At 11.30 in the morning!
Lady car driver in a country lane, admittedly there were trees about but isnt that taking things a bit far?
I guess she struggled to see me in a shadow but she had seen me as she slowed down in plenty of time to have a go!
Anyone else take lights with them when daylight riding?
She may have had a point?
yep always have rear light on when commuting and on road, front turned on even if just a bit grey, best give everyone as much chance to see you as possible IMO.
For roads with tree cover and other dark bits, on murky autumn days, yeah I use my lights.
Did she have her lights on?
use your bell
don't use your bell
your lights aren't bright enough
your lights are too bright
get out of the gutter
get in the gutter
you shouldn't be on the road
you should be on the road
blah
don't blah
use your judgement
Did she have her car lights on?
lights on in daytime:
legal - no
a good idea - very
I hope you told her to **** off and get her eyes tested.
+ 1 for lights in the day mainly rear.
I've lost count of the amount of idiots I've seen on phones so whatever makes us stand out is worth it.
Did have one old girl shout " your lights on love " so I replied " yeah thanks I know at least you saw me " 😀
yep always have rear light on when commuting and on road, front turned on even if just a bit grey
As above.
As it happens, I also always have my car lights on as well. Why doesn't every car have running lights a la Volvo? Seems a perfectly logical thing to do to me.
Was less sure about the bloke on the Twrch at CC this weekend with a rear LED light flashing away as he rode round! 🙂
Anyone else take lights with them when daylight riding?
Yes.
Dappled sunlight in country lanes is a nightmare to judge distances, see cyclists (especially if they're wearing dark clothing) and you get blinding shafts of sunlight through the trees sometimes too.
Being a cyclist, the law really doesn't give a shit about you at the best of times but it's wise not to give motorists too much ammo to use against you.
As it happens, I also always have my car lights on as well. Why doesn't every car have running lights a la Volvo? Seems a perfectly logical thing to do to me.
All new ones do now. Have done for a while.
xcgb - MemberAnyone else take lights with them when daylight riding?
Yep. Lights stay on the bike all the time and are turned on unless it's bright sunshine. Helps to improve the contrast and batteries last for hours and hours so seems stupid not to.
A bloke caught me up on a bike a few weeks ago and his first comment was 'you've left your lights on'. It was a pretty dull day, but he seemed very surprised when I told him that I tend to put them on in most conditions.
Find it amusing/ridiculous the amount of roadies around who are on expensive bikes with expensive clothing/garmin etc. but seem to begrudge paying more than £0.49 for a rear light. Perhaps a proper light would ruin the weight distribution or aerodynamics of the bike...
🙄
for me it simply depends on light conditions. this time of year the mornings/afternoons are getting darker and the light through the day can be dull and the weather can be crap. A good guide is if a large proportion of car lights are on, maybe you should have lights on. but you can never win.
oooh yer lights blinded me.
oooh put lights on.
one thing that really really gets my goat is cyclists in the dark of night without lights and on the road. Arrgghh.
Even I say,' excuse me sir/lady, one might find it a good idea to get some lights' - or words to that effect.
As it happens, I also always have my car lights on as well. Why doesn't every car have running lights a la Volvo? Seems a perfectly logical thing to do to me.
The EU have ruled that ALL new cars most have daylight running lights, they make sense some of the time, but they can cause issues of there own.
It is perfectly possible to use light to hide a car if the sun is in the right place in the sky. I believe there were complaints from motorcyclists about cars not seeing them? There is also the issue of drivers, as per this case, not actually bothering to look!!!!!
If you go back far enough, i believe the CTC argued against bike lights because they would remove the onus from car drivers to actually bother looking. Whilst it seems a stupid thing to argue about there is a grain of truth, most things that makes car drivers lives easier actually makes everyone elses lives worse, simply allows the car drivers to drive with less care.
I was coming home from a off road ride and it was a bit grey so yes maybe she had a point but i wont be taking a set of lights every time i go up on the hills!
(maybe a headtorch is an idea)
Find it amusing/ridiculous the amount of roadies around who are on expensive bikes with expensive clothing/garmin etc. but seem to begrudge paying more than £0.49 for a rear light. Perhaps a proper light would ruin the weight distribution or aerodynamics of the bike...
Why? there is no law that says you have to use lights between sunrise and sunset....
