I'm thinking of purchasing a Specialized Turbo Levo 700 watt hours - what is the Long term reliability of these bikes?
This could potentially be my first E Bike. I've demo'd one and thought it was really fun, the only concern is how reliable are they ? Particularly the electronic compontants such as the motor.
Ive had a 2017 Levo, 2018 Kenevo and currently have a 2020 Levo (all been expert models)
out of those 3 bikes, two have had replacement motors under warranty, these were bikes that were used all year round in all weathers and the motors never died but the bearings became rough so were replaced under warranty
Battery wise Ive never had any issues
Motor bearings can go due to poor cleaning technique, people use power washers on the motor which will kill the bearings and they are not serviceable, the motor wiring harness on the 2020 models can crack and cause a short circuit, Specialized have a revised version which fixes this issue, a good dealer will make sure that version is fitted before selling you the bike
With any e-bike a good dealer and warranty are key
The best dealers around are Chris Reilly @ Berkshire cycles and Richard Butters at Race Co Cycles
Ive always used Chris @ Berkshire Cycles (AKA the Levo King) not only does he give you around 1k off the RRP of a 2020 Expert, if you are unlucky to have any problems Chris does same day warranty repairs, just call him up or just pop in and he will get you back on the bike a.s.a.p he keeps stock of motors and batteries and if he has run out he will strip a display bike or drive to Specialized HQ to get one for you
Specialized's warranty is 2nd to none, they have been great when there has been any problems, they listen to riders and work with you to solve issues to get you riding again
If you are on FaceBook then join the Levo & Kenevo UK page
I'm thinking of buying from Leisure Lakes in Bury as they are closest dealers of E Bikes to me and I think buying as close to home as possible is essential for warranty issues
What sort of mileages have these bikes been doing between motor replacements ??
Once the 2 year warranty on the motor is up how much would it cost to fix these myself ? Or is it often a case of just sell the Bike once it's warranty is up ?
Is overall maintenance time & costs a huge step up from a regular Full Suspension MTB or just slight ?
have a mooch on here
A couple of things to consider and you'll be fine:
1) Buy from a local Specialized dealer if you can, rather than a big online store or chain. The warranty support from the big 'S' is excellent, but it'll happen quicker from a dedicated dealer with the training/tools/software etc than one of the big chains who are juggling lots of brands.
2) Treat the motor and control unit in the same way you would other components that need care on a bike, mainly avoiding jet washing / power hosing those areas of the bike, the same as you would for hubs, bearings, suspension seals etc. They're well sealed but will suffer from jet washing. A small rear mudhugger type guard is also a wise purchase for a Levo/Kenevo as it keeps the motor area clean.
3) Go ride and enjoy, they're brilliant bikes and the Mission Control App allows you to fine tune the motor to give you anything from the full shuttle experience, right down to a near normal bike feel, and anything in between with the press of a button.
Once the 2 year warranty on the motor is up how much would it cost to fix these myself ? Or is it often a case of just sell the Bike once it’s warranty is up ?
Motors are £750, (504wh) batteries are £700. I got both for half that, going through the concept store I bought the bike from. They both come with a 2 year warranty. I think you can get the motor repaired by an independent for about £250, not sure what warranty is offered on that though.
What sort of mileages have these bikes been doing between motor replacements ??
First one went after 2000 miles, second after 800. Battery (well, the power switch) went after 3000.
If engine failure is a worry.
From memory Bosch have a rolling warranty, so if you need a new motor you get another 2 years from when it is fitted, whereas Shimano and Specialized are fixed.
P.
i have a carbon turbo levo.
done around 2000kms on it. never had one single issue with it, ridden in all weathers
highly reccommend Race co cycles .
Speak to Rich for a good deal
Double check for the newer ones, but my Specialized was a rolling warranty.
I bought a Levo Expert in 2016 and have had £11,000 worth of warranty replacements including six motors! Only Spesh would shell out that sort of cash.
I've a 2019 Levo (2020 is the same except components), i've had the power harness issue, but that was my own fault for checking the case for mud ingress (there was very little) & disturbing what had been a working cable. This week I've had a motor failure at 1100 miles, it back with Race Co (again buy from a LBS), as it would still turn on but give no power support. I suspect it's a motor belt that snapped, so I don't know if they'll replace the motor or just the belt (Race Co are open, but operating 'behind closed doors' operation).
