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10 speed also seems to wear absolutely fine on cx bikes that have been running it for a few years now.
Well Ceels's 10-speed CX bike just needed a new chain a year down the line, which was £35 as opposed to £15, and broke in multiple places after less than 100 miles. Admittedly it seems like it was a bad batch, but from my attempts at indexing her bike, 10-speed seems significantly more temperamental than 9-speed.
For fettlers and racers, 10-speed could be a great thing. For most people who just ride their bikes and tend to have slightly dirty cables, wobbly freehubs, or any of the other things that ye olde 7-speed set-ups used to shrug off, 10-speed will wear out sooner and add to the amount of time you spend grovelling around in the shed. 🙂
This thread is full of all the same moans that were applied to 8 and 9 speed all those years ago. None of which, IME are true.
Like clubber, I've noticed no real difference in the wear of 8 or 9 speed gear and the mud clearance and clogging is just like with clipless pedals - vastly overstated.
Admittedly it seems like it was a bad batch, but from my attempts at indexing her bike, 10-speed seems significantly more temperamental than 9-speed.
Initially had problems with the 10 speed set up on my road bike and like you I cited it's temperamental nature, then I learned to set it properly and have had zero problems since. 😉
Like clubber, I've noticed no real difference in the wear of 8 or 9 speed gear and the mud clearance and clogging is just like with clipless pedals - vastly overstated.
What part is supposed to get clogged in mud? Being a regular rider in the Bristol shitfest clogged gears has never been a problem on my 9 speed setup and I use a 10 speed chain.
Get back in the knife drawer Miss Sharp.
Well, since its never happened to me I'm not fully sure, but its one of the things always sited by the 'change is bad' mob.
I suppose they mean the ever reducing space between cogs.
I suppose they mean the ever reducing space between cogs.
Nope never been an issue for me as I recall.
Its only needed for racers/downhillers/roadies (delete as applicable). All the same was said about:
indexed gears front, back
7, 8, 9 speed
suspension front, back
disks
You can bet that in a few years time you will all be running 10 speed.
I think 1x10 + chainguide on the big bike would be good
And I'd quite like a 2x10 on the 'light' bike
WE FEAR CHANGE
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And I'd quite like a 2x10 on the 'light' bike
Me too, I'd upgrade like a shot when my last 9 speed cassette died as long as it didn't mean a new rear hub, I presume like the road equivalent it will just need a spacer on the freehub.
Don't confuse novelty with innovation kimbers
Meh...I'd rather wait for the 3 speed hammerschmidt, I think changing gears when stationary would be a better improvement
My first ever bike was a 10 speed - an Apollo racer from Halfords in 1988...
IMO the best thing about ten speed is that it will facilitate much more usable single front-ring setups.
I am waiting for all the hardly used 9spd stuff to appear on the classifieds - I should be able to pick up enough to keep me going for years
if they drop the granny ring, reduce the q factor to me that is a step forward.
Most chain snapping issues are at the front. Chainsuck is at the front. Moving to a 2x9 is a compromise as you loose a little of the gear range over 3x9, moving to 2x10 eliminates that problem. 2 chainrings mean less shifting and thus less issues and with a 11-36 cassette you have the same range.
on the front2 chainrings mean less shifting
It means more shifting on the rear don't it?
It means more shifting on the rear don't it?
it does, but rear shifts never load the chain as much as front shifts and tend not to result in chainsuck or broken chains.
I've snapped 3 chains since Dec. I'm worried 10 speed chains will be lighter and weaker. I'm even debating going 8 speed at the moment!
I'm worried 10 speed chains will be lighter and weaker
They are lighter, they are not weaker unless they are made by SRAM in which case they are regardless of speed, I've been running Shimano and KMC 10 speed chains on my MTB without any problems at all.
Aye but are you a 17st fat knacker who likes to get up on the pedals and hoon it up hills to try and embarrass the young whippets? My gut can't take many more stem imprints or my shins anymore chainring slice ups which have resulted from said gut/stem interfaces!