You didn't mention if you were going for the Milk Tray Man approach to styling or were dressed in the usual attire of a litter picker on the M25. It's not just lights that help people to see you after all.
Shame she didn't stop to give a properly reasoned argument as there could be all sorts of other stuff you don't know about, maybe she got knocked off her bike in similar circumstances? or works for that bunch of safety obsessives the HSE. Of course, she could also be the local nutter.
i wont be taking a set of lights every time i go up on the hills!
Why so?
All new ones do now. Have done for a while.
Really? Shows how much attention I've been paying! Will have to observe more closely!
Either way, that's got to be a good thing, IMO.
As mentioned above, lower light conditions at this time of year (and also dappled sunlight in high summer) can be very hard on the eyes in terms of defining distance and/or movement. As such, anything that can help other road users see you as a cyclist has to be a good thing.
There's a very dark section of the Cholderton Rd between Grately and Cholderton that I ride often, and I can't imagine ever wanting to ride down that at any time of the year without at least a rear light on! For mixed on/off road rides, I tend to leave a Moon Shield on my helmet, never notice it's there, but it certainly helps make me stand out more on the road. Just remember to turn it off when you're back in the woods...!
Find it amusing/ridiculous the amount of roadies around who are on expensive bikes with expensive clothing/garmin etc. but seem to begrudge paying more than £0.49 for a rear light. Perhaps a proper light would ruin the weight distribution or aerodynamics of the bike...
Modern super-bright lights on a club ride would blind the guy behind you...
Modern super-bright lights on a club ride would blind the guy behind you...
I thought roadies only ride abreast...
Modern super-bright lights on a club ride would blind the guy behind you...
However, while astride your crabon fribe Fredwagon, clad in only the finest Assos and Sidi, sporting deep section rims for the commute, you'd think they could at least stump up;
A - Some fresh batteries for the rather piss poor light they're using
B - A proper light instead of the ropey single LED with all the brightness of a primary school technology project powered by a potato
The amount of asshats I see on my commute clad in black, racing their way along the Etape du Embankment with pathetic (or no) lights is truly depressing.
The amount of asshats I see on my commute clad in black, racing their way along the Etape du Embankment with pathetic (or no) lights is truly depressing.
Simple
Club riding, maybe leave the lights off. As a group you're pretty visible anyway.
Commuting: do your best impression of an Xmas tree... and keep your eyes out for some ropey driving
Driving to work this morning (8:30, country road, overcast but generally good visibility, areas of tree cover) I passed one cyclist with a flashing rear light, but generally dark clothes. Spotted him from a long way back. Then 30 seconds later passed another who was under the trees. He was wearing a colourful but not flouro top but had no light. I spotted him, but he certainly didn't 'jump out' like the first one did. If I was hungover and on the phone that light could have made all the difference. I agree with the post above that says it's not a legal requirement but it's a very good idea.
I always use a rear light when on the road, and a front when commuting.
Modern super-bright lights on a club ride would blind the guy behind you
You mean like the Smart R1 that has one *bright* LED and two not so bright ones. You can just use the not-so-bright ones so you don't blind riders behind you.
there is no law that says you have to use lights between sunrise and sunset....
It being a legal requirement is very much a secondary (and a very distant second) reason why I use lights.
I've started to use my Flash/Flare lights in daylight - just want people to see me in time, and lights are more effective than hiviz imho
Road bike has one attached permanently, SS winter MTB does as well for night rides) fixie commuter has two on the back... Decent rear lights are cheap and easy to fit, so there's no real excuse not to.
I might not turn it on if I'm riding in glorious sunshine, but more often than not I'll want some active illumination on the roads just to be sure I'm seen, a couple of basic AAA's seem to last ages anyway so you might as well...
Different road users seem to have various ideas about what we should or shouldn't do on the roads and the OP does have a point, he wasn't technically in the wrong at all, but using a light is a prudent measure to improve your general visibility, even when conditions aren't too bad... I can see lights becoming a bit like the Helmet / Hi-viz victim blaming thing...
[I]"...He didn't even have a Helmet/Hi-Viz vest/Lights on..."[/I]
Thus helping to absolve any drivers who might mow you down on straight roads in broad daylight...
Why? there is no law that says you have to use lights between sunrise and sunset....
But if the conditions are poor lights should be used...
Just like this morning and really heavy rain !!
I use my lights all the time on the road as I want to be seen.
But yes Clubrun or group riding is different
i wont be taking a set of lights every time i go up on the hills!
