I'm in the market for a new rear wheel as my current Hope Pro II / Mavic XM819 combo is starting to look rather battered after 4 years of being subjected to Peak District rocks.
I've loved this combo and am certainly impressed with the strength of the wheel, but I've always had a problem with pinch punctures, and recently have been plagued by them, even though I run tubeless. On a trip to Coed-y-Brenin at the weekend I started off running tubeless with 2 tubes in my pack and 10 patches - I returned with no tubes in the pack and only 2 patches! If you were on the Tarw Du trail on Saturday and heard someone screaming in the woods, that was probably me when I got one of those many punctures! All of these were rear wheel - no issues with the front (same rim).
Could it be that the profile of the rim is what is causing these issues? I'm sure I heard somewhere that Mavic rims have a tendency to cut through tyres. Or is it just the tyre (I've always run High Roller LUSTs on the rear)?. Are there any better tyres (in terms of pinch puncture resistance) that can be run UST for a similar (or lower) weight? I've occasionally had similar flats on the front (previously running HR LUSTs, now HR II), but normally the rear, but I'm sure this is just due to my weight being over the rear.
I don't run silly low pressures in my tyres. All the cuts I get in the tyres (or at least the ones that won't seal) are just above the tyre bead, and are a pig to fix. If I have to put a tube in on the trails then they tend to pinch flat on the first rocky descent even with high pressures (admittedly I haven't been using particularly heavy-duty tubes).
I've never paid much attention to rims other than Mavics as I've always used them and love how strong they are. Should I be looking at Stans or are they really made of cheese? What other options should I look at. Ideally I'd like to lose a bit of weight from the wheel, but at least not gain any, and ideally I'd like a slightly wider internal width.
Currently considering the following:
- Crossmax XL WTS (spot on width and weight wise, slightly worried about hub longevity)
- Hope Pro 2 Evo / Mavic EN821 (roughly same weight as current, 2mm wider, but would it be any better for pinch punctures?)
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I don't run silly low pressures in my tyres.
Give us a clue
The gauge on my track pump is not particularly accurate, but around 40 psi. I weigh 16 st, running 2.35" tyres.
Wide tyres on a relatively narrow rim will be more likely to burp than the same tyre on a wider rim.
Bybtubeless pinch flat I assume you mean burp.
Pinkbike did a good article on the benefits/ science behind wider rim widths.
[url= http://m.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday--Wider-Rims-Are-Better-and-Why-Tubeless-Tires-Burp-.html ]here[/url]
So. Like bars.. Rims are better wider also 😉
I weigh a bit more than you, ride skinnier tyres (tubeless) and only have around 25psi. Admittedly I don't ride the peaks but I do ride rocky trails and have had next to no issues.
I have stans (arch ex) and bonty rims.
A Schwalbe SuperGravity tyre would definitely solve this problem - roll like a single-ply because they're single ply under the tread but have the cornering stability and pinch resistance of a dual-ply (because they're dual ply on the sidewalls).
Last weekend one of my mates got four pinch flats, two riding The Gap, two at BPW, and I thought that was bad going! Mind you, he's only 11 stone and he had the pressure up at well over 40psi by the time he got the final one. Geax Goma are not made for hard riding on rock! And that was with DH tubes...
Are you sure the rim isn't damaged in some way that it's cutting through the tyres? I'm about 15st and run Maxxis LUST tyres at about 25-30psi. I had some issues like you with non-LUST Maxxis but even then only when I was thumping through rockgardens like a piano down a staircase. Either that or maybe the rumor you heard is true; I've been using Stan's rims for years now (I used to have Mavic 719s without many issues too).
By tubeless pinch flat I assume you mean burp.
Different thing entirely, isn't it?
I've pinch flatted tubeless and it's twin holes just above the bead, one on each side of the tyre, which sounds like what the OP describes.
Harder rims are always more likely to pinchflat a tyre- they've got no give. (that's why the old 729 is so soft, it was designed to dent more easily and save you from flats)
LUST aren't very tough, I've had good results with EXO sidewalled non-tubeless maxxisses. Tarw is pretty rough/hard edgey in places but generally not a tyre killer rime
Warpcow made a really good point there, is there any chance the rim's damaged.
Wide tyres on a relatively narrow rim will be more likely to burp than the same tyre on a wider rim.
