Just came to replace the horst link bearings in my 2013 carbon stumpy, if youve ever done the recent specialized FSR frame ones you'll know that they are the PIA double blind bearing setup. One side the 2 x bearings just basically fell out and I can pop two new ones in with my fingers, the bore is not damaged or enlarged as I can see all the original finish with no wear etc. And the other side...Well lets just say, I spent two days trying and failing to get them to budge at all, so tight they are, I broke one blind bearing extractor, tried with heat, tried with a threaded puller and they are just solid. AS it happens that side were in decent nick so I just repacked them with grease and that'll have to do. Sorry rant over but really a major bike manufacturer who cant do basic machining to any sort of acceptable tolerance !
In terms of the slack side, I have some loctite 641 bearing compound, do you reckon that would be useful ? (as it happens I got some of the 641 on the recommendation of specialized because they couldn't correctly machine a Press Fit BB shell, and they advised me to use that to stop the cups spinning !)
Well that doesnt surprise me in the least... seen some interesting returns when i worked selling spec bikes... But I am sure other big brands suffer the same and have seen some boutique stuff also poorly made...
paul
While the buck does stop with Specialized, it's really an inspection/quality control issue at whoever manufactures the components.
And presumably they buy in a complete bike, rather than have them built 'at Speciallized' as such? So, they won't have had a Specialized builder putting the bearing in or running a CMM over the entire frame to check it was to spec.
Not that it helps you, the end user. You just want a bike that works and can be worked on! If it's really bad, perhaps get it to back to the dealer and ask them how it should be dealt with. Covering the problem by repacking the current bearing with grease and soldiering on will only work for so long and if you leave it another year or so, it will be harder to argue your position.
Funnily enough, last time I was in my LBS I overheard the manager moaning about direct sales (Canyon etc) and 'chinese' frames as he was saying it means that all the big brands are having to cut costs and cheapen things down to stay competitive. He was saying that the quality of the larger brands has taken a nose dive in the last couple of years as they are having to reduce costs.
Dunno how much of this is true or whether it's sour grapes as a result of direct sales/internet hurting his business?
Perhaps as a result of this, QC/inspection takes a bit of a hit at brands like Specialized?
If it really can't be removed then it is a warranty issue. If their guys can remove and replace it then its a spannering issue.
given the issues you are having, surely you should take it back to the dealer it came from and get them to sort to your satisfaction ?
The trouble is their guys can go mental with the puller/lump hammer on the bearings happy in the knowledge that if anything breaks someone from warranty department next door will send a new one out, home and LBS mechanics don't really have that option do they?If their guys can remove and replace it then its a spannering issue.
just saying if they use some serious wellie to change the bearings what happens next time they need changing when the warranty may have run out?
I gave up after a while.
I should be able to get them out at the next time of asking. I've had to resort to a more Heath Robinson method of extraction before, (normally separating inner and outer race, leaving outer race stuck in place and very carefully nicking the race with a dremmel enough until it breaks with a knock from behind. It didn't justify it this time as the bearings were in good nick, I was simply just surprised that the machining was so clearly different on two different sides of the same piece, that's scary poor manufacturing.
I have a small engineering/manufacturing workshop with access to equipment with some pretty skilled people so there will always be a way for me to get stuff in and out, but this is simply the worst bit of bike engineering I have seen for a while. I am surprised that despite cost cutting and far eastern manufacturing that this sort of lack of basic manufacturing quality slips through and hits the shops.
I Don't now if anyone elses experience has been the same but some of the best engineering quality I have experienced was with the 2 Canyon bikes I have built up in the last couple of years. Knowing that if it was interference fit then it would be consistent across all press fits on the frame. BB shells / frame pivot points etc etc. If all Specialized were tight or loose on tolerance but it was consistent then that's understandable, but to have huge difference across one bike is just poor and smacks of cheap chinese manufacturing. Which its not, its actually Chinese manufacturing sold at a premium price.
my 2013 [b]carbon [/b]stumpy
tried with [b]heat[/b]
erm...is that wise, or are the stays alu?
I’ve never rated Specalised FS frames as being easy to work on for the home mechanic, I’m lucky as I have a whole workshop full of Facom & SKF bearing extraction and fitting tools. But as the OP found out even with the right kit it’s not a given.
