[Closed] Some happy news (Marzocchi 66 SL content)

I have some 07 66 SL ATA and they have never been happy (what with self wind down, oil leaks and never yielding full travel). Anyway I've sorted the first two (mainly through a useful forum on MTBR) but no matter what air pressures, never got full travel. If I used the air pressures you have, the fork would sag too much, way too much (I also weight less than yourself at 75Kg). I gave up on the forks late last year but was lucky enough to pick up a set of new 07 66 ETA's for £200 (didn't want 08's as they are way to pricey and even more problems !!), heavier, yes, but functionally a world away from the SL's and totally tuneable.

I've wasted hours of my life on these &^^)(&* things - taking them of, sending to windwave, putting them back on again, playing with pressure. I'm now at the stage where they sort of work and that will have to do. I dont think I'll ever be happy until I replace them, but prob not for a good while, credit crunch and all that:(

I used to run no +ve pressure at all in my Z1 SL. Just propped up by the PAR chamber. There was a link on Windwave's site about it.

I agree with yodhimi & steel4real on this. I had no end of troubles with my 07 66 SL ATAs, even when they were 'working' (i.e. fresh back from windwave) they didn't feel great. I went back to some 06 66SLs which are much better feeling (not as good as the 06 coil 66 RC2s though). A fork that even the manufacturers don't know how to set up must surely have some serious design flaws. No air in the +ve chamber and very high pressure in the PAR is pretty much the opposite of marzocchis reccomendations, and it didn't work for me very well.

I sold mine to MrNutt. He loves them though, so each to their own!

"I have some 07 66 SL ATA and they have never been happy (what with self wind down, oil leaks and never yielding full travel). I gave up on the forks late last year"

see if windwave can source the coil internals for the left hand leg (the one with travel adjust and two chambers). If you get coil that side (you may have to choose between 150 or 170mm) then you have a coil/air assist set up, while retaining the R and C damping plus air assist on the right hand leg.

would make a very nice fork, just a little heavier and without the travel adjust. I think, but it's not definite, that the coil internals for the 06 66rc2x should fit.

They can be made to work, seriously. I was not at all happy like you guys but they are lovely now. If you want I can disassemble it all with pics and show you what I did? If you are near South Wales I can do it for you...

And btw you can't get coil internals for them - I asked. Which is a bit crap as the coil 66 is basically the same, but they reckoned you'd need machining done to the crown.

As for tunability - these are actually very tunable. It's just that Windwave don't know how to fix or tune them themselves...

"And btw you can't get coil internals for them - I asked. Which is a bit crap as the coil 66 is basically the same, but they reckoned you'd need machining done to the crown."

bugger! any more details on the work required? I was hoping to do that to mine at some point 🙁 They look exactly the same crown as the 2006 models. Were you asking about the 07 internals? as the 07 coils were 180mm weren't they, while the 06 were 150 or 170 so may fit?

for the £80 for a new cartidge it would make an excellent pair of forks

Good stuff. I've actually still got mine and in a way you can fit coil internals to them. As part of my investigation into what best to do, when I got the 07 ETA fork I initially took the ETA (coil) cartridge out and fitted into the SL1 in place of the ATA cart. The fork worked a treat (with about 22 psi in the damper side - I'd effectively created a hybrid fork, that was actually the same as the 06 "ETA light". However I figured that realistically I'd have to sell the SL1 so I swapped everything back. I checked all this with windwave first as I originally enquired with them about buying the necessary to fit a ETE cart but the total was about £200 and there may have been problems getting all the parts. In the end as I mentioned, after trying to get a battered 'donor' fork I was lucky enough to get a brand new one for the same money.

I think the R & C cart in both forks is the same but on the 07 ETA there is also a coil in this side along with the necessary holder. Apart from that I don't think there is any difference.

as mentioned I've got ianpv's old 07 66 SL ATAs and I love em!!

I spent about four hours tinkering with them until I had them about right, I run them with about 40% sag but god knows what pressure is in where now as I've not fiddled since getting them sorted the day after I got em!

they are all kinds of great, just stupidly good!! 🙂

Hey Molgrips;-

If you want I can disassemble it all with pics and show you what I did?

If you did that I would be very interested as I like a good tinker and I would still be interested in 'resurrecting' my SL1's as they are more than a pound lighter that the ETA's !

If you can do it, please also email me in advance in case I miss the post !!

oh these may be of interest:

http://www.bearandwife.com/bear/cycling/zoke_66_sl1_ata_setup_info.html

🙂

Mr N - do you get full travel ?

that said, Molgrips I'd be interested to see what it is you've done!