Bybtubeless pinch flat I assume you mean burp.
Did you not read the bit in OP about getting cuts just above the bead, that sounds like a tubless pinch flat to me... despite the 'I never pinch flat with tubless' brigades insistance it [i]does [/i]still happen.
OP, assuming your rims are not somehow razor sharp due to scratches and damage I think you have 3 options.
1. DH/dual ply tyres and likely fix most problems at the expense of weight
2. Add more pressure and likely fix most problems at the expense of grip and comfort
3. 1+2 and likely fix all your problems at the expense of weight and grip and comfort.
4? A wider rim will probably be an improvement as when you do bottom the tyre out it is likely to be a bit less harsh and will be more supported by the thicker bit of the tyre, but IMO it will only be a marginal improvement as if you're pinch flatting a UST or LUST* casing now I imagine you still will.
*LUST are not [i]that[/i] tough actually, but are thicker than a normal non UST compatible tyre.
most Mavic rims are a very hard alloy, DT and others are a lot softer and will often dent without causing a pinch puncture where a mavic would shrug off the impact but puncture. You make your choices there though, rim or tyre.
I don't mean to be rude, but if you have that many problems it suggests to me you might be, er, 'riding like a sack of spuds' for want of a better phrase 😳
A conscious effort to ride lighter and work on your technique may help, but if you want to blunder through rocks at warp 10 and 16st with ~40PSI in your tyres you're either going to need to get smoother or use tougher rubber.
Is this on a hardtail or full sus BTW?
Just my experience, but I have been running Stams Flow and Arch EX rims with Maxxis EXO 2.4 tyres (Ardent, High Roller, Minion) for some time, with tubes, at around 30psi, in the Alps, and have had very few punctures at all. Some care taken over the rocky stuff but not that much.
17stone 10lb and ride 2.2 on both 29er and 26er hardtails tubeless one 29er on XM rim with gorilla tape ghetto and 26 on Red Zone tubeless rims. I don't ride below 30 psi or I have a tendency to burp the tyres on either set up and having stacked it once rolling a front tyre off at Antur I err on the side of caution. I have come close riding up square edged steps ( concrete slab type sharp edged) bottomed out hard but didn't cut the walls. For me you're probably better off ditching the LUST for heavier gauge sidewalls or a more accurate tyre gauge and 35psi.
My Joe Blow gauge is hopelessly inaccurate.
Yes, as most of you understood, it is pinch flats that are the problem, not burping.
I'll check the rim for damage, it is entirely possible that there are some rough edges, but the nature and location of the cuts suggests to me that this isn't the problem.
It's on a FS (Orange 5).
I don't claim to be the best rider out there, but I think my technique is reasonably good. After a week of training with Andy Barlow from Dirt School in the Alps a few years ago, I make a conscious effort to ride light over the rough stuff and heavy on the smoother parts of the track where you want to brake or turn. I certainly try to pick a line, rather than 'blunder through rocks'. Of course there's plenty of room for improvement, but I do constantly think about how to improve my riding and would hope that I don't 'ride like a sack of spuds'. Of course, no matter how good a rider you are, there are going to be occasions when you need to weight the bike on a rocky part of the track and riding light isn't an option (try riding light down the whole of Cave Dale or the Beast!).
It seems that different tyres and/or more pressure are probably the answer. I'd rather be replacing tyres than rims, so I think I'll be sticking with Mavics. Still not sure whether to go for the EN821 or the Crossmax XL. The XL is a couple of mm wider than the 821, and quite a bit llighter, but a bit reluctant to go for something with non-standard spokes and hub (even though they look really cool).
Any suggestions for High Roller / HR2 style tyres that will be stronger but not gain too much weight?
I feel your pain. I used to get a few, not as many as you but enough, on my old bike. I think that the fact it was a short bike exasperated it. Changed bikes and also have the Mavic Enduro wheels which are quite soft but have only had maybe one pinch this year. New bike helps too I think as the suspension works really nicely on the bigger rocky bits.
FWIW I found LUST amongst the worst for pinch flats. I ended up running dual ply tyres and I also found that the schwalbe super gravity worked really well without being stupidly slow.
