what? Too good as in they have evolved to become exactly the right tool for the job. That’s not showing common sense at all. Just buy an older one or one with less progressive geometry. By that logic we should be riding MTB’s on the road bits because road bikes are too good at that
I mean, I think I've written the same thing about 3 times now to try and simplify it, I don't think I can dumb it down any more, so yea, go with what you think I said 👍
You just like gravel bikes and that’s fine. I get what you’re saying, I just don’t agree and I’m perhaps taking the piss slightly 😉 I’ve owned a couple and just find them to be a bit shit for me. Offering the OP a different take. Decent XC HT or rigid MTB.
Too good as in they have evolved to become exactly the right tool for the job. That’s not showing common sense at all. Just buy an older one or one with less progressive geometry.
Look it’s all just larks outside and a change of scene so don’t take me too seriously. I’ve done loads of rides on a gravel bike with mates on hardtails. Send seems to work just fine. When I buy another hardtail I’ll be on here going on about how great it it
But here is the flaw in your argument
Surely the perfect mountain bike could convert any off road into feeling like it was riding on the road. Every lump squashed and perfect traction. But might that not be boring
So some times I ride my gravel bike and have to really work the bike round the the local roots. It needs loads of rider input and my brain is flat out planning a route. On my MTB i can just point and pedal
Both have there charm but surely you can see that the MTB isn’t always best here
For me that’s where a rigid MTB such as a Stooge comes in. That or a HT that isn’t of the LLS variety. I totally get that some folk like gravel bikes, just trying to give the OP the view from the other side. I’ve owned a couple (NS RAG, Genesis Fugio) and found them lacking for the task. Good on the roads and mild off road. Bone jarring and unpleasant once things get mildly interesting. As I said in a previous post, all about where compromise works for the individual.
My gravel bike has become my most used bike. It’s a road bike for roads and unsealed roads, and it’s quick and comfy on both of those.
If I go out for 30-50 miles, for example, it’ll spend half of the ride on tarmac at 2mph or so less than a road bike, and link up with old railway lines or surfaced bridleways, a bit like @13thfloormonk
A lot of people on this thread sound like they are using their ‘gravel’ bikes off road on trails with roots, rocks, mud and little like old school hard tails or CX bikes. I bought a Kona Jake 20 years ago to do the same, loved it, and then something a bit more capable and more like a drop bar rigid mountain bike in a Salsa Fargo. Neither riding was really anything like the kind of thing I’m using my gravel bike for, and I don’t think that’s what gravel riding is to most people away from this thread.
Both have there charm but surely you can see that the MTB isn’t always best here
It all depends who is riding it and what they like riding and feel is the best. Different bikes will be better worse for all different reasons, some measurable i.e. speed, others not i.e. comfort or confidence.
If you are not after outright speed then choices of bike become more down to whatever you like riding. My only bike is a fixed gear because that is what I enjoy riding the most. Is it always the best bike, no it is probably the opposite and pretty much always the worst bike other than going uphill on tarmac.
@chiefgrooveguru I’m 185cm. Longer legs than torso. I checked geometry figures for the wheelbase and the canyon was 1029mm and the inbred 1089. So 60mm difference. Probably more visual difference due to the factory 110mm stem on the canyon and the 50mm stem I fitted to the inbred. I don’t like dropper posts; I’ve tried them and they’re not for me. I don’t think I’d want the additional mental processing of operating one during a cyclocross race either. I realise the OP was talking about gravel but no one has mentioned suspension in any detail yet. I ended up racing for a local shop team on a Trek Boone with the front and rear isospeed pivots. It helps a little to smooth things under seated pedalling at the back, but the front didn’t do much noticeable. Trek have dropped it now. I also tried Lauf forks on my spare bike; Trek Crockett, but whilst they were useful on straight and fast sections, they allowed the front wheel to straighten up almost gyroscopically in the tighter turns of a cyclocross course and I hated that.
https://flic.kr/p/2mMN7jQ
What’s it like doing hops and drops and jumps with drop bars? Not big stuff, just the fun messing about, getting a small distance off the ground
https://giphy.com/gifs/d1M2hNSeK5ypXlSNlX
It's sketchy, but lots of fun. Personally I enjoy trails which are a bit technical and anything flowy on the gravel bike. It's a different experience to the MTB; slower in places but exhilarating and it really hones your skills. I vastly prefer XC on the gravel bike compared to my hardtail, but to be fair that is very LLand S and bought for a different kind of riding
What have you decided OP?
FWIW, I think it just comes down to whether you want a gravel bike or an XC bike - and then you fine tune the riding and routes to suit the bike.
That Chisel 29 does look great though, I wonder if there’s much real world difference between something like that locked out with gravel tyres, and a gravel bike. Other than the more aero position on the drops. I’ve never had a proper xc MTB so not sure how it would feel (body position/efficiency wise) compared with the hardcore hardtail/enduro bikes I’ve always had.