Why so?
Cos I use very old ones with a heavy battery!
So really?
All you guys when riding off road in daylight take a set of lights with you if you are going to touch a road at some point?
Cant say i've ever seen that around my local trails
xcgb - MemberAll you guys when riding off road in daylight take a set of lights with you if you are going to touch a road at some point?
Nope. But, I can totally see the point to it, and if visibility is bad it'd be a good idea even if I don't do it.
I always had the motorbike lights on, it's probably kind of idiotic that I don't on the far more vulnerable pushbike tbh.
"a set of lights" as if it's something cumbersome.
A little Knog flasher, or a Smart R2 is pretty small and unobtrustive, either attached to the bike, my camelbak or my helmet. You may well not notice it on the trails as there aren't many people who use rear lights on the trails!
All you guys when riding off road in daylight take a set of lights with you if you are going to touch a road at some point
No, but I do have a very small, very light, very bright helmet light on the back of my helmet for the sort of ride that may see me linking up bridleways/trails with the odd road section, especially if it's one of those dark, shaded roads as mentioned above. (Not for big days in the wide open spaces or trail centre stuff, though.)
All you guys when riding off road in daylight take a set of lights with you if you are going to touch a road at some point?
I thought we established that STWers all drive to the trail in their Audi?
But if the conditions are poor lights should be used...Just like this morning and really heavy rain !!
read the law.
There is no need to use lights, even if the conditions are crap between sunrise and sunset.
[url= http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/regulations/lighting-regulations ]http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/regulations/lighting-regulations[/url]
Personnally i will use lights if it is murky, but the onus is always on drivers to look wtf they are going!!! My having lights or not having lights isn't an excuse, in the same way as the Kiwi judge recently came out and said all cyclists should wear hi-viz, failing to notice that the deceased was wearing hi-viz!
[url= http://road.cc/content/news/77369-coroner-cyclists-have-duty-other-road-users-wear-high-viz ]http://road.cc/content/news/77369-coroner-cyclists-have-duty-other-road-users-wear-high-viz[/url]
Thei Highway Code recommends bright clothing reflective strips and even lights when riding in poor light or visibility for cyclists and horse riders.
However, the speed at which some people drive down country lanes does mean that if around a bend there is a horse on your side and a cyclist and a car coming at you on the other you are ffffffff'd
However, the speed at which some people drive down country lanes does mean that if around a bend there is a horse on your side and a cyclist and a car coming at you on the other you are ffffffff'd
Yes but that's down to the long forgotten principle of 'you should be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear'.
I was cycling home once, around a long left hand bend, when a car decided to overtake me despite the double continuous white lines. As he got next to me a cyclist appeared the other way.
Being overtaken by a car.
Being overtaken by a motorbike. 😯
All you guys when riding off road in daylight take a set of lights with you if you are going to touch a road at some point?
I thought we established that STWers all drive to the trail in their Audi?
My wife had the Audi that day
@ Mrmo; I think that's the thing, anything cyclists might generally choose to do to exceed the [I]"Minimum statndard"[/I] in terms of PPE or visibility, over time comes does to be seen as actually being the "De-facto" minimum standard by drivers and even the authorities to a certain extent...
Essentially these are discretionary, compensating measures, cyclists adopt in trying to offset the increasingly poor standards displayed by many drivers now.
But it's not actually a cyclists duty or responsibility to accommodate other road users shortcomings.
Ultimately its not a principle worth dying for (I'll just use my judgement and decide when to put my lights on, probably erring on the side of caution), but the number of drivers I know who think it's a cyclists responsibility to be seen, more than it is their responsibility to actually look, is quite worrying...
So really?
All you guys when riding off road in daylight take a set of lights with you if you are going to touch a road at some point?Cant say I've ever seen that around my local trails
Depends really, if I go out for a late afternoon ride where a puncture or mechanical might put me behind schedule and cause me to be riding home in dwindling light, I'll often stick one of these in my pack just in case:
[img] 
[/img]
If I'm heading out earlier in the day for an MTB ride, with a bit of on road riding, if the weather looks good, and the odds are good that I'll be home well before dark then no I probably won't take any emergency lights...
