. Keep both sets and then you still have a tougher set when you might need them.
My old Stage 5 felt the same as you describe so after asking on here I switched the Hans Dampf fitted for a Nobby Nick. Certainly made a difference and felt much less draggy but it wasn't as tough and an impact that the Dampf would probably have shrugged off put a slit in the Nick that relegated it to emergency spare.
Horses for courses and all that so consider where you ride before giving up on tough, heavy tires.
consider where you ride before giving up on tough, heavy tires.
My Minion DHF/DHRs are Exo sidewalls - apart from one horrendous gash from landing a jump on a slate, they have been great. The Forekasters are the same sidewall.
Ive done exactly that . I used my flare max for riding enduros in Scotland so had changed the travel from 120 to 130 on the back and 140 on the front . I'd also put a works headset on to slacken the head angle .
When we moved to NZ I got myself a new bike but there was room in the container for the flare so it made the trip and its become my bike for cross country or if downcountry is a thing that .
All I did was change the wheels to a pair of silt xc and fit a pair of Vittoria barzos and I fitted a normal headset which probably proved to me that Cy got the bike right first time and I made it worse messing around with the head angle 😀
The lighter wheels and tyres make a big difference and the barzos are very good . Made me question if even on my bigger bike I really need to be pushing around big sticky tyres . I left the travel alone as I dont think changing it back to 120 / 130 was really going to make much difference.
Carbon wheels (ideally with a low drag freehub ie. probably not DT). Forecaster rear tyre.
Acceleration is what makes a bike feel fast and getting the wheels turning is why rotational weight matters, tyres are an easy fix but its the rims too , those fortus are pretty heavy 700+g each ?
XM481 will be ~200g an end lighter and feel much faster
Horses for courses and all that so consider where you ride before giving up on tough, heavy tires.
Ideally you want tough and fast rolling, which is relative, but entirely feasible. My experience is that you tend to notice reduced rolling resistance before reduced weight, so something like a 2nd generation Forekaster, which isn't particularly light, still feels decently quick because it rolls fast, particularly when you consider that a lot of people are running what are basically DH/enduro tyres for moderate trail use these days.
As I think you're doing I'd stick on a pair of 2.4" Forekaster V2's or some 2.35" Vittoria Barzo's before spending 'proper' money on anything else.
These combined with a set of Hunt XC Race (the lightweight but still aluminium ones) from one of their 40% off sales made my Flaremax feel like a Rocket...or rather not feel like a Rocket 😆
I've ordered a pair of Forekasters, also got carried away and bought a recon race as well just to compare from banana.
I've been window shopping for wheels as well, cant find many bargains anywhere at the moment though. Might hang around for some reserves (30SL) if they ever show up on sale.
I've ordered a pair of Forekasters, also got carried away and bought a recon race as well just to compare from banana.
I've been window shopping for wheels as well, cant find many bargains anywhere at the moment though. Might hang around for some reserves (30SL) if they ever show up on sale.
I gave up waiting for Reserve 30SLs to be decently discounted again!
For lighter rims, these Ghost carbon wheels have been at £350 or similar for ages. The rims are 338g. Wheelset is just under 1500g. Unsure on robustness in longterm, I'm 90kg and giving them hell on my Tallboy without issue so far.
I rebuilt mine onto Pro5s as I wasn't sure on longevity of the 'Ghost'-branded hubs. Probably unnecessary, I'm sure they're fine, but I already had the Hopes.
I've also got some of those Ghost wheels, 1440g on my scales (sram XD), been using them on 2 bikes for 2 years I think now.
i cracked a rear (****ted a rock very hard going down Bearded Lady in Hebden), got a crash replacement rear for half price and now run them with Rimpact XC inserts.
Very light, can feel very stiff if you're going into a pinbally rockgarden section. They've also been ridden hard on my Stumpjumper Evo (with proper inserts, coil) etc and they've stayed true in about a year.
As others have said, tyres. I surprised myself coming through Dalby the other night on some flowy red sections on my gravel bike where I was actually faster than my mountain bike. Despite being rigid, the fast rolling tyres absolutely flew down the (smooth) trails and rocketed up the little climb at the end. Rode the same section 48 hours later on the mountain bike and it actually felt slow in comparison (not something I've ever been aware of - its always felt fast on the mountain bike before).