Previously I had a shimano motor ebike that was broken out of the box, and when returned to the mail order place, the manufacturer and shimano were so unhelpful, the mail order shop gave me another (shimano motor) brand bike. I had 18months of fun on that, with minor blips when the battery mounting became loose but my initial experience (8-10 weeks of warranty waiting) means I'm more than happy to spend that bit more on a bike from a good LBS (have I mentioned Race Co being very good?) over any internet deal. Then you hear of nitemare stories of the likes of YT, who don't believe Shimano UK are trust worthy enough to supply their software codes, so will need the complete bike returned to Germany to be fixed.
I personally know 6 people with 19/20 Levo's and another 2 with '20 Kenevo's, none of them are complaining about issues or would prefer another bike. I wish the Levo SL was cheaper, as I find them very interesting.
PS: I would also note that Specializeds warranty extends the 2nd owners.
PPS: That 700wh battery is a god send, having experienced the e-bike specific issue of "range anxiety"
Have a 2018 Levo, which has done roughly 4000km. Ridden in all weathers and definitely not mollycoddled, not washed more than a dozen times in that. Had an LED stuck on red in the battery pack, replaced immediately. No motor issues yet, bearings still feel OK but expecting to get them refurbished in a few years. I also like the SL, but won't be upgrading until I can do frame only and to something that's sensibly priced and about 17kg.
IME, have broken more bits than I would normally. I think this is logical, given the extra weight and power.
Agree 100% on using an LBS - and it being a decent one with good knowledge of e-bikes. These things are more complex, so there's a better chance you'll need support. As posted above , there are a few real specialists (excuse the pun). If you can, use someone with a good reputation.
Other than eating through chains and cassettes due to too much turbo commuting on it, I’ve yet to have any problems with my Levo. 1700 miles since Dec 2018.
join the Facebook page and ask about Leisure lakes for e bike warranty repair, they maybe good but they may not be, quite few people have complained of shops that have had bikes for weeks trying to solve issues, Leisure lakes could be one of the good ones but best to check before you buy
Even Specialized concept stores have been known to be useless, just because they are a main dealer dosen't mean they have any interest in e bikes as others on the Facebook page have found out
I cant recommend Chris@Berkrshire Cycles enough, he has customers who drive 3-4 hours to him for warranty work as their local dealers are just rubbish, join the Facebook page and ask about him, you will hear nothing but praise
Now for warranty on motors etc...this info is direct from Specailzed's main guys who i met at their e bike open day at the UK HQ
If you have a new motor replaced under warranty then that new motor only has warranty until the bike's warranty runs out, so if your bike is 18 months old and the motor is replaced under warranty then that new motor has 6 months warranty left
Now there are some exceptions, the following is done on a case by case basis
So if your motor dies say within 3-4 months of the bikes warranty expiring and you have a new one under warranty then that one dies one or two months after the bike's warranty expires then Specialized at their discretion can decide to replace it for free
Now once your bike is out of warranty and the motor dies, Specialized will still help with a replacement motor
They have an assisted replacement program where they will sell you a new motor etc.. at a discount, the older the bike the less the discount, more info in the link below
Again this is all direct from the guys at Specialized at the e-mtb open day back in February
There is also a company called Performance bearings who are doing motor repairs for out of warranty motors, a basic strip down and bearing replacement starts at £250 if i remember correctly
Thanks for the info.
Doesn't sound like those mileages between failures are huge to say the least.
I already do 4000 miles a year on regular MTB.
I think on E Bike I will possibly do more than that, though I still plan to ride my regular MTB's when riding with my mates as none of them have E Bikes so won't stand a chance at keeping up.
This keeps the E Bike for solo rides only.
I think Leisure Lakes are a specialized dealer and I know someone who has had warranty issues with his Stumpjumper and it sounds like they've been good at sorting stuff out for him, he's even had the frame replaced.
They are the closest one to me, and there is plenty of good riding in the surrounding area so can often get a good ride in while visiting the store.
There's no way I'd like to start driving 3-4 hours to get to places for electronic repairs no matter how good they are. I'd rather stick with the regular MTB's than have to start doing that.
I've also heard about how they eat through chains, cassettes & chain rings quicker than regular bike, but by how much ?
Are the E Bike specific chains more expensive as well ?
