Is it me or are we in severe need of a decent, for want of a better phrase, "trail centre" here in the South-East? What with places like the North Downs becoming increasingly contentious, I find myself having to look further afield to find riding of a high quality i.e. Wales, Peak District, Scotland, Canada 
etc.
Why?
I can do a 50 mile off road ride from my house, with a mile or so of road, loads of great, fast, singletrack, reasonable amounts of climbing and generally not many people!
If you want big rocky riding, go to the places you mentioned, how's calling something a trail centre and putting up some signs going to chance the geology of the South East!?
Needs hills innit....
not sure if this was tongue in cheek....
Get up earlier in the morning..
Don't stop at Leith Hill tower or Peaslake, most parts aren't that busy!
I don't think hills are the real issue frankly, admittedly there's nowt that big, but you can do a fair bit of climbing just from constantly going up and down!
It was partially tongue-in-cheek, based on the frustration of not having any decent riding within an hours drive of where I live.
Where do you live?
I guess it does depend what you're after, I'm constantly bemused by the folk riding around Peaslake on 6"+ travel bikes with full face lids and body armour.
riding around Peaslake on 6"+ travel bikes with full face lids and body armour.
aggressive xc is a dangerous sport you know?
I'm not the best rider in the in the world or even my road for that matter but passing someone riding down Pitch in full stormtrooper garb whilst trying to get the dog to run behind me and talking to a mate was quite funny.
There is a lot of expensive gear up there for sure.
I ride around Peaslake on a 6" bike too, but don't use a full-face. It depends on what trails you ride and how fast you ride them. There is plenty there to have fun with a 6" bike on.
I live in East Grinstead which is generally a mtb wasteland, apart from Deers Leap park, which is ok for pure xc.
I suppose swinley forest is a kind of trail centre in the south east.
However even with tracks being surfaced they seem to wear very quickly, possibly due to the shear number of riders and the fact there is no official organization to look after them. Although obviously thanks very much to the volunteers from BOB and Gorrick.
Obviously a trail centre in either the north downs/chilterns would be great as it would attract riders when the conditions are very bad meaning the trails in these areas might survive a bit better over winter.
The obvious answer to whether the SE NEEDS a trail centre is no. Where as I would imagine do some people WANT a trail centre is yes.
Plus theres not really an incentive. Most the countryside in the SE is already well used or hoarded by rich people. And its not like the government/forestry commission want to encourage the economy in this area. They want you to drive to wales on the weekend and spend your money there.
apart from Deers Leap park, which is ok for pure xc.
Unless someone's sneezed on it in the past month, when it's a write off. Far too many horrifically muddy XC races there to even consider going there to ride!
Instead of going somewhere more technical, ride the same trails on a 4" bike, I reckon that's about ideal for most Surrey Hills riding.
All this talk of trail centres is a prickly pear.
Think of it this way - The south east is dead busy possibly busier than other parts of the country due to sheer weight of numbers. We already have issues with land access and so on due to the negative press we get running over dogs etc. I can forsee a time not to distant when we will only be allowed to ride in trail centres because of stuff like this.
Having guys in full stormtrooper gear tanking down the footpaths will only make things worse faster. If you cant see someones face they are just more intimidating and I have heard people telling local walkers and so on to **** off etc like they are in the right. .
I'll most likely give up riding if I can't ride natural (ish trails). To put my money where my mouth is my 7 inch bike is set up for 4 inch travel makes life plenty interesting.
At last a sensible point of view. I thought of Swinley just after I wrote the OP and it is probably the nearest thing we have, even though it is a 100mile round trip for me.
The problem with the Peaslake area is that the trails are generally unsustainable, with the exception of the new ending to BKB, obviously, and I can see a time when they will just say no to mountain biking there, except for on the fire roads.
Plus theres not really an incentive. Most the countryside in the SE is already well used or hoarded by rich people. And its not like the government/forestry commission want to encourage the economy in this area. They want you to drive to wales on the weekend and spend your money there.