(mostly tyres I suppose).
Coming here to say exactly the same thing, took off a Assegai/Aggressor combo and replaced with a pair of Hans Dampf, I don't think the weight is in any way significantly changed, but the ride has been literally transformed.
Are there any of the Ghost carbon wheels left at Sport & Leisure? They're pretty zippy.
Fortus 30 SC has a kind of heavy, damp feel I find
Came back to see how you got on OP.
I'm three rides into mine and appreciating a noticeable speed boost, but I'm surprised by (in the dry/damp only so far) how much grip they still have. I'm really happy with the choice of Forekaster.
Late to this, and of course I have the same thoughts as everyone else.
But I thought I'd add that a pair of V2 Forekasters on some carbon wheels made my trail bike feel like it had a rocket up it's arse too a couple of years ago. Such a difference.
Came back to see how you got on OP.
Really good yeah, I've still got the rekon on the back at the moment but it's a lot faster. It so dry and dusty at the moment I don't really know if I can compare the grip with the older tyres, but no complaints at all so far.
Still looking for new wheels though 😄, no bargains found yet
I went from DHF 2.4 and High Roller DD 2.4 to a Rekon and Ardent Race . Massive difference on my Whyte 130crs. Trouble is its 27.5 and has ARC and ARC HD rims which are adding to the rolling weight but its very sure footed . Looking at rims only for a swap over to drop another 100gms at each end as Im never going to be gnarr enough to warrant a ARC30 HD
I had similar issues, was running Nobby Nic and something similar at the other end, also on Fortus; apart from being heavy and draggy, I seemed to get a lot of tears in them; replaced both with Mezcals, and very happy!
(Then, I replaced the Rohloff hub with proper normal gears and was even happier; then replaced the carbon rigid fork with a SID Ultimate - half price in the sales, didn't even really know what I was buying tbh - and then my bike was complete, except for carbon rims. Except now I want a Blur.)
But yes I definitely recommend Mezcals, I always get the graphene ones cos of living near Salisbury Plain which has lots of jaggies in it.
But yes I definitely recommend Mezcals, I always get the graphene ones cos of living near Salisbury Plain which has lots of jaggies in it.
I had a pair that I swapped occasionally for more 'gravel' end of the spectrum rides and they are fabulous.
Show them some damp single-track and a touch of steep and they rapidly run out of grip..
Yes, definitely not the tyre I’d want on a ‘down-country’ trail type MTB that the flare-max is. You need a new bike 😀
Fellow Flaremax owner here. I'm on Pike 130's with XM481/Hope wheels, running Forekaster and Rekon. I've also got a set of Continental Kryptototals that worked nicely last winter. The Maxxis roll fairly well, but I've got a few long rides planned and like the idea of being able to cover a bit more distance a little easier.
Now have a used set of XR391/Hope's coming my way. Going to be sticking a set of Continental Dubnitals on them. This way I've got a second wheelset when I'm doing longer xc/mid wales hill rides. Without going carbon, this seemed to be the cheapest way of shedding a bit more rolling mass.
Guy Kesteven has done a load of tyre reviews and the Continental Dubnitals seem to be the fastest rolling of the lot. Worth watching a few of his videos as it might put a wildcard tyre choice into the mix.
Already using Hope Pro5 hubs, so wanted the discs and gears to line up perfectly without having to adjust them every time.
I'm super happy with the Flaremax! Climbs nicely, comfy enough and handles anything I'll ever want to throw at it. I'd considered getting a lighter XC or gravel bike in addition, but realised I'd be much better off just getting some super easy rolling wheel/tyre's.
If money was no object I'd get a nice set of carbon rims!
Guy Kesteven just put up a mini review of the e13 Optimus tyre and seems to rate them as a fast rolling downcountry type tyre, and they're £25 at the minute. Tempted to get a pair to try, trail casing rear and xc front maybe. He used the xc casing at Ard Rock so they must be alright!