10 Speed works fine on cross and racing that is far muddier an experience that mountain biking. Cleaning the cassette takes more effort than 9 though.
Have any of these people going on about how it's going to last two seconds actually done any tests on it? 10 speed might well end up running with a better chainline.
Snapped chains - are they all from the same manufacturer? All due respect, but I think pros will be putting out far more watts than you, so if you're constantly snapping chains then something is wrong and it's not to do with how many ratios your bike has.
Not wishing to sound like a troll, but does anyone (other than racers I guess) actually want/need 10 speed? Serious question, maybe I'm missing something here?
no we don't. imo suntour or microshift would do well to expand their market by making a high quality (say xt level) 8speed set up. they could even adopt a 'standard' for the width of the freehub (maybe a hope singlespeed size or hadley etc) then hub manufactureres could make there singlr speed freehubs to that size etc. etc.
it'll never happed but it's nice to dream.
mountain bikes are often compared with rally cars - there is a reason most cars on the road and highly tuned race machines - how come all of our bikes are supposed to be?
They are lighter, they are not weaker
The side-plates are thinner so for a given price point, the chain will be weaker. I've had very few problems with cheap 7 or 9-speed chains, but an entire batch of 10-speed Ultegra chains turned out to be duff recently as the side plates were too brittle - have a google for it.
And, as stated above, has anyone seen the prices for 10-speed road chains? 😯
Snapped chains - are they all from the same manufacturer? All due respect, but I think pros will be putting out far more watts than you, so if you're constantly snapping chains then something is wrong and it's not to do with how many ratios your bike has.
Watts have got cock all to do with the breaking strain of a chain. Physics FAIL! Although yer man Absolon would probably finish a race in half the time it took me at half the mass so the watts would be similar.
No they're not all the same manufacturer. Yes there's something wrong, they're not up to the job that I put them through and thanks I'll just ignore the ratios comment. Maybe you could run a master class on how to change gear?
It's all side plates that have broken for me recently. I reckon it's all to do with ice on the chainrings and cassettes forcing the plates apart. I may yet add to my total of 40 snowy rides this winter but to be honest I've had enough now. Mind you some of these hills are going to have it into June!
Really interested to see this news. Question is, do we think that this is a genuine move that will take off, or a tentative move that will look quite amusing in a couple of years' time
"I reckon it's all to do with ice on the chainrings and cassettes forcing the plates apart"
+1, or caused by grit having a similar effect. 3 snapages this winter - two links and one power-link, 0 on the summer. Chain is getting a bit short now, but it doesn't flap about much!
And, as stated above, has anyone seen the prices for 10-speed road chains?
Two wweks ago I paid £18 for a KMC X10 (Slightly lighter than Dura Ace / XTR) at at Merlin.
[url= http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/bicycle-chains/kmc-x10-chain.html ]Perfectly reasonable price for a chain IMO.[/url]
[i]it will clog with mud worse than 9sp does[/i]
Not in my [b]experience[/b] with XX, rear cassette holds very little crud due to there being so little to adhere to/clog.
I'm liking 2x10 not from a race point of view but from an everyday riding one. Less shifts up front, plenty of gear options in a more straightforward package, no need to constantly fettle, no sloppy shifting etc etc.
I'd say given the level of investment by both Sram and Shimano it's here to stay....
Can I just point out that broken chains is very unlikely to be anything to do with the width of the side plates - you won't be breaking those unless there's a manufacturing fault (as was with a bunch of 8 speed chains several years ago now).
My wife's thoughts-
" well why don't you just have on the gears that you use the most and take the others off, then you wouldn't need all these gears"
I laughed at her at first, then I thought....
That'll be the uber expensive, uber wastefully made XX cassette then Dave?! Hope the X& is as good then.
Do you not miss being able to quickly switch between 3 big ratio jumps on the front?
Perfectly reasonable price for a chain IMO.
And a Yaban 10-speed chain is a tenner on CRC. Nevertheless it does seem that the going rate for a decent 10-speed road chain is somewhere around thirty quid, as opposed to fifteen or twenty.