That is the problem we have here in EG, including the Ashdown Forest being out of bounds.
Bedgebury is ok. And not far from Deers Leap park.
Bedgebury is in the South East. I can manage to find a few places to ride on the Kentish North Downs and other areas of the SE.
[i]Obviously a trail centre in either the north downs/chilterns would be great [/i]
**** right off with that idea.... 😀 I like the Chilterns just as they are thanks. and TBH they're getting busier every year anyway, I reckon bike traffic round some of the more popular routes is the heaviest user group. Very very few trails that don't have tyre marks on them now, whereas even just 3 years ago, there were parts I ride that were virtually unknown
One of my pet hates is people going round the big mud patches and puddles and widening the track. It's a clear and easy problem for the walkers and so on to highlight how MTB damages the land.
Mountain biking in winter gets you muddy, ride through the mud you bloody poofs or stay at home.
(poofs as in poofs, not gays which is a different thing altogether)
Think of it this way - The south east is dead busy possibly busier than other parts of the country due to sheer weight of numbers. We already have issues with land access and so on due to the negative press we get running over dogs
Surely that makes a trail centre make even more sense.
Instead of going somewhere more technical, ride the same trails on a 4" bike, I reckon that's about ideal for most Surrey Hills riding.
I've ridden those trails on a hardtail with 80mm forks, a 4 inch bike, a 5 inch bike, and a 6 inch bike and the latter is by far and away the most fun IMO.
The problem with bedgebury is its in Kent, Londons in the way.
Traveled round most parts of England and Wales but frankly Kent could be a foreign country to me cant say I've ever been there.
The problem with trail centres and 'approved routes' is that it sets the expectation that they are the *only* place that it's acceptable to ride a bike on.
the likes of Friston Forest etc are probably as close as I'd feel comfortable to 'trail centres' around my area.
Surely that makes a trail centre make even more sense.
Good god no.
Don't run over dogs and be more considerate FFS.
Not all of us want to ride trail centres. That's like golf as far as I'm concerned and as for play areas at trail centres - Crazy golf.
I like trail centres but I like the countryside more.
i can think of loads of places to ride around that area.
Oh? Do tell
there's nice jumpy runs to be found all round there
pirbright,
tonbridgewells
etc.....
Maybe improve existing trails to make them more sustainable, e.g. Swinley and QECP.
Dafydd Davis was brought in to look at Surrey Hills and said the natural character would be taken away if trails were 'trail centred'.
Plus the land has been made available by the owners to all users for 'exercise and fresh air' so you can't trail centre it, which would exclude walkers and horse riders.
The problem is over-use and use in the wrong conditions.
It's a long process of education.
Sadly I don't see how you can enforce 'don't ride when it's been raining' or 'don't ride round the puddles', 'be courteous to the walkers' when it's open access land.
As part of the biking community we can, however:
a) stay away from the erodable trails when it's been raining, or like right now after the snow
b) stop riding around the puddles
c) help with the dig days. I've been on a few and it's about 4-8 people each time, a tiny % of the number of people at Peaslake on your average Sunday
d) tell everyone you know who rides to do the above
I'm worried we're going to overstay our welcome tbh. Sooner or later the locals will have enough. Look at the state BKB got into before it was re-routed, and the lack of agreement on here that it was a bad thing....
I totally agree with everything you said there brooess. I do try and stay away when it's really wet.
I've not been up there properly in months, it's just not that much fun totally aside from the trashing the trails thing!
BKB seems a pretty sturdy trail erosion wise but the ending was getting badly churned by all the back brake skiers! I was a bit sore that the new ending was less tech but if you tank down it it's a great laugh so thumbs up from me. Bigger problems are the trails that cross the fireroads as in summer I've seen some near misses that could have been nasty and caused very apparent ill feeling.
Most problems can be avoided if people just slow down when they see other users who are not on bikes.
QE Park toward Portsmouth on the A3 has marked trails IIRC and there is Aston Hill too in Wendover. Two short XC loops at Friston, Eastbourne way.
6" on the Surrey Hills? Blimey - recently I've been riding Holmbury/ Leith/ Pitch on my cx bike with 32mm tyres.
Yes I did that a couple of times, good laugh! I still think a 4" race bike is pretty well perfect around there, the fastest certainly, the trails are all too pedally for more IMO.
Still, everyone's likely to think their own bike's the best!
Yeah but aP you're special....
Aston Hill is a trail centre really?
As for building something like the ones in Wales well the investment there is justifiable based on the amount of money that's attracted into poorer areas; the Surrey Hills aren't so poor....
I've ridden in them there hills on a CX too, but most of the trails more on my SS'd PA. I thinks it's funny that people ride the twisty stuff on a 6" bike, however I've been riding with some new people and there are some big gaps, jumps and drops to be found which I'd only do on my big bike with a full face.
6" on the Surrey Hills? Blimey - recently I've been riding Holmbury/ Leith/ Pitch on my cx bike with 32mm tyres.
what trails you were riding?
I thinks it's funny that people ride the twisty stuff on a 6" bike
And what if it's the only bike they own?
Why do the Swinley trails need to be made "more sustainable"? I would be so bored if everyhwere I ride was all this smoothed out gritty rubbish that adorns trail centres, Afan was very underwhelming. Whats wrong with riding in mud as long as its not too sticky? Really agree with the 6" bike thing, they are just not needed most of the time unless you are in the Alps.
I don't work in IT - but some include blabla Redlands, BKB, Reservoir Dogs, Plan A, Plan B, 1.0, 2.0, Graveyard shift, quarry into Pitch car park, stuff off the back of Pitch and Winterfold, Secret Squirrel, etc.
Nothing terribly challenging really, admittedly I don't do jumps so that might count against me somewhat.
Riding out from Chiswick does make it a bit of a long day though.
Fair point. Still not sure they're the most sensible choice if most of the bike's life is spent on SE XC trails.And what if it's the only bike they own?
what trails you were riding?
most of them are do-able on a cross bike including deliverance and the old ending to BKB. Not hugely fun IMO though
i love the 6" travel is not needed unless in the alps thing. pmsl.
ride whatcha brung
[i]Aston Hill is a trail centre really?[/i]
Aston Hill was probably the UK's first trail centre.
While most see it as DH, its always had an XC loop - and the ability to link the various DH routes with the XC loop.
There is a cafe less than a miles' ride (Wendover Woods) away and its near to lots of other bridleways and XC trails.
Under-developed yes, but probably got the largest catchment of any trail-centre in the UK.
Bedgebury and PORC are well within an hour of East Grinstead.
Why do you need a trail centre. Buy an OS map. Seek and yea shall find...
Bedgebury is OK, but I can think of tons of far better natural trails in the area... and despite being pretty densely populated, very few of the South East's denizens actually venture off road on bikes, so once you get away from the honeypots around Surrey, you can quite often find yourself riding all day and not meeting another soul. When I ride in the Lakes and Wales, I often find it too busy! I live in Kent - am about 3 miles from the M20 so don't live in a particularly remote area, but can do a 30-40K ride from the house - probably 80% offroad (lots of woody singletrack), and maybe see a couple of walkers or horse riders all day.
I live just down the road from East Grinstead (Crawley Down) and do most of my riding in the area, Tilgate forest, Holmbury/pitch/leith, south downs (now a national park), Bedgebury, St. leonards forest, Friston forest all within an hour, could be a lot worse imo.
AP what route do you use to get out on a CX bike, I'm looking to do the same when my new one arrives?
Life is full of compromises. Perhaps you could move house if the riding available is unsatisfactory. However to do so would more than likely diminish your pleasure in another aspect of your lifestyle.
Like someone above said - buy a map, it's all there. I like just riding the countryside, but I like trail centres too. I would def join in trail repair days, no problem, just ask, it would be a great workout.
About resting trails during wet periods. When horse riders rest trails during wet periods I will do likewise, until that day...