I suspect wider/softer rims make a difference but not half as much as a stiffer sidewall. I've found the Protection Conti's have a stiffer carcass than the UST ones so I don't know if Maxxis Exo might be stiffer than LUST?
If you go with a wider rim and a stiffer sidewall then you'll probably be able to run lower pressures - without the wider rim you'll risk burping at your weight when cornering hard. There's a current fashion for really wide rims (30mm+ internal) but they leave the sidewalls and rim edges more at risk of damage in rocky terrain, so as usual something middling (like the Flow EX (25.5mm internal)) is a good bet. Mavic rims tend towards the skinny side but the Crossmax XL is a decent width.
If you're convinced it's not technique then definitely got for beefier rubber, didn't mean to offend with the sack I spuds comment but 2 tubes and 8 patches doesn't sound like riding light.
I've ridden CYB (and not slowly) and although it's got some rocky sections it's not exactly horrific so if you're suffering that badly then it's time to swap to some tyres with a bit more support, and maybe consider upping the pressures a little.
I was a Mavic fan but run Flow EX. No problems with either but the wider profile helps support big rubber.
Dual ply Maxxis (run tubeless) is the best insurance to pinch flats. You need to really stuff a water bar on a faset descent to pinch. However, for last 4 months its been super gravity Schwalbe and no punctures.
Anyone got any experience of the Snakeskin versions of the Schwalbe tyres in comparison to either the Super Gravity ones or Maxxis LUSTs?
I use the exact same rear wheel as you, and I have to say they are immensely tough old rims, but that has it's downsides. Obvious ones first: check the rim for dings and burs? and get rid of the maxxis LUST, I'm 11st and even I've managed to pinch them.
I use Conti Xking 2.4 UST front and rear, front at 20 rear at 25, no issues at all.
Anyone got any experience of the Snakeskin versions of the Schwalbe tyres
I've got Snakeskin Hans Dampfs on Flow Ex's. I've been impressed with how they've held up.... Except on one rocky descent where I put a gouge in the surface of the edge of the rim, this put an annoying hole in the tyre near the bead which I've had to repair. The same descent put a hole between the tread too.
Others than this one instance they've been difficult to puncture. I run them pretty soft.
IME Snakeskin + Proper Trails = Pinch Puncture Hell. We had a guy out last week with snakeskin rock razors, tubeless, and he must have had over 10 pinches through the week. Poor guy. They´re just not strong enough for the rocky trails we took him on. Remember it depends where you´re riding though, we did around 10,000m of rocky descending that week.
LUST tyres working for me - they have much thicker sidewalls than EXO. weigh a bit more too.
Would be tempted to fit a 2.5 EXO DHF or Ardent EXO 2.4, either way the widest, tallest, fatest tyre you can fit. Oh and a new pump, and or pressure guage. We're all assuming your running 40psi however the op shows the accuracy of the guage is not known.
Re: Your tyres.
Highrollers have a short tyre wall profile (they're not particularly high volume), they're not as tall as either of the above.
Snakeskins are crap
If ever there was a misleading tyre name!doug_basqueMTB.com - rock razors
Schwalbe Super Gravity are really tight on the rim and reassuring if a swine to get on and off.
German shops are your friend and they can be had for £33
I've pinched a tubeless EXO on a 33mm rim, cuts too big to seal with stans sealant, with your weight I would def go for something tougher than an EXO
Schwalbe Super Gravity tyres sound like the ones to go for. My only concern is that it seems they size up like 2.5" High Rollers, which seems too wide to be running on 19mm inner width rims. Might have to upgrade both wheel and tyre.
Which is the better all round tyre, Hans Dampf or Magic Mary?
I have had great success with Hans in both snakeskin and super gravity. As said the super gravity ones can be a swine to get on and off, as tyre lever braking but great tyres. Both have been puncture free on EN521s and the last 6 months on wtb frequency i25 rims. If you want a wider, tough but not too heavy rim then I would wholeheartedly recommend the WTBs. Mega approved!
I'm with Tomaso on this.
Dual ply Maxxis on Flow EX or Syntace W35, run tubeless. They're the only things that I've found sufficiently robust on the rear.
Loving Magic Mary on the front though with the W35 rim (it's only snakeskin too!). Zero problems in the last 10 months of use on a 160mm FS ridden bull-in-a-china-shop style.