Definetely want a 700 watt hour E Bike as I've demo'd a 500 watt hour Kenevo in March and the range anxiety was huge, battery was "in the red" at 20 miles every ride, in crap conditions though (muddy and windy) & over 3500 ft of climbing
When the motors fail do they tend to do it mid ride ? The thought of being stuck with a really heavy bike with a difficult journey back to the car or house is worrying
😳 at the warranty lifestyle of owning an ebike. Blimey.
Certainly puts me off ever owning one, and you'd have to be mad to buy a second hand one seemingly.
My mate has a Focus and has recently had a fair few problems. He bought that from Leisure Lakes and they have been nothing but excellent op.
When the motors fail do they tend to do it mid ride
The law of Sod ensures they do, same as regular bikes. Had a spate of it recently with my mate on his Focus.. Each time, the breakdown was of course the furthest from the start that we were going... Pedalling them back without power isn't ideal, but it's still just a bike, it's fine.
Every single Levo and Kenevo owner I know personally has had at least one replacement motor each and none of them have covered mega miles. Yes, the Spesh warranty is excellent but it’s time limited, not rolling, and is only as good as the dealer you use.
The pre-2019 Levo and pre-2020 Kenevo were more reliable than the later bikes but still not infallible.
One of the Brose motors strong points is the belt drive which is why it’s so quiet but it’s also a major cause of failure with snapped belts.
The TCU (power switch on the top tube) seems very susceptible to water ingress. Sometimes they can be dried out, sometimes not. Spesh have hinted at a replacement that’s got better environmental seals but I don’t think it’s in use yet.
The SL is a different kettle of fish without a single motor failure so far as I am aware.
I’ve also heard about how they eat through chains, cassettes & chain rings quicker than regular bike, but by how much ?
Simply not true in my experience, cassettes and chainrings are damaged by leaving worn chains on too long before replacing them, and through not cleaning them properly after rides, regardless of the type of bike.
No need for e-bike specific or expensive chains on e-mtbs, weight is not an issue for most riders so the cheapest Sram/Shimano chains are fine.
I still havent bought an ebike - lost my job last month, but these tales of unreliability are not good. especially using bearings that are not user replaceable but are exposed to the elements on a mountain bike. Everyone knows that all bearings on a mountain bike need regular replacement, what are the manufacturers thinking?
If I were buying one today, I'd probably be going for a commencal meta power sx, it uses standard shimano motor and battery , so hopefully can just be warrantied by any shimano dealer rather than having to go back to commencal
quite fancy one of these but wow. maybe not
Wow! Was considering one for next year, if I still have a job.
I'll have a look again in a couple of years if things improve reliability-wise...
Definetely want a 700 watt hour E Bike as I’ve demo’d a 500 watt hour Kenevo in March and the range anxiety was huge, battery was “in the red” at 20 miles every ride, in crap conditions though (muddy and windy) & over 3500 ft of climbing
Is 700 Wh really enough, though, grannyjone? It sounds an incremental advance on weeny 500 tbh. The bikes look great so understandable if you want to jump in, but something to be said for waiting till the man-size motor is released - 1000 Wh.
“Definetely want a 700 watt hour E Bike as I’ve demo’d a 500 watt hour Kenevo in March and the range anxiety was huge”
Everyone with range anxiety needs to go out for a ride on their ebike with it switched off, zero assistance. It’s absolutely fine on the Levo. Put it this way, do you have any riding mates that weigh 1.5 stone more than you? Do they manage to ride up hills?
Or to put it another way, if you weigh 170lbs and your normal MTB weighs 30lbs then the total system weight is 200lbs. If your ebike weighs 50lbs then the total system weight is 220lbs. So it go uphill at the same speed on an ebike with the motor off requires 10% more power.
Or to keep the pedalling force the same, you need to shift down a gear vs a normal MTB and then either pedal faster or accept you’ll go about 10% slower.
It’s not a big deal.
I think with all e bikes and not just Specialized there is just more to go wrong compared to a normal bike.
I've been riding a Giant E Reign for the last three months and fair to say that it seems to eat through chains and cassettes faster than my regular bike on the same trails for a similar mileage. My non scientific experience leads me to think that I am generally riding a bit aster and powering up stuff where normally I would finesse and ride an easier gear.
As for the OP's question, my entirely unrepresentative experience of Specialized E bikes is restricted to my mate and his missus who had quite a few problems with both their models and ended up getting a refund on both. I have no doubt that other manufacturers will experience similar issues and what counts is how they deal with the issues. It sounds like Specialized stand by their products based on this thread.