I plan to wash the old girl down tomorrow so I'll stick a fork pump on them and take some reading for you all

(I weigh about 78kg)

yep, if I drop off something and land too hard, have you tried running at 40% sag?

(mine are the 180mm's)

Nice one - can I just ask about the travel again ?

Thank you !!!

hmm thinking back,

this was all I payed attention too whilst setting mine up:
[u]
General Guidance[/u]
Always have more pressure in PAR than SFA!
Fill PAR, then SFA.
Adjust SFA to set Sag.
Tune RC2 pressure to firm up initial stroke – very small changes!
Lean towards pressures in ATA for trail riding, low-pressure in RC2 for good small-bump sensitivity.
Be Patient! It takes 10-20 hrs of riding for the fork to wear into itself and get fully active.
Simen contributes setup rule of 3-2-1 ratios for PAR-SFA-RC2 air chambers. Hmmm.
Target no more than 30psi more in PAR than SFA (Naz @ Marz CA)

(from Bearandwife)

No - I ran about 50 - 55 mm (approx 30%). Fortunately the fork never really let me down and it had a smooth stroke but even on completely messing up a 6ft drop they didn't go near the full travel. The travel they had was very smooth and well controlled but the hybrid version I created and the actual ETA version are worlds apart in terms of performance, full travel when needed (same minimal compression setting) and just so much more supple on small and medium stuff, more traction in fact - I rode stuff faster !

And thanks for the info, all instructions were followed and you may have seen that I was an early contributor to that MTBR thread, in fact didn't I originally post those links on here in the first place !?

I'd be interested to know what your settings are. Let us know.

you know, I think you did actually give me those links when I was asking about how to set up mine! 😀

I wonder if its because I'm slightly heavier, run them with a bit more sag and on a long travel hardtail rather than a full suss?

(Orange Subzero 07-08)

I run mine on a subzero and they actually feel more supple than my 2005 66RCs! they have notbeen the most reliable fork though. I got em nearly new but even as 2nd hand forks windwave warranteed them when they went wrong twice in two weeks so a big thank you to windwave 🙂

After they came back for the 2nd fix, I got nealy 7 months of trouble free ridingout of mine. I pulled em apart a few weeks ago to clean and oil change and since then they felt soooooo smooth but started winding down so I'll have to have em apart again 🙁

very interested in the ETA coil fix though. was it simply take the coil stack out of the Z1s and drop it in the SL1s??

Just wish mine had a 1 1/8 headtube so I could fit em on my full sus bike

Also has any of you tried the mod where you remove the floating piston that seperates the PAR/SFA chambers to make it just a dual air fork? i.e. onechamber per leg

hmmm, I've got a set of z.1 RV sports, coil with a 1 1/8 headtube sat around doing nowt (serviced by windwave, unridden since with reciept), 20mm bolt through, I wonder if you could build something interesting using that?

skint at the moment sadly, otherwise might give it a try.

I've got a titanium sherman breakout+ 170mm spring knocking around, may see what I can bodge up with that 😯 😆

Mr N - no worries, glad it helped. But still let us know what you're running.

Andy P - I can fix the wind down for you - as long as you don't expect to change the length of the fork every ride, ATA is more of a set and ride ?, you can get stronger ball indent springs from me.

[url= http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?s=6ab99806335b2588ad558fa15b5d9001&t=339566&page=2 ]ATA wind down fix info[/url]

I use the same user name on MTBR, email in profile as web address. Springs are free as can post for a first class stamp.

I have no problems with my 06SL's (non-ata). First air fork I've used that I managed to get pretty much perfect setup first time. Barely had to touch them and they feel pretty close to the coil 888 RC2X they replaced.

06's use a totally different system to the ATA's in 07 & 08 and once set up correctly have a totally different, better, reputation for performance.
(06 Z1 SL's also have a reputation for being awesome as they have the same air system - Doppio air )

I'll build the bike up now (its sat upside down at the moment, I do this now and then!) I'll wash it off tomorrow night and get some reading for you, as Ian said he'd sent it off to windwave a few times so maybe they did something to it? I've not had any wind down so far 🙂

Thanks steel4real, appreciate the offer :-). I'll have a go at tightening them up and if it doesn't work I'll give you a shout

Err, hello to all the 66 regulars - seem to remember a couple of similar threads on the old stw

My 66slata is pretty nice I think, but then my pro-status is in doubt and not sure I'd notice unless it was properly kack

I took it straight to WWave when I got it as it had a fault with the dust seal spring. While it was there (I watched), the ata leg innards were swapped for "the new one" (??). The guy also put in some apparently special teflon jizz. I was reminded that the lower chamber must have higher pressure than the upper one (to prevent the ATA wire getting fouled up). They also told me what pressures to use & gave me a laminated sheet with new pressures on it (yeh, of course I've lost that !)