To me the difference is an MTB is comfortable when pushing on and riding quickly. Trying to bimble on a modern bike with a long reach and wide bars gives me a crick in my neck/shoulders after a few hours. E.g. if I take the singlespeed on a long ride involving a lot of flat road / gravel where it's spinning out. Not a problem when giving it the beans though (more movement, more engaged core/muscles).
On the gravel bike I can bimble for days as it's more comfortable with it's narrow bars and variety of hand positions. It's quicker 95% of the time too.
I did ~300 miles road/off-road on my SS over a couple of days and it made my hands go numb to badly the feeling didn't come back for months. There's a lot to be said for having a variety of hand positions!
If going with an XC bike and riding a lot of flat/road I'd say sod fashion and go with a narrow-ish bar (680-710mm) and either a 2x setup or a 38t chainring.
I don’t like dropper posts; I’ve tried them and they’re not for me.
I think dropper posts are a useful line in the sand, if you want/need one, you're probably as well with an MTB as you're likely in the sort of terrain where bigger tyres and flat bars are beneficial?
I think dropper posts are a useful line in the sand, if you want/need one, you’re probably as well with an MTB as you’re likely in the sort of terrain where bigger tyres and flat bars are beneficial?
That was my opinion of 50mm+ tyres.
Outside of some very niche use cases like the Tour Divide in the USA where you're going to ride on rocky mountain singletrack for 3 days then a straight flat road for 3 days the usefulness of drop bars diminishes massively. It's not that they can't do technical riding, they're just not optimal. And unless you've got to ride 1000miles to get to the fun bit the flat bars make more sense.
I think dropper posts are a useful line in the sand
Ha! And for me it's (currently) front suspension. When I bought my Topstone I avoided the Lefty version as being too "similar" to my hardtail. Those cheap droppers at Wiggle keep catching my eye, though I suspect you're right.
gravel bike is never going to be the most efficient bike for longer distances off-road unless the ‘off-road’ is basically no rougher than a lot of country lanes.
This sums it up for me. Gravel bikes, designed primarily around long stretches of hard packed gravel, perfect around the new forest etc.
This isn't enough for people and so a lot of this thread is complaints that gravel bikes aren't as good as an MTB off-road.
Course they're not, they're not designed for that, just like a road bike doesn't belong at a trail centre.
I don't get the proliferation of gravel bikes with suspension and dropper posts. It's just the futile quest for the holy grail of bikes - one bike to do everything.
That's never going to happen, accept the compromise and the n+1 that comes with it....or just become a full time roadie.
Ha! And for me it’s (currently) front suspension.
Yep, that's my line in the sand too - I wouldn't have my gravel bike without a dropper though. Definitely helps me move my weight around when it's dropped slightly, something I couldn't do when the saddle's at maximum height for climbing/roadie-ing efficiency. I don't need the whole 150mm of drop I've got but it was what I spare at the time I built it up.
Current debate with my own gravel bike is tyres: frequently thinking about changing my 700x50 G-One Ultrabites for something 29x2.2/2.4 for added comfort and ability, but I feel constrained by wanting/needing full length guards. I expect if/when I swap to wider tyres it'll be the final nail in the coffin for my hardtail.
Those cheap droppers at Wiggle keep catching my eye
Oh? Any 27.2mm ones I should be aware of?
I have been thinking one with an under-saddle lever could suit me quite well.
Yeah, but let’s face it, in a world of blurred lines, the Topstone Lefty is about as fuzzy as the memories of an early 20s night out.
🙂
When I bought my Topstone I avoided the Lefty version as being too “similar” to my hardtail.
Yep, i sold my HT as a result, but don't miss it for the type of riding I do on the Lefty. Although I do ride the Diverge more than the Topstone, better for all that windfarm gravel and road there and back.. 🙂
That’s never going to happen, accept the compromise and the n+1 that comes with it
Or just actually really accept the compromise and ride the same bike everywhere.
Oh? Any 27.2mm ones I should be aware of?
A week or so ago they were only £49.99 with remote lever and cable. Bought one for Mrs.S. Wish I'd bought two now!
@chakapingthey have 27.2 but internal routing only.
A week or so ago they were only £49.99 with remote lever and cable. Bought one for Mrs.S. Wish I’d bought two now!
Thanks both.
I'm gonna hang on for a cheap under saddle lever one at some point. May have to wait for someone to develop the product obvs.
I like the idea of being able to swap the post on quickly for specific rides.
@chakaping - https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/xlc-dropper-sp-t09-telescopic-seatpost/136825528/p?
Any good to you?
That’s never going to happen, accept the compromise and the n+1 that comes with it….or just become a full time roadie.