I don’t know if they have improved in the last few years but they also used some tiny bearings that I suspect had more to do with keeping the headline weight down rather than any longevity in the bearings.
erm...is that wise, or are the stays alu?
Yep Carbon front triangle, ally rear triangle, hot air welding gun as opposed to blow torch or anything brutal. Only marginally hotter than a hairdryer. But despite this those bearings were going nowhere !
but they also used some tiny bearings
Most of the bearings are 6802's 21x12x5. I have a bag of quality NSK Japanese ones here, sourced through my work.
Seen this on many 'brands'.
Specialized not a manufacturer but a design / marketing company.
Some bearing sockets good, some bad, on same frame, or different frames, or different brands/models.
Some bad setups require specific tools and skills, some brute force, some a bit of luck, some a new frame component...
I thought Spesh bikes were builtin their own factories, hence why they own 50% (or are owned 50% by, cant remember which) Merrida who are 2nd only to Giant in bike production?Specialized not a manufacturer but a design / marketing company.
I'm gessing that maybe both sides are machined with one long tool going through both sides to make sure they're perfectly aligned, in wich case you'd maybe expect the end of the tool to wear first as it has to machine out both sides, whereas further up the shaft only ever sees one side. So maybe your fame was just towards the end of that tools life and the two faces are within the tolerance but one will always be slighlty over and the other slightly under?
Remember this story when people moan about the prices bike shops charge to change the bearings in the back end of full suspension bikes and say how easy it is etc .
Sorry rant over but really a major bike manufacturer who cant do basic machining to any sort of acceptable tolerance !
Apart from the fact that they can of course, and (from what we know so far) there's 1 bad one out of the many in circulation.
thisisnotaspoon, it's not a tool wear issue for the hole that's too big
I totally agree that they do have the equipment and skill to machine stuff right, I think what the OP is getting at its that at some point despite it being perhaps 1 in 100 that it shouldnt leave the factory, somebody must pop the bearings in and didnt spot or didnt care that one side was oversized. Its still probably a 4k bicycle so rubbish Qc shouldnt be acceptable
We check every single bore that comes off the cnc machine with a bore MIC for our bikes made in the UK right here in sheff.
Its not rocket science or expensive but folks don't wanna hear about Qc they want their stuff for x amount and theres always someone that will provide a service.
So what is stopping you from pressing out the bearings? Is it the step in the middle of the bore that prevents the easy removal of pressing them out, but instead you have to pull each of them out?
Specialized are partly owned by Merida, but Sbc do not own any factories. Merida in turn source the bulk of their aluminium alloy tube sets from Giant!
SBC is a design/marketing company, the only on-site fab in usa, are limited numbers of prototype 'mules' often made from cromoly steel or aluminium alloy to test new design concepts.
thisisnotaspoon, it's not a tool wear issue for the hole that's too big
It would be if the tool was sized to be a smidgen oversize when new, and replaced when it was a smidgen undersized, and the tip was doing twice as much work as the rest of the shaft.
Thinking the tool would look something like this.
We seem to have settled on this definitely being a manufacturing issue; is that a given? Corrosion could have swelled the aluminium around hte stuck bearing, and so far nobody else has had a crack at removing it. The loose one could conceivably have slackened in use due to a seized bearing or similiar. Though I don't think that's likely personally
Posted 1 year agoesher shore - MemberI work at a Specialized dealer and we don't have either the FSR tool kit or any bearing pullers (and the management refuse to buy them..)
shame the amount of customers with FSR bikes I've had to turn away, its just not worth risking damage to customer bikes using "traditional" methods (i.e. flat blade, hammer, socket set, lumps of wood)
thisisnotaspoon, when downthemiddle said they were double blind bearings, I assumed the two bearings were pressed in one from each side with a smaller diameter step in the middle of the hole to stop them going too far in.
This is why they need pulling out, not just knocking right through, and why the holes can't be bored all in one go from one side.
Am I right?
I assumed the two bearings were pressed in one from each side with a smaller diameter step in the middle of the hole to stop them going too far in.
That is exactly the setup Graham, press fit bearing each side step in the middle with a spacer taking up the internal gap between. So when you look down it is uninterrupted. Yes a machine tool would have to do 4 individual processes due to the step.