Aaaaanyway, took it to Les Arcs this summer and I was faster than last time when I had a z1 coil/air fork (I don't think I'd remembered the trails and I don't ride enough to have improved technique but I suppose the 66 at least can't have been MUCH worse than the Z1, plus a bit longer). What I did see in the alps was a [u]bit[/u] of wind-down, that I've currently "fixed" with a zip tie (Marcus, if you've loads of springs spare I'd be grateful....)

Like Mr N, I have quite a lot of sag (my moobs, especially!) and pressures in both are quite low (top is under half the bottom but don't remember more than that). The fork was DED plush - reckon you'd call wallowy if trying to pedal it far, but I was ski-lifting so no bother. If I was going to pedal it far I think I'd have to set it much harder, though might ramp up a bit from being wound-down I guess.

Still awake? Congratulations, it's over !

one thing I noticed when I took the cartidge side top cap off it that air came out. Not out of the cartrige but out of the fork leg. I thought it was only the cartridge that was supposed to be pressurised? Is this a leaky O ring or something?

If you did that I would be very interested as I like a good tinker and I would still be interested in 'resurrecting' my SL1's as they are more than a pound lighter that the ETA's !

Ok, I can do that.

As for removing the PAR, I considered this but didn't end up doing it. Another possible tuning option is to change the length of the string.. who says these forks aren't tuneable? 🙂 Ok so you have to almost strip it, but hey.

I had my wind-down fixed by windwave - I don't know if they replaced the whole cartridge, but this wasn't that long ago - you might try giving them a call. It seems to work in the same way though so you might try just adjusting your current setup. You know there's grub screws in there to tighten up the ball bearings that make click, right? You could try stronger springs too but good luck finding suitable teeny tiny springs.

Anyway, since you ask I'll do the strip down again someday and I'll post it up. Unless you want to send me your forks and I'll do it to yours 🙂

one thing I noticed when I took the cartidge side top cap off it that air came out.

Could be a leaky seal but could also have been warmer when it was assembled I suppose.

[u]

You know there's grub screws in there to tighten up the ball bearings that make click, right? You could try stronger springs too but good luck finding suitable teeny tiny springs.

-molg - as you can see from my post above, am aware of this [i][u]and[/i][/u] have suitable springs (check the link) 😀

Mike - I have loads of the springs, email me your address, my email is in profile as mentioned.

AndyPaice,

that happened to mine, it is the cartridge leaking into the main leg. Bad luck - it's effectively giving you a big, undamped positive spring 🙁

Windwave won't sell you the O-ring you need, so you'll have to investigate that yourself, or send it back to them for another £80 service. Or, flog it and buy a trouble free 06 66SL like solamanda & me 🙂

I had some 66SL's. Possibly the worst fork I have ever experienced.

An utter PITA to set up properly, and once I finall found some setting that worked, they spat their guts out 3 times in a 3 month period. Back to Windwave every single time thankfully.

Best thing I ever did was sell them after collecting them from their 3rd repair.

steel4real,

when I click on your username to find your email addy it just takes me to the hotmail log in page, doesn't show your email address. Please can you let me have your email addy so I can give you a shout, mine is
" a_paice at hotmail dot com "

I've tried tightening the springs today and they went to the point of locking the adjuster without making that much difference in the resistance of the ATA knob, so I guess they are pretty tired, so I would really appreciate a set of springs if that's OK with you 🙂

Ian PV, I thought that may be the case 🙁 I'll rip it apart and head out to city seals and bearings and see if I can get a matching O ring. Any idea which one it is on the cartridge?

no air's come out of them yet Ian 🙂

I was planning on washing the bike this evening but I've had such a nightmare day at work and I'm utterly burnt out, I'll do it tomorrow! (I have to as I'm taking it into the LBS for them to give it some lovin!)

AndyP - email address is [b]in[/b] my profile as a web address 🙂

...copy, click & paste but remove the http:// bit and you're left with my email address ! 🙄

Send me your postal address and I'll send you a couple of springs ❗

Well it WAS there, chuffin heck I've just tried changing it and now there's nothing. Blast.

Sod it ' I'll just email you.

OK - I've emailed Andy and also got my email in my profile as occupation.

I think it looks clearer now ?! 🙂

cheers, I couldn't figure out what was going on 🙁 I'll give you a shout.