But what happens after you've bought your aero bike to hit that sweet, smooth tarmac, been for a ride and realised that the smooth tarmac is actually quite lumpy, scarred and full of holes, especially when riding away from main roads? Do you buy something a little less stiff and aero? Maybe an endurance road bike? Maybe an endurance road bike with wider tyres? Or perhaps a road biased gravel bike? 😀
Interesting stuff! When I returned to MTBing in 2009 I lasted about 18 months before concluding that that a dropper was essential, not because my local riding is particularly gnarly but because I prefer riding a bike with the saddle down and only put it up when I need to (because my legs are getting more tired standing than sitting). One day I shall have some time to ride whimsically across the countryside seeing where I end up but right now I’m typing this in a soft play (I’ve got tired of the slides being too small and dangerously fast at my size) which rather sums it up…
Hence the singlespeed hardtail being the current weapon of choice, in that smiles vs miles, or a bit of pain for some gain, (insert rhyme of choice), approach to riding that I’m currently forced into.
I imagine a singlespeed gravel bike would be a foolish thing around here because no-one has the strength to to climb our steeper bridleways on a bike that has useful road gearing. Would probably work well for Northants though (everything I thought was a big hill when a child now looks like a moderate incline!)
Any good to you?
Cheers, that would be spot on - if I hadn't spent all my money on Chiggle bargains already 😀
Not an urgent need for me ATM anyway.
Or just actually really accept the compromise and ride the same bike everywhere.
That’s where I am at now tbh. Don’t have the cash or space for more than one. Therefore I pick the one that covers the most bases. Road riding is a necessary evil for me so I go HT with around 130mm travel and then rigid and back. Occasionally think a short travel full sus would be best. In the HT phase at the moment. Least number of compromises for most amount of fun for me.
What have you decided OP?
FWIW, I think it just comes down to whether you want a gravel bike or an XC bike – and then you fine tune the riding and routes to suit the bike.
Nothing decided yet 🙂 first going to check out the bridleways and tow paths in the area since I haven't ridden them for a few years - from memory it feels like a gravel would be fine though and would help spice up the otherwise flat trails, so that will probably be the route I take.
All I've really settled on is that the Sommet's days are probably numbered if I can actually find a buyer for it in the current market. If it sells then use that cash to get a gravel bike. Then in the future a trail/downcountry 29er for everything else, since sadly my riding ability is no longer gnar enough for big bikes!
Or maybe I'll decide the local off road isn't worth it and go rogue with a road bike again..
If going with an XC bike and riding a lot of flat/road I’d say sod fashion and go with a narrow-ish bar (680-710mm) and either a 2x setup or a 38t chainring.
Didn't mention this when bleating about my various bikes. I'm big and have wide shoulders so have 800mm bars on both my proper MTB's. Same came on the Whippet but it felt a bit wrong. My XC Cube had the bars cut down to 740mm and that feels spot on for gentler terrain.
@jj55 @chiefgrooveguru I rode the Lost Lanes Central #26 on my 65” geared singlespeed last week. Bloody hell the wind nearly broke me. I added another 10 miles on due to riding to and from the start.
https://flic.kr/p/2pm14yq
The wold-esque hills aren’t like the south wales valleys I’m used to.
If going with an XC bike and riding a lot of flat/road I’d say sod fashion and go with a narrow-ish bar (680-710mm)
Still way too wide for me. I ride road and gravel with riser bars and they are 580mm wide as that puts my arms in a better position which doesn't really feel different to drop bar width and while I am sitting slightly more upright the stopwatch shows the difference in my average times between risers and drops is negligible.
Managed to get out for an explore today. This was about as rough as it gets just for a couple of short sections. Probably be fine on a gravel bike then!
Surprisingly the Sommet actually didn't suck nearly as much as I thought it would on the flat/pedally bits and towpaths. It's just the linking road sections and "climbs" it really wasn't much fun on. So still a bit undecided tbh! Not sure I'm ready to sell it yet, could probably just build it up lighter with less draggy tyres and it'd be fine.
definitely fine on a gravel bike .......
I’ve been curious about having some kind of rigid off-road bike for years
I've ended up with a Cotic Cascade, which is basically a rigid MTB. I decided against drop bars because I was mostly going to be riding it on local moors with (very) occasional commuting duties and I struggle to get comfortable on the drops.
I've fitted it with Jones Bars which work really well for me, lots of control on singletrack and plenty of hand positions for longer rides. My tyre choice is compromised everywhere at this time of year, but when it had DHF/DHRs on it was a hoot.
Managed to get out for an explore today. This was about as rough as it gets just for a couple of short sections. Probably be fine on a gravel bike then!
Prime gravel bike territory. You could even try to bunnyhop that little stick 😀
These are a bloody bargain in the sale - and really good bikes.
Boardman ADV 8.9 Mens Adventure Bike - S, M, L, XL Frames | Halfords UK
That does look great, haven't seen anything else under a grand with hydraulic brakes or GRX. I've got my frame up for sale so will see if anyone bites. Wrong time of the year I guess but we'll see, can't get them from CRC/wiggle in a medium any more so that's slightly in my favour 🙂