Cheers!
I was out on the demo Kenevo in March when the battery ran out and it was horrible trying to ride it back to the car.
It's not just the weight I believe trying to pedal through the motor is the main reason its so much harder than a regular bike.
Specialized motors don’t add any drag when they aren’t on.
chiefgrooveguru
I like your theory but in my experience, some e bikes without the motor on are noticeably harder to pedal on anything other than the flat or downhill. The Giant I have just tested was not a fan of climbing without the motor!
Well it sounds like the motor reliability is a nightmare, I really can't wait to jump in with this E Biking but comments about motors failing on such low mileage and prone to breaking down due to water are worrying (no good in north west England sometimes you can get rain for 6 months in a row). I also find it rediculous if the 2019/2020 models have gone more unreliable than the previous ones.
Is 700 Wh really enough, though, grannyjone? It sounds an incremental advance on weeny 500 tbh. The bikes look great so understandable if you want to jump in, but something to be said for waiting till the man-size motor is released – 1000 Wh.
Even 700 Wh is a bit on the light side but should be good for 30-35 miles and 5000-6000 ft of climbing (depending on conditions) which is definetely enough to have a really good ride, probably about 3 hours of fun.
Unlike 500 Wh where it ran out at 20 miles in crap conditions it was barely worth driving an hour to get to some places to ride it, more time spent in the car than on the bike!
OP, if you are in north west England, consider North West Mountain Bikes based in Cheadle by M60 roundabout.
They stock Specialized eBikes.
I've not used them for eBikes but for everything else they are brilliant and really do go above & beyond - exactly what you use a LBS for.
On the flip side, we bought my other half a used (out of warranty) Levo a couple of years ago and it's been fine. Granted, it doesn't get ridden through the winter in horrific conditions but she's had no problems with it.
The motors aren't some impenetrable wizardry - they use belts, gears and bearings - and are assembled by normal humans. If they can be built by people, they can be repaired. Batteries can be taken apart and repacked if absolutely necessary. Depending on how technically-minded you are, of course, YMMV..
I bought a Levo Expert in 2016 and have had £11,000 worth of warranty replacements including six motors! Only Spesh would shell out that sort of cash.
That's incredible I'd definetely not consider second hand then!!
It sounds like the warranty is going to be worth more than the bike itself if I end up purchasing this Turbo Levo!
Maybe I'll ride it for 2 years then sell it when the warranty runs out, then hopefully by then the techology would have advanced enough to make reliable E Mountain Bikes.
OP, if you are in north west England, consider North West Mountain Bikes based in Cheadle by M60 roundabout.
They stock Specialized eBikes.
Thanks for the suggestion but I really think Leisure Lakes Bury is really the one for me to go for.
It's the closer to home than Cheadle and a visit to the shop can be combined with some great riding in the local area (if the bike is in working order!)
On the flip side, we bought my other half a used (out of warranty) Levo a couple of years ago and it’s been fine. Granted, it doesn’t get ridden through the winter in horrific conditions but she’s had no problems with it.
Unfortunately, Winter riding will be a big part of my riding if I got an E Bike.
I'm really bored in the Winter and going to Spain is unlikely to be an option next Winter.
Riding a regular bike is slow and hard in the mud and wind but you can still have a good blast on an E Bike. They just power through it as if it isn't there.
My riding mates don't come out much in Winter as well so trying to face it solo is always hard on a regular bike.
The previous Winter was especially horrendous though, couldn't have been any worse for MTB really, hopefully the next few won't be as bad!
The motors aren’t some impenetrable wizardry – they use belts, gears and bearings – and are assembled by normal humans. If they can be built by people, they can be repaired. Batteries can be taken apart and repacked if absolutely necessary. Depending on how technically-minded you are, of course, YMMV..
I'm not technically minded at all
I've got more than enough spare cash to buy a Turbo Levo and even if I just sell it after 2 years the money maybe worth it for 2 years of fun especially seeing as the money is not likely to be going on holidays any time soon.
In 2 years time maybe E Bikes will be reliable and 1000 watt hours the norm
The motor belt is certainly the weak point. Unfortunately while a standard size (405mm x 15mm pitch 5mm) it is made with carbon fibre reinforcement by Gates and not available off the shelf. A 'normal' HTD fibre glass belt only lasts a week as I found out.
weight is not an issue for most riders so the cheapest Sram/Shimano chains are fine.
E-Bike chains are longer so a regular chain may well be too short .
Surely a chain is not going to last as long on the E Bike just because there is so much more power and torque being put through it ?
Turbo mode in particular increases power output by 4X I believe ? I've read that it does and it certainly felt like it when riding up Jacobs Ladder and Chapel Gate!
“I like your theory but in my experience, some e bikes without the motor on are noticeably harder to pedal on anything other than the flat or downhill. The Giant I have just tested was not a fan of climbing without the motor!“
That feels like such half-hearted design - what a waste of energy if you can feel motor drag resisting your pedalling.
The main difference I noticed pedalling my unassisted Levo vs my Spitfire was that the suspension bobs more. On flatter trails the bigger wheels’ rolling ability compensates for the extra weight, when it gets steeper it’s a bit harder work - and the relative lack of anti-squat more obvious especially when I stand up to pedal.
The difference was small enough that I sold the Spitfire as I couldn’t see it getting used much - I now have the Levo as my full-sus, plus a 150mm hardtail as my other bike.
Geeky aside - one of the major issues with designing a full-sus ebike is that chain tension and motive force at the contact patch work together to minimise suspension bob - this is called anti-squat. Suspension bob is mostly caused by the rhythmic application of power when pedalling which causes the rider mass to act like an inverted pendulum.
You can design MTB suspension to cancel that out and it works very wel, that’s why so many full-sus bikes go uphill well nowadays. But the motor adds constant power when you’re pedalling, it doesn’t happen in pulses like with your legs, so once it’s kicked in it causes no extra bobbing. But the extra chain tension and motive force causes more anti-squat, which stiffens up or even jacks up the suspension.
Therefore there’s a challenging compromise in how much anti-squat designed in, because ideal anti-squat with max motor power will be far less than ideal anti-squat with zero assistance. Fortunately the rear suspension works a lot better on an ebike than a normal bike because of the sprung:unsprung weight ratio being far better, so it doesn’t seem to result in traction problems on the Levo, just more than ideal bob with the power off.
“E-Bike chains are longer so a regular chain may well be too short.”
Only if the chainstays are particularly long - on bigger non-e bikes chainstays lengths are getting longer nowadays anyway.
I’ve yet to manage to change a chain soon enough to keep the cassette happy - I pedal pretty hard on a short commute turboing up fairly steep hills, and I think there’s just too much torque for the sprockets to not get worn, however fresh the chain. I buy cheaper cassettes and run the chain and cassette into the ground.
E-Bike chains are longer so a regular chain may well be too short .
E-MTBs come spec’d with standard MTB chains, the e-bike specific ones are just an expensive aftermarket gimmick.
We all make our choices though and that’s fine as it keeps the industry alive.
As far as chains wearing out faster, I think that probably is the case due to the extra torque, but that has doesn’t affect cassettes or chainrings if the chain is regularly measured and replaced at 0.5mm ...as it is wise to do on any bike, chains are much cheaper to replace than cassettes. I use the cheap Sram ones and replace at 0.5mm, they can be had for £7.95 online if you shop around.
...I am also pretty OCD about maintaining my bikes 😳
If I were buying one today, I’d probably be going for a commencal meta power sx, it uses standard shimano motor and battery , so hopefully can just be warrantied by any shimano dealer rather than having to go back to commencal
We had one of these in the workshop today. Commencal had just left the wheel diameter at the default 3000mm so the bike only does 11mph.
We had one of these in the workshop today. Commencal had just left the wheel diameter at the default 3000mm so the bike only does 11mph.
interesting! Can the end user change the wheel diameter to the correct value using an app of some sort, or is it only dealers that have access to do that? I presume only dealers, otherwise everyone would be programming them so that they cut out at 30mph.
interesting! Can the end user change the wheel diameter to the correct value using an app of some sort, or is it only dealers that have access to do that? I presume only dealers, otherwise everyone would be programming them so that they cut out at 30mph.
Only distributor or manufacturer apparently. Despite being a shimano service centre we can't do anything.
"if the chain is regularly measured and replaced at 0.5mm"
What chain checker do you use? Mine seems less accurate than a metal rule, and I can't measure that precisely to judge half a millimetre. Did you actually mean 0.5mm?