Thanks again

shock! horror! I cleaned my bike!!

ok my readings are as follows:

ATA = 28
PAR = 52
RC2 = 4 pumps (the last time I did it, which was when I got them a fair few months ago)

goofing about in the car park whilst drying my tyres I would estimate that I get about 40% sag and got about 90% travel slamming on the front brake at slow speed and almost going over the handlebars, I'm pretty sure that should it hit it hard enough I'd get full travel. (that said It really wouldn't worry me if I didn't!)

I've not had wind down, I can only assume (touch wood) that when Ian took them to Windwave the last time they managed to fix them! 🙂

Cheers Mr N. Interesting settings - I'm not sure if I ever went as low as that. There may be something in it though and in addition, lowering the oil in the RC2 side would allow some range to prop the fork up.

I use a low pressure 'zocchi pump which means I can add small amounts, to be honest I think there may have been a bit more in there when I first set them up but not a great deal more!

I got them off Ianpv back in August so thats six months of trouble and adjustment free use! (apart from me deliberately winding them down when heading uphill)

I like the forks to be "active" whilst riding, I don't mind a bit of pedal bob and the 40% sag means they track the terrain and I've no problems lifting the front.

to be honest I looked at that bears thing, set them up and then rode them around Cwm Carn adjusted them how I felt would make them better, did a bit of local riding, they felt good, back to Cwm Carn and they were great.

The Orange Subzero was marketed as 140mm to 180mm with 160mm being the optimum travel, with the extra 10% sag that sits my fork at about 160mm with enough "drop" to track superbly.

all in my mad old opinion though! 😆

MrN, are those pressures what your pump reads after reattaching? If so, then your real ones must've been a bit higher (but then I think you prob know that stuff)

any idea what 4 pumps puts into the right leg ? (yes, AIR)

I've left that empty in the past but might have a go (always seemed to me that it ramps up enough anyway even without any pressure in there, but then I am a bit of a nancy)

Sorry! I can't remember and I've lost the little adapter thing and can't find another for love nor money!!

it tunes the initial stroke ...I think! 😆

if anyone knows where I can get one from I'd be eternally grateful!!

it tunes the initial stroke ...I think!

Aaaah, I thought it was to ramp up the last bit

I must RTFM, I must RTFM, I must RTFM...

(you can borrow my adaptor for a bit if you need one - won't be on that bike for at least a month)

[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?PartnerID=79&ModelID=19020 ]But, err, I'm offering one like this ?[/url]

oh well done that man!! I'm gonna buy me one of them!!

many thanks!

ok, just been out giving the old sticks a bit of a tune up, the results are as follows:

ATA = 45
PAR = 65
RC2 = 10

all in PSI, get 70% travel when hitting a high kerb at speed, I think its safe to assume that I'll be getting full travel when needed, I'm also running at about 35% sag.

lovely and smooth travel, less bob when climbing than previous settings.

I'm 5.10 and weigh 80kg.

I had a look at mine a week or 3 ago

I can get it lovely & smooth even when I push up the spring rate BUT can't get full travel when it's wound right out (even if I empty all chambers, cycle the fork, re-empty). Missing 20-25mm.
someone on that MTBR thread said the same

Due a service before the summer anyway - will see what windywave can magic up for me

they worked an absolute treat today, the new settings I'm using seem to make the front end seem less "heavy", if that makes any sense?

I found that before, when lifting the front wheel, they felt slightly "planted", today I had no problems there! the front if anything felt alot lighter than before, I can't work it out! perhaps the new settings prevent the fork "dropping" the sag when the fork is being lifted? what ever happens they were as close to perfect as they've ever been!

I love em!

Mr N - have a go at getting full travel when wound out, would you ?

I'd be interested

I think I am the only person never to have problems with my 66 RC3

Love em...granted there is a bit of play in the top bushings but when under normal riding with sag they are lovely.

nope nasher, mine are a joy!

(although they were sorted by the good folk of windwave prior to me sticking them on my bike!)

scaredypants, I'm pretty sure I get full or nearly full travel (ie: no 'missing' 25mm), perhaps you've got too much oil in yours?

can't be too much oil - it gets full travel when wound down

weird, really (the mtbr geezer had an explanation but no solution)

It's not that I care [u]that[/u] much - it rides just fine, and 150's enough for any man, surely 😉

Sorry to dig up an old thread - did anyone ever actually get their ata cart to move more than about 155mm?

If not, think I'll strip mine and see if there is indeed too much oil in there - seems highly unlikely as they wont compress any further even with all air valves removed or pressed in...

Beginning to wonder what the point of them is, may as well get a z1sl and get the same amount of travel (almost)