For dingy winter rides I'll be on my SS which has a rear LED permanently attached anyway, if it's appropriate to the conditions, yeah I'll switch it on for road sections...
cookeaa has beaten me to it really interms of the fact there are some very cheap, very light but pretty bright 'be seen' lights out there. I have a pair of these permanently attached to my 'everyday' roadbike:
http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/LISLSLEDBL/skull_led_bicycle_light
I nearly cut across a cyclist's path the other evening just as it was getting a bit 'dusky' as I was concentrating on avoiding an old dear crossing the road at the junction. He was in lurid blue and pink (not lampre) jersey but still easily missed on an open suburban road, a front light I'm sure would've caught my eye. I followed him and drove past him as he turned into his drive about 100 yards from my house. I thought about stopping and giving him some friendly 'cyclist to cyclist' advice but decided against it (that's what STW is for 😛 ).
As it happens, I also always have my car lights on as well. Why doesn't every car have running lights a la Volvo? Seems a perfectly logical thing to do to me.
really shouldn't be necessary for cars to have lights on in daytime* & makes it that much harder to spot more vulnerable road users if everyone has their lights on, a tree in a desert is easy to spot a tree in a forest less so
* assuming normal visibility not foggy etc
mrmo - MemberWhy? there is no law that says you have to use lights between sunrise and sunset....
What does the law have to do with it? I'd rather be seen and avoided than argue the wrongs and rights of the law from my hospital bed.
My experience when driving has shown (IMO) that cyclists are a lot more visible if they have a decent light on; even between sunrise and sunset.
I sometimes put my car lights on during the daytime too!! Crazy, I know, but it makes my dull grey car easier to spot on a dull day against a dull road and a dull cloudy sky. Again, I do this as from experience; I have noticed that similar coloured cars around me are not so obvious in dull conditions.
cookeaa - Member
Road bike has one attached permanently, SS winter MTB does as well for night rides) fixie commuter has two on the back... Decent rear lights are cheap and easy to fit, so there's no real excuse not to.I might not turn it on if I'm riding in glorious sunshine, but more often than not I'll want some active illumination on the roads just to be sure I'm seen, a couple of basic AAA's seem to last ages anyway so you might as well...
This is pretty much my view on it.
My road bike has them permanently attached (2 lights).
My Inbred has a Cateye mount on the seatpost permanently and if I am using it where I might encounter road sections (so anywhere apart from trail centres/rides round Thetford etc) I will transfer a light from the road bike, just in case.
Agree, i have lights i do use them as and when not a permenant feature though, but it is not for me to have to use lights or wear hi viz. All that is being done is making cycling appear ever less safe. Many cyclists now wear helmets, which in reality do far less than the car not hitting you would do. Many cyclists use lights in daylight, which again are far less effective than drivers actually looking where they are going!!!
As most drivers are crap, if they start to expect to see a red light in daylight then that is what they will look for and if you haven't got a light on, well that's your fault if you get hit! Obviously the driver isn't at fault!!!!! It is the big issue i have with cycle paths, there is no possibility of every route being served by a cycle path, there will always be a need to use roads, but if drivers believe that cyclists have no right to the road because there are cyclepaths, and as demonstrated by some drivers, decide to run cyclists off the road, who is actually benefiting by having cycle paths??
Its a bit like saying you should wear a cycle helmet and mitigate the risk of damage, but no one levels the same suggestion to car drivers as the same would hold true.
It is the big issue i have with cycle paths, there is no possibility of every route being served by a cycle path, there will always be a need to use roads, but if drivers believe that cyclists have no right to the road because there are cyclepaths, and as demonstrated by some drivers, decide to run cyclists off the road, who is actually benefiting by having cycle paths??
A valid concern, but I'd point out that cyclists still use the roads (where they need to) in the Netherlands and receive a lot less hostility than we do because the drivers there are much much more likely to also regularly use bikes.
Lights stay on the bike all the time and are turned on unless it's bright sunshine.
Actually I find that bright days can be when it's most important as that's when you get the biggest difference between light levels in and out of shade.
I shout at cyclists re lights.
It can be a grey day, dull drab clothing and bingo.
Why are cars now being released with day running lights? To be seen. Grey car...grey day...abit of rain..
Things are sliding inexorably towards a point where it's 'our fault' for being hit. No, actually, IT ISN'T.
1. The speed limit is the MAXIMUM speed, set for when all conditions are perfect, car and driver in perfect condition. It is not the expected speed, nor the minimum speed.
2. The Highway Code also helpfully introduces this "Only go so fast as to be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear".
