I'm soon to be in the market for a new vehicle but want something pretty bike specific, ie able to carry 2 bikes inside & sleep 2 & have basic cooking,washing amenities , as well as being compact enough for a daily driver.
I've seen the Hannah Barnes/ Vanguard conversion & like the garage across the back idea but am looking for ideas for the living area
Probably get a LWB Vito or Vivaro (don't want to pay badge tax for a VW) .Sprinter based adventure vans are very appealing but possibly a touch excessive for what will mostly be a 'weekend' van so no motor home suggestions please
We have a Mazda Bongo. TBH it's not great for carry bikes inside (although it can be done, and reasonably easy to set-up to do so and include a bed) but we have a Thule Backpack rack on the back which carries up to four bikes.
Upsides:
- Great community (read lots of info available)
- Lots of parts off similar Mazda/Ford cars (specifically Mondeos and Rangers)
- Pretty simple
- A damn sight cheaper and better to drive (and arguably more reliable) than VWs of the same age
- Choice of 2WD or 4WD and petrol or diesel (although petrols are only 2WD)
- Raising roof genuinely makes van a lot bigger
- Takes up a similar amount of room on the drive as a Mondeo
Downsides:
- Grey imports means certain parts are hard to get hold of
- Grey imports means all the sealing underneath is aftermarket - rust can be an issue
- They're all pretty old now - 1995 - 2005-ish
- They're thirsty - you're doing well if you get 30mpg
Ours, which has taken us down to Croatia and the previous owner to southern Spain:
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8321/7987040708_6cda8377f4_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8321/7987040708_6cda8377f4_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/daMEWq ]Bongo takes a break from the Croatian coast road[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/pimpmasterjazz/ ]Neil Cain[/url], on Flickr
Looks good, I have looked at these but having the bikes inside is the main priority for me...
If you get a LWB then you can put the garage at the back for the bikes and a normal conversion will still fit in the front bit.
Absolutely no use to you but I'm looking for a Berlingo Multispace that will be able to hold my bike and me plus camping gear as well as be used as daily driver.
The rest of the clan isn't ready for sleeping in a car yet so I've a tent and camping kit for that eventuality - the bikes will stay in the car when we are sleeping in the tent.
hard to find something small, and with room for 2 people to sleep with 2 bikes inside
Km79, keep coming back to this conclusion, spending lots of time with graph paper & van dimension tables!
The Berlingo is easily converted into a small solo camper, you can get a single bed/bunk down the passenger side (extending over fold flat passenger seat) with enough storage for your gear inside and the bike down the drivers side with all the rear seats out. A bit cramped but comfortable, at 6'4" it was fine for me. If you add a roofbox and hang a tarp to make an awning it is more space than you need.
Should be possible with a LWB Vivaro, depends what you mean by washing facilities. I doubt you'd get a shower inside.
LWB T5 and Vivaro examples from Vanguard.
https://vanguardconversions.wordpress.com/2014/07/27/vw-t5-lwb-camper-with-mtb-garage/
https://vanguardconversions.wordpress.com/2014/05/18/mtb-camper-van/
Just wish I could have one as my only vehicle but restricted by work.
Yup, that was kind of my thinking - will be dead easy for a single person...not so great with 2 people and the requirement for a few more 'luxuries'...
To be honest, it's only going to be used for a single person camping (though I can live in hope...)
As mentioned, I like the Vanguard conversions though personally I'm more drawn to a slide out side bench/bed than a Rock'n'Roll bed - better for slouching on imho!
Washing facilities means small sink! I've been camping all my life so am used to minimal luxuries but I'd like something a bit more comfy for sitting around in that doesn't repuire any setting up
To be honest, it's only going to be used for a single person camping (though I can live in hope...)
As mentioned, I like the Vanguard conversions though personally I'm more drawn to a slide out side bench/bed than a Rock'n'Roll bed - better for slouching on imho!
I'd be looking at a Berlingo or Landy 110/130 conversion. Above Bongo would do everything you describe with no issues, but seems a lot of extra van to lug around. Duncan Philpott had a cracking conversion for following the DH WC (can't find the better shots I'm thinking of):
As ever, I'm going to say Amdro Angel T5 conversion kit. Fixed boot space will take an MTB with the front wheel off and will probably take two if you take all the wheels off (it'll definitely take two road bikes and a LOT of other crap).
