FWIW, I can get about 50 miles range out of a Shimano E8000 bike with a 500wh battery - and that's a heavy Enduro style one. The key is to use eco mode most of the time. If you use the app to set it to medium assist, it's totally enough for most riding - you just use trail and boost when you need then drop back down.
Winter is worse though - mud and cold temps meant I was getting a range of about 25 miles.
Also, it hasn't broken at all even getting hammered through a minging winter.
Regarding range anxiety - remember that with a Levo you can use the BLevo app to input an intended route and it will manage the battery life such that you don't run out. Can't recall if the Mission Control app can do it as well, but you can customise the assistance percentage and permitted motor current for each level of assistance too.
What chain checker do you use? Mine seems less accurate than a metal rule, and I can’t measure that precisely to judge half a millimetre. Did you actually mean 0.5mm?”
0.5%
Sorry 😳
It’s a standard Park Tools chain checker.
Maybe I’ll ride it for 2 years then sell it when the warranty runs out,
Who to? Nobody with any sense is going to buy secondhand ebikes.
I'd only consider it if the price was low enough to account for the high chance of having to chuck hundreds at it for new motors etc.
Nah.
Well in 2 years time I'll have the choice of spending thousands on new motors and other electronic repairs as it will be out of warranty - or sell it and buy a new one. The new E Bikes by then will surely be more reliable and have 1000 watt hours.
Second-hand E Bikes are already appearing on Facebook so people must be buying them.
It would seem to make sense to wait until the technology gets better before buying one at all. It seems like the technology is not quite there yet, especially when motors are failing before they even hit 2000 miles. Imagine if a Motorbike had that sort of failure rate. However when I've demo'd E Bikes I think they are by the most solo fun I can possibly have, so got to get one or I'll be missing out! Plus I fear they might even get banned from most trails in a few years time, (they are pissing walkers off and knocking fences down in some places near me), so I might have to buy now to enjoy riding these bikes while I can.
Plenty of cars need hundreds (if not thousands) of pounds' worth of repair work when out of warranty - do people only ever buy cars that are still in warranty..?
Yes but the engine on a car does not usually need to be replaced every 1000 miles.
Only distributor or manufacturer apparently. Despite being a shimano service centre we can’t do anything
Turns out that commencal can remotely log into our computer and sort it out 🙂
Yes but the engine on a car does not usually need to be replaced every 1000 miles.
They don’t sit at the Redline for their entire use either though.
grannyjone
Member
Yes but the engine on a car does not usually need to be replaced every 1000 miles.
I've done nearly 4000km in the 10 months i've had mine, with no motor issues at all, and that's riding in all conditions. If you post queries about component reliability, cracked frames etc etc on forums, then you tend to get all the horror stories reported back.
That said, there have been some problems with water ingress and the motor units on Levos and Kenevos, particularly when the bikes are power washed without care. They do have a large market share in UK E-MTB sales for a reason though, and there are hundreds of riders who've had no major problems for every rider that has had a motor failure.
Yes, motor life on an e-bike does add another expense to maintaining the bike; but when the 2 year motor warranty expires on mine, i'll either be using one of the growing number of e-bike motor servicing companies, or replacing the motor at a similar cost to a decent pair of forks, drivetrain, or wheelset.
tomhoward
Subscriber
Yes but the engine on a car does not usually need to be replaced every 1000 miles.They don’t sit at the Redline for their entire use either though.
Neither do a vast majority of e-mtb riders (in my experience, of course).
Christ. I'm reading this thread with horror.
I was thinking about an emtb for my 50th in a few years time, but they're clearly not a mature product if they need so much after care and warranty work.
I went with the Levo SL myself and its a different beast, but when my only option was 'Full fat' e-bikes, I trawled the forums for months researching which one to go with. The conclusion I came to was that 90% of E-bikers jet wash their bikes and run some method of avoiding the speed limiter, and fly around on TURBO everywhere, which is really all outside the manufacturers intended parameters, so you cant really say its bad design.
‘You only hear horror stories’
Indeed.
Not from me though, my cube e stereo has been fine. Bosch motor.
Just for balance, every type day of consumer product has a % of failure.
From all the reading I've been doing (not just on here, but other places), it seems that the specialized e mountain bikes are more prone to issues than the bosch or shimano e mountain bikes.