3. Positioning is key. Ride in primary or secondary. Wear what the **** you like - it makes little difference. I was knocked off in 1983 by a driver who "didn't see" me. For a joke that day I was wearing pink footless tights, bright blue hotpants with white edging, dark blue and yellow striped top. Didn't see me? Really?
I believe that each collision should be judged on its own merits, however, if the test for dangerous driving is "driving far below the standard expected of a competent driver" then, using the example above, maintaining one's speed when vision is impaired by sun dappling through overhead trees has to be dangerous driving. The driver should be charged and prosecuted as such.
All this shilly-shallying around lights and clothing is simply car culture avoiding the elephant in the room ... drivers need to slow the **** down and have consideration for other road users.
And breathe...
@grahams, IF motorists become cyclists and pedestrians then there is hope. If the sectarianism continues and you have tribal motorists/cyclists then i feel there is little hope.
Pessimistic maybe?
Any driver that stops and tells me that I should be riding with lights during normal daylight hours will get told to **** off. I really can't believe how many people think that they're necessary.
At dusk and during after sundown I obviously use lights and reflective clothing.
I've had a couple of cyclists swear at me. I asked one to repeat it at the lights as I didnt fancy my insurance paying out for a dick riding at dusk in dark clothing. He jept quiet.
Risk your life but not near my car please.
Drivers can be utter dicks but you also get alot of grown men on bikes acting like spoilt children. Sorry.
I think clothing is generally more imortant where visibility is concerned. People will usually see you whatever the colour but they make high viz vests bright orange or yellow for a reason. Im always in a red top and have a bright orange pack.
Rainy days, shaded routes or poor viz days being the exception, and ill have a light for days like that.
That woman probably has a go at every one, has lots of bad days and generally not a great person to be around.
Karinofnine hits the nail on the head.
I really can't believe how many people think that they're necessary.
It's not a question of "necessary", it's a question of "potentially make you safer".
I was cycling a few days ago in bright sunshine on a busy road towards a bit of dense tree cover. It was sufficiently bright out that you could see very little of what was under the trees as you approached. Now a good driver would adjust their speed accordingly, but - and I don't know if you've noticed - [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-23970047 ] there are a lot of very bad drivers out there[/url], and I'll take being alive over being right anyday.
I'd have told her where to go, unless of course you had camouflage clothes and your bike is painted camo style!
I get people driving towards me on single track country lanes who do not even slow down a bit... Some wing mirrors come REAL close and after they pass I think maybe they didn't even see me? Texting and being on the phone are still commonplace and sooooo dangerous.
I have distant memory of cycling from Leeds to London then onto Brighton circa 1983 fantastic care free trip as were the weekend rides from Leeds to Ilkley. The only aspiration was some campag gears but they were so far out of reach you didn't really give it much thought.
There we're admittedly half the vehicles on the road there are today but helmets and hi viz weren't invented, gore text was still a marketing dream and lights meant every readies with batteries as big as your wrist or dynamos that could stop yuo down hill.
So cycling meant a t shirt and a pair of shorts and it was brilliant.
Also missing though was the presumtion that getting from A to B by any other than a car was the exception that need some kind of trainng, expensive gear the use of which should be monitored by self appointed bike police.
The point of this waffle is that I wouldn't like to see cycling restricted to those who can afford the official gear as sactioned by this weeks marketing spin.
OP, yes almost always (unless it's super bright and sunny). Why wouldn't you?
Loved this Brakes!
brakes - Member
use your bell
don't use your bell
your lights aren't bright enough
your lights are too bright
get out of the gutter
get in the gutter
you shouldn't be on the road
you should be on the road
blah
don't blah
I stick lights on during the day if it's a bit foggy but that's it. Can't recollect a car driver failing to see me through lack of lights.
i got told by some old bugger one night that my (Deal extreme 700lm) bars lamp was too bright and that he couldn't see if there were any cars behind me and therefore he couldn't pull out across the front of me! (Turning right, from a road on my left)
thats right kids, he genuinely complained i had lights on, in the night, and it prevented him from cutting me up. Im not an angry person, but if i hadn't been stunned into speechlessness he would have had a flurry of abuse sufficient to turn his ticker! what a wizards sleeve!
Cos I use very old ones with a heavy battery!
Radical idea: buy some new ones with a light battery...
Lights on! Simples!
Why wouldn't you?