And a Yaban 10-speed chain is a tenner on CRC. Nevertheless it does seem that the going rate for a decent 10-speed road chain is somewhere around thirty quid, as opposed to fifteen or twenty.
I don't see your point, KMC make chains for Shimano, the quality is comparative if not better, the X9 and X10 range have a very good reputation, If you really must have SRAM or Shimano then yes your wallet may get raped.
Unless you're stuck in the dark ages and still running 9-speed? 🙂
Onzadog - Member
Isn't Stan of no tubes fame playing around with a 6 speed rear wheel so it cane be dishless with fewer spokes?
great idea and can be done with standard parts you can fit 6 sprockets on a hope trials freehub. if you want to try it out, just remember to set the limit screw so you don't mash the spokes.
clubber - Member
Can I just point out that broken chains is very unlikely to be anything to do with the width of the side plates
The sideplates are too thin, there isn't enough metal there. I saw the chain Devs broke and was astonished that it had failed in tension, first time I've seen it in 15 years. I'm never going 9 speed let alone 10 speed unless they stop making 7/8 speed stuff.
The sideplates are too thin, there isn't enough metal there. I saw the chain Devs broke and was astonished that it had failed in tension, first time I've seen it in 15 years.
I had two top of the range 9 speed SRAM chains do that to me a couple of years back both snapped on the side plate and I wasn't the only one. That has never happened to me with any Shimano or KMC chain 9 or 10 speed, I think most of us are safe to progress to 10 speed without catastrophic chain failure, that said I have no Idea what Dev must be doing to get through so many chains from different manufacturers.
[b]TORQUE!![/b]
Question is, do we think that this is a genuine move that will take off, or a tentative move that will look quite amusing in a couple of years' time
It's not a 'move', it's simply evolution, why on earth would they give up on it?
Having been riding XX for a few months (admittedly not that often due to the extortionate cost of cassettes!) I see none of the issues that people harp on about, cassettes don't fill with mud, the chain line is much better with more usable gears than a 3x9 (but comparable to a 2x9).
If you go for a 26/39 chainset with an 11-36 cassette the 26/36 gear is somewhere between a 22/34 and 22/30, ie one sprocket down on the cassette. So yes, you will lose the very very bottom gear. I suspect to most people it will make no difference, you will just pedal a tiny bit harder when you get to that point, when you're moving at <3mph!
It's looking like Shimano are going to do triples, so you can just go 3x10 if you want, you gain ratios then, although I'm sure then people will just whinge about snapping chains, which is more likely to be with hamfisted riding than bad equipment!
[I]]Do you not miss being able to quickly switch between 3 big ratio jumps on the front?[/I]
nope..
Agreed, the less shifting on the front the better surely!?
Meh, I'm not really too fussed about ten speed as far as i'm concerned there was nothing wrong with 8 speed. What I would like to see is an 11-36 9 speed cassette. That would make 1x9 much more viable for me. Is there any technical reason why this couldn't be done?
None at all, you'll just have big jumps, but as said elsewhere, there's already a 12-36.
"What I would like to see is an 11-36 9 speed cassette. That would make 1x9 much more viable for me. Is there any technical reason why this couldn't be done?"
Some mechs might have issues with it... But apparently the current XT is rated for 36T (Shimano already has a 36-12 sprocket for clownbikes which you can adapt to 36-11, but it's heavy and gives a big step between the top 2 ratios).
I think the reason a light 11-36 hasn't come along is purely because it reduces the impact of 10 speed. Seems to me that the major advantages of XX aren't anything to do with being 10 speed.
I personally would want basic 7 speed but to a high spec and XT quality, speaking to microshift they seem to like the idea also so hopefully they might make something decent, also speaking to SRAM, they had no consideration of the issues around dirt ingress, tolerance of gear set up etc, they just work on the premise that everyone runs perfectly set up kit that dosent get damaged/dirty/worn, etc, so they arent considering the problems that slightly bent mech hangers, sticky cables, near zero tolerance on cable set up might cause poor shifting, broken chains etc.
just another example of the industry missing the point of what the customers want in my view.