That could be a totally incorrect conclusion but it's the impression that I'm left with after doing a fair bit of trawling the Internet.
Maybe specialized have sold more than all the others, who knows.
That's the impression I get. Apparantly the Turbo Levo has sold more than any other EMTB so it's bound to have more problems reported than average.
It would be interesting to find out if this is the cause of all these reported issues or if they really are just less reliable than some of the other E Bikes.
Regarding de restriction. Most people I know de restrict their E Bikes just so they get the boring road sections out of the way with quicker! Particularly those who ride from home to the trails but have got miles of boring road to get there.
I can't see myself doing that, maybe when the warranty runs out in 2 years I might. But until then that warranty could be worth a fortune (I've seen 6 motors in 2 years reported by someone in this thread) so would not want to void it!
The impression I got when demo'ing them is you've just have to make the routes "extreme" enough so that the 15mph limit is rarely a problem! Loads of flat or mellow gradients is no good.
Regarding the bike washing - I was my regular bikes with a Fontus Unit ( https://www.howetools.co.uk/bosch-green-fontus-body-18v-power-washer?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjwka_1BRCPARIsAMlUmEpRdZiA7Lg-oCrue35ncZjjAYsBw1sGsMmbKnVPYzRBIqZrrzhPcuQaAtzmEALw_wcB) which provides power up to 15 bar (I only use maximum pressure on the wheels though!).
It has not caused any problems, but would this be bad for the E Bike ?
Genuinely astonished by the failure rate talking about here. Every bit of kit has its problems but this is not good at all.
Was debating getting my dad one for his 70th next year but that’s not happening now, no way.
This is a bit worrying. I am close to pulling trigger on a levo, but don't want to deal with warrenty stuff....
I've put my bosche powerfly through hell, including relatively frequent sal****er exposure, and it seems good as new.
Anyone owned both and comment on relative reliability?
I had a Powerfly for 2500 miles, 4 motors and one frame...
Never jet washed, but ridden hard in all conditions, especially Forest of Dean winter slop.
The Bosch Gen2 motor has a design flaw; the small chain ring. It traps dirt beneath the chain which then gets ground into a fine paste and forced through the bearings. A known issue, thankfully the Bosch warranty is even better than the Spesh warranty as it resets every time you have a new motor.
However, there are Bosch motors in commuter bikes with many tens of thousands of miles on them and US Bosch MTB owners don’t report the same failure so often.
On no occasion did a failed motor leave me stranded, nor did I ever see an error code.
The Gen4 has a normal sized chain ring so shouldn’t suffer the same issues.
I’ve never owned a Levo, but as I said earlier in the thread, every single person I know personally with one has had at least one motor each.
I do wonder if this is one of those cases where anecdotal evidence provides a very inaccurate and misleading picture of reality.
Or maybe I’m just lucky or maybe my Levo’s motor is about to self-destruct? I only know two other people with Levo’s but theirs have been fine too.
I never use a pressure washer on my bikes and washing them at all is a rare occurrence (a few times a year at most). I just keep the drivetrain and suspension vaguely clean and lubed. I ride them in all weathers, rain, mud, whatever.
chiefgrooveguru
MemberI do wonder if this is one of those cases where anecdotal evidence provides a very inaccurate and misleading picture of reality.
Or maybe I’m just lucky or maybe my Levo’s motor is about to self-destruct? I only know two other people with Levo’s but theirs have been fine too.
This echoes my thoughts exactly, CGG 😁
All those who never wash their bikes ? Surely the bikes can't be nice to ride if they're constantly covered in mud and shit ?
Surely working on the bikes must be pretty horrible if they're filthy ?
Also they'll be an eye sore when stored and make the garage or shed dirty.
4 motors in 2500 miles - absolutely shocking! That's on average a failure every 625 miles. 625 miles is absolutely sod all for an E Bike, I would do that in no time if I had one. When I demo'd a Levo Turbo last Summer I did over 150 miles in 3 days.
What about the reliability of non-motorised componants on these E Bikes ?
Are they more durable than (for example) a Stumpjumper ?
My Stumpjumper came with a Roval Traverse rear wheel which only lasted a year until the freehub failed and I binned it to get a new Hope one. The Command Post was binned after a year. The pivot bearings near the bottom bracket are only small and don't last long before they need replacing.