Living space bit has tonnes of space for two, double bed, stove, fridge, sink. Very comfortable for slouching 🙂
I looked into this for a long time.
Lwb vivaro just about cuts it but still very cramped. And I wanted room for a family of 4 ....Not that I have a family of 4 but I see growth on the horizon.
I'm with you bikes go on the inside as a rule.id sleep outside before the bikes go outside.....
Ended up with an lwb iveco daily with twice the features twice the space , half the milage and 1/4 of the price of a comparable vw.
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Sleeps 4adults + child( downside only travels 3) . The boot will take 4 adult bikes a generator , BBQ , table , chairs + any other crap you want.
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Everything has its drawbacks. Small van where everything just about fits means dismantling bikes and moving bags and beds etc just to make her dinner. Or bed comes in a kit format.i came from a berlingo which was ideal for 1+bike if you ate out. It was shite for 2 sleeping in the back with no bikes.
[quote=Pimpmaster Jazz ]To be honest, it's only going to be used for a single person camping (though I can live in hope...)
As mentioned, I like the Vanguard conversions though personally I'm more drawn to a slide out side bench/bed than a Rock'n'Roll bed - better for slouching on imho!
I'd be looking at a Berlingo or Landy 110/130 conversion. Above Bongo would do everything you describe with no issues, but seems a lot of extra van to lug around. Duncan Philpott had a cracking conversion for following the DH WC (can't find the better shots I'm thinking of):
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http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/yet-another-stealth-campervery-pic-heavy
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Have a look at nu venture, nu surf, romahome, older autosleeper duo/rambler,
On autotrader you can search motorhomes by length
I think 2 people and bikes inside and daily driver will be a challenge - you'll always be trading daily car behavior vs motorhome facilities. (Mind you by bike bagging into the front seats you might manage it in a berlingo/citreon nu venture base)
http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/used-motorhomes/romahome
http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/used-motorhomes/nu-venture
https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/reviews/motorhomes/details/head-to-head-motorhome-test-nu-venture-nu-surf-v-romahome-r20/899568
Oh and before you all jump down my throat for not meeting ops requirements of small....My point was prioritise your must haves and design to that.
Personally I find the amdro conversion a bit Tetris like. - we have all the features but you need to assemble the airfix kit in the back of the van and put everything in the right place before you an use it. Does bring the insurance down though.
I have a SWB T4 poptop camper, I can carry 3-4 bikes inside, either fully assembled with the front wheels on the floor and the rears on the (covered) camper seat/R&R Bed. Or wheels out with frames vertical (bars and forks on the floor) bungeed to the back of the passenger seat.
When camping though I tend to put them on a towbar rack outside, but I could sleep in the poptop roof with the bikes still inside.
With only one bike I can carry it, wheels out, upright against the passenger seat back and have the van downstairs bed down. But its a pain moving about trying not to touch the chain, mud etc and get filthy.
So if you can get a camper with the rear seats quite a way back then this may work for you.
Is always going to be a compromise with a small van that you want to use as a daily driver too. You just have to choose on whether the compromise is going to be in carrying bikes or camping comfortably. VW tax aside, they appear to make the right size vans 😉
I still get bemused on all these threads and think
"does no-one here know about the Nissan Elgrand"
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I have what I consider a small MTB friendly camper. Any smaller and you are into the realms of 'small camper with bike rack outside' or 'bike van, with provision for a bed' i.e. not a camper.
Mine is the 6m version of Trailrats, conversion halfway done. Its towing mule first, camper second, bike van third, and the compromise is front wheel and saddles off to get the bikes in. (stand vertically in the garage)
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That's it (or certainly very similar) BoardinBob.
Just noticed the Aeropress pocket - priorities! 😆
A pop top is a good compromise to space requirements. Also means I can stand up in the van....That was another requirement
Believe it or not I didn't set out to buy an iveco.ive had many a back and forth with spooky about how they ain't a good buy as a van but It just popped up ready built at a good price needing "tidying up" for a second go at life and cheap to insure/easy to work on when I looked into the details. Parts are pricy and economