Forum menu
... XC champs at Inners today. Great course and some great racing. Some of the people racing cant ride techy stuff worth shit though. Elite level XC riders should not really be walking down/mincing down relatively easy descents. Congratulations to the winners and hopefully those that broke themselves heal quickly.
We need to have courses that suit the type of riding normal riders do.
Round here that is the type of riding normal riders do....
Can't say i fancy 39 steps or Matador on a xc race bike, but then i'm not an Elite rider. Spectating would have been fun in a slightly ghoulish way.
It didn't go near 39 steps and it was an easy section of matador.
Did you beat them all then?
No thought not.
No, but I did give them loads of encouragement and help if they needed it.
Interesting; I would expect the selection process to get to that level would involve weeding out the less talented, instead of relying just on cardio fitness.
No, but I did give them loads of encouragement and help if they needed it.
Until you got home, then slaughtered them on the internet.
Trailmonkey - I simply tell it like it is.
No excuse for walking. They should've been slaughtered whilst out on the trail as well as on the internet. I know i would've been shouting at them to get back on the bike.
That's what XC race courses are like in Scotland- they depend on rider skill, not just fitness.
It's usually a disappointment racing in England (Sherwood Pines, Mountain Mayhem and SITS anyone?) but Dalby's always a great place to race.
If walking a section is both quicker and means you don't crash and injure yourself, then walking the section will mean that you have more chance of winning.
Funny thing is, competitive racing is about winning, not about showing off your mad skillz, dood.
Also, why do some racers get off and run up a hill they [i]could[/i] ride up? Because it would be quicker and use less energy, therefore giving them more chance to win. After all, that is what it's all about....
Never have i seen a trail where walking down is quicker. They are elite [b]RIDERS[/b] afterall 😉
You'll notice how the best elite riders are amazingly fast downhill, Julien Absalon is positively scary fast downhill.
Frischi's DH skills are mental.
Not sure if anyone's seen Andy Barlow descend either- the boy's incredible.
And if Julien Absalon had started the thread it'd be a fair argument.
😉
a young lad in know named luke is pretty nippy downhill................................and races xc too............................... 😉
george, humility is a wonderfull quality................ 😉
Would you walk down this?
[img] 
[/img]
that x looks gnarly
if i had forgotten my bike then yes
and yes if Ton was in front as no way round him on that narrow trail 😉
No but on the same note I couldn't keep up with an elite CX rider on a long fireroad climb.
If you think you're faster overall get out there and prove it.
i would slide down on my bum............. 😆
but if it was steep, i would probably walk down..
Ton- I've been known to walk!
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
SSSTU - nowhere did I claim to be faster overall. But if you get to Elite you should be able to ride what is in that picture with ease.
OK you got me I almost started to argue with the zoo fighter.
hijack...............luke you heared owt from nick??????????
Aye, he's over on Mleh at the minute. A bit busy of late I think. You after going riding with him?
rolfharris = did you leave the wheels at home but still wanted to take part? 🙂
luke, yes mate.
ask him to bell me....
I wasn't there, so I'm not going to get into this course, all I know is what I've heard from the people I've spoken to, but why do you Scots seem to think a good XC course is a long dull climb, followed by a crazy descent?
I'm happy for courses to be more technical, it's not particularly what I like, but I don't see a problem with a variety of courses. But from what I've heard of this course, and my experience of the 2007 BUSA champs at Dunkeld they're just rubbish courses! Make them technical yes ok, to prove how manly you guys are or whatever, but why not have lots of little ups and downs, or make the climbs interesting or something!?
Elite level XC riders should not really be walking down/mincing down relatively easy descents.
and
...and hopefully those that broke themselves heal quickly.
Is it just my weird sense of humour or is there a certain irony putting those two sentances in the same paragraph? 😉
Njee- rollocks.
Aberfoyle SXC had a real beggar of a techy climb, as did the SSUKs and SXCs at Drumlanrig. Relentless had some really mean climbs. It's actually pleasant to have a climb at a race rather than a flat drag. Real world rides tend to have long climbs then tough descents, not short ups and downs that don't test stamina or endurance.
why do you Scots seem to think a good XC course is a long dull climb, followed by a crazy descent?
GIRL!
Seriously though what's wrong with it? Climb allows fitness to shine & folk to pass, descent demands technical skills (and recover for good riders).
It's great to see folk walking at xc races, it means it's techie enough.
Oh and it is "MOUNTAIN BIKING"!!!
on the same token thought nick ....we cant have em flat - like a dirt crit
everytime ive been in engerland doing racing (admittedly probably as often as you been up here )its been on something better suited to a cross bike .....
All the elite XC riders I've ever seen at events are absolutely fantastic at descending. Proper balls out over seriously techy stuff, they ride bikes offroad, ALL THE TIME. Mid level I know a few guys who are great but IME, this is where the poor descenders reside. Guys with a road biking background who can typically do well in amateur races because they're so fit, but bottle it at the first dip in the track.
Frischi's DH skills are mental.Not sure if anyone's seen Andy Barlow descend either- the boy's incredible.
Me n mr barlow used to ride for the same team when raced juniors. Still see him now and again. He is quick tho, i'll give him that
well said lukey i agree - todays ride for me was 1 big climb - 1 excellent downhill - 1 big climb and 1 excellent descent - but i guess in scotland we have big enough hills for rides like that 😉
Dirt Crit you say... Sounds like some of the events they had at Sherwood Pines when I used to live down that way. No skill needed whatsoever, just the ability to hurt for a couple of hours. Thetford is the same. For my money that isn't mountain bike racing.
we cant have em flat - like a dirt crit
No, no, I totally agree, definitely don't want flat courses, although I don't see the problem with having one flat course in a series, mixes things up a bit. What I don't like is having a long dull climb, followed by a single descent. Why not have lots of climbs, like Dalby or Drumlanrig does, it's much much much more interesting!
Anyway the race yesterday didn't have an 'Elite' race per se, it had an Over 23 and an Under 23, which are amalgamations of Expert and Elite, many Experts can't ride bikes for shit, myself included! The vast majority of actual Elites are pretty handy.
not many of our courses go straight up/straight down nick.
but its the way inners is, but it was hardly a dull climb, nice bit of singeltrack, broken up here and there with a flowing middle and a descent...
less than 500m of fireroad in the entire race (the trudge round the field was terrible, but thats the only way back in, since it ran through the arena/ and the only place big enough for the start).
to compare it to something you'd know nick, the 2nd big descent at dalby (that medusa's drop was it?) that whole descent would be pretty similar to the inners tracks used, except inners (by being more in the forest) is a bit more of a loamy track, and got a bit muddy with the rain...
the busa xc track (or descent) was more technical.
despite the signs [img] 
[/img]
it was a dh track back in the day, when dh started and inners was a big scene. but if you sent the national dh race down the tracks we used, people would be pretty pissed at having such a shit track.
its fairly technical on an xc bike. but on a dh bike, it would be like us rolling down glentress blue!!
xc mtb'ing shouldn't be won by the fittest person. You should be able to show fitness, riding and climbing quickly, and show techincal ability, descending well.
[url= http://www.youtube.com/user/AndyNeep#play/uploads ]Video of us Dh'ing it somewhere in this lot[/url]
Fair enough! I think it's a case of what you're used to and what you have to work with.
We have lots of short sharp hills around here, so our courses tend to reflect that. You have bigger hills, so you are able to design courses that do just go up, then down. I've not heard as many complaints as I did of Moelfre in 2006 at least!
It just seems sometimes that any major Scottish race becomes a case of willy waving and showing how technical courses can be made so people can puff their chests out and say 'this is what we ride all the time, like it or lump it', which I think is an awkward position to take. There's also the issues of people moaning about the rarity of a Scottish NPS race, but entry numbers are always down at races north of the border.
It's difficult, you have the ability to make courses very technical, people moan, courses tend to be faster and more flowing more down south, people moan!
I frmly believe that xc mountainbike courses should have technical tests on them or else it really becomes purely a test of fitness. The challenge should be IMO sort of red grade. ( but adjusted for the level of the race) I would like to see the course laid out with a few technical bits with chicken runs where the chicken run takes 10 - 20 seconds longer. No walking down the technical bit - marshal it and have a sin bin they have to stop in if they try to walk the shorter technical bit. This would give riders with riding ability an advantage
the champs course was done by steve at i-cycles.
he's somewhat "old skool" in how he likes his tracks. 'back in the day with proper technical descents and good long climbs to sort the men from the boys'. so to speak
most of our courses are more rolling, its just the odd one your up for seems to be a straight up/down affair 😀
the only scottish races for the nps i can think of are drumlanrig, which isn't that technical. its just got more roots than people from down south seem to be used to. (its a much more rolling course surely?) and tends to be wet on the weekend of an nps...
on the flat thing, i like thetford, its a massive bmx track 😀
and agree that one like that in a series is good...
went along later to watch the DH and there were loads of kids walking about with fresh slings on. and a mate of mine coaches for scottish cycling said loads of people were crapping it because the course was so technical. shows what you take for granted when you're used to it. Notably, in the junior sections at least, Scottish riders won every category (and usually 2nd and / or 3rd too).
Not that I'm blowing the Scots' trumpets, it was after all the British champs...