Does the Levo Turbo have these problems or are those componants more durable ?
I am hoping that because weight saving isn't as important that at least some of the componants are more durable.
The only ‘ebike specific’ bits on Spesh bikes, IIRC, are (sometimes) the fork and shifter (no multiple shifts). If you broke stuff on a standard one, you’re going to break them on the electric one.
It's very hard to gauge the durability of eBike wheels, there's so many bought by dentists that the first thing to go is the wheels.
4 motors in 2500 miles – absolutely shocking! That’s on average a failure every 625 miles
That really is ridiculous, frankly at the cost I'd be expecting 1 motor to last double that.
Do people/Specialized thing this is OK? Am I just being a bit naive?
Thing is, you don't know whether these failures are people riding everywhere in 34/11 in Turbo mode at massively low cadences, overheating the motor and stressing the entire drivetrain or not.
Also OP, no disrespect, but from your username I recall your posting history of not really working on your bikes yourself, being reliant on a (less-than-stellar) mechanic, and trashing everything in sight really quickly. I'd say that right now an e-bike probably isn't for you.
“Do people/Specialized thing this is OK? Am I just being a bit naive?”
I suspect any naivety is if you’re believing that all Levo’s are this unreliable! Anecdotal evidence isn’t worth the paper it’s not written on.
“I recall your posting history of... ...trashing everything in sight really quickly. I’d say that right now an e-bike probably isn’t for you.”
That’s my feeling too. With my Levo I’ve decided to let my LBS do almost all the work on it, though that’s just consisted of a fork and shock service and replacing the awful NX drivetrain once it wore out, on grounds that I’m even more time poor than money poor. I normally do work on my bikes bar suspension servicing, and I feel I have decent mechanical sympathy, I don’t break much stuff.
“I recall your posting history of… …trashing everything in sight really quickly. I’d say that right now an e-bike probably isn’t for you.”
Same. especially as you have indicated in other threads that you want to just put the motor in turbo and blast round at top speed for as long as the (biggest available) battery will take, every other day, in all conditions then it still to be bulletproof reliable. You'll (probably) be disappointed.
I own a 2018 Levo. I haven't seen it since before lockdown started as it away having the motor replaced for the second time. The first replacement took place over December and early January.
The first motor lasted 1400km. The second, 65km. In both cases the torque sensor seemed to fail as I get uncontrolled over-run. Never hacked, derestricted or pressure washed...
When it works it is fantastic. I am on the cusp of rejecting it and asking the supplying shop for proportional refund.
With regards to chains etc. I run 3 chains on rotation using putoline. I swap them every 100km. No wear issues yet. I could have been riding it every day in this recent dry spell...
That sounds shocking! They must have held onto your bike for 6+ weeks since the last motor failure ?!
If I'd spent that much on an EMTB I'd find it appalling if I couldn't use it for weeks on end due to waiting for warranty repairs!
Same. especially as you have indicated in other threads that you want to just put the motor in turbo and blast round at top speed for as long as the (biggest available) battery will take, every other day, in all conditions then it still to be bulletproof reliable. You’ll (probably) be disappointed.
Well if you're not blasting it round at top speed in turbo mode then what's the point in having an EBike, as from what I have seen, climbing in Eco mode really isn't much faster than riding a regular MTB! Even Trail mode wasn't massively quicker, not enough to justify all this expense and hassle anyway. Turbo was what made me want one, it's fun on another level.
I draw the line at de restriction as invalidating the warranty is not worth it given the unreliability of the motor.
The 15mph limit is only an issue on the flat anyway, just got to make the ride as hilly as possible then it doesn't matter. 25kph up huge hills is great then going down its fast as you want.
I just want to smash out 35 miles / 4500 feet of climbing in 3 hours before work and not feel ****ed at the end of it, not possible on a regular bike!
I work the no-life afternoon shift (typically start at 2 in the afternoon and finish when the day is over!) and regular biking is incompatible with it as I really don't want to go to work with aches, pains and feeling hungry all day.
But if it's a nice day then it drives me insane if I've not got out on the bike on a decent ride.
Also OP, no disrespect, but from your username I recall your posting history of not really working on your bikes yourself, being reliant on a (less-than-stellar) mechanic, and trashing everything in sight really quickly. I’d say that right now an e-bike probably isn’t for you.
This is why I've always held back from buying one. But time & time again I've had enough. The lockdown enforcing solo riding for the forseeable future and the increase in walkers on the trail is the final straw that's done it for me now.
I have made improvements over the years in terms of what I can do on the bike myself now, but the really complex or tool-heavy stuff I still can't do.
I can't wait to jump in with the E Biking. The funds are there. Unless the weather is perfect I'm bored of riding solo all the time. There are no bike park uplifts anywhere near me. The reasons are all there.
If the E breaks I'll still have my 2 regular bikes to ride while waiting for the repairs. Although it may feel slow and frustating going back to them!
I've waited year after year for the technology to get more reliable and held back from buying one but I've now got enough spare cash to buy 7 E Bikes never mind one so might as well get one and then maybe by the time the warranty runs out in 2 years time E Bikes might finally be reliable and then I'll get the bike I really want.
This video stating the costs of running an E Bike is likely to be £1000 a year... It costs me more than that to keep two regular bikes running!
Bike shop serviced 4 times a year, on just regular maintenance? Rubbish. They really don’t cost any more, per mile ridden, than a regular bike to run, save for the charging.
Well if you’re not blasting it round at top speed in turbo mode then what’s the point
Your car produces peak power just before the red line. What would happen to it if you spent most of your time driving it so high up in the Rev range?
It’s designed as an assist, so you can go further, more often. Not always at 10/10.
So what power mode should you use then when climbing massive hills ?
For example: A 1000 ft climb with an average gradient of 8%.
Turbo mode on that sort of thing is FUN.
Trail mode - Better than a regular Bike but not really enough to make such a climb that fun.
Eco mode - Just slightly quicker than a regular bike, would never buy an EBike if I had to run it in Eco mode up that sort of climb.
Turbo mode ALL DAY grannyjone.
Leather it round the trails like a Boss - lads mincing round in eco mode or on a clockwork bike (lol) are just stuck in the past. That's probably the reason their motors keep breaking - you wouldn't drive a car around at 10 mph all the time, would you? Bad for the engine.
The clue is in the name - Turbo Levo
I tend to alternate between eco and trail, and still bump into the speed limiter in trail. I’m not saying don’t use turbo, just don’t use it all the time. Have a little mechanical sympathy, and use your legs as well.
I’d be surprised if the Levo hasn’t been designed to be run on full turbo, max output, for a whole battery. It’s not exactly a lot of power, they’re only allowed to average 250W.
Apparently the Levo can empty the 500Whr battery in an hour on full power. That’s quite interesting because on my road commute I can do a whole week of turbo before it needs a charge, which equates to two hours of riding. So although I’m on turbo mode 100% of the time and usually pedalling hard when I’m pedalling, half the riding time I must be pedalling faster than the cut-off or coasting downhill.
I’ll take it the long way via the woods tomorrow and try to remember to use that app thing to get some more numbers about turbo mode for singletrack.
On road sitting on the speed limiter it doesn’t matter what mode it’s in, it will use the same amount of power regardless of mode.
Off road, or hilly terrain, the mode will make more of a difference.
If you do a lot of stop start riding, the mode will make a significant difference.
Sitting at 15mph on road doesn’t take much power.
I did a ride from work to home, turbo all the way, i flattened the first (400wh) battery in 14 (really hilly) miles. The remaining 17.5miles (which are virtually flat) i used less than half a battery.
I have also done the same route in eco mode, using only 60% of one battery, but i did walk up 1 mile of extremely steep hill.
Hills/acceleration are bad for battery life, flat riding considerably less so.
Edited to add: im really heavy, which also shortens battery life.
Apparently the Levo can empty the 500Whr battery in an hour on full power.
Surely it would need to average 500w output to do that?
Perhaps ... with an indy rebuild at £250 then secondhand actually might be an ok idea..?
Not looked but they must essentially be worthless out of warranty.
Assume many are sold on 0% credit; so is it 24 warrantied months @ £200pm, then throw it away and sign again?
“Surely it would need to average 500w output to do that?“
And to think I have an engineering degree!?!
Doesn’t add up does it? Unless the battery and motor efficiency drops massively under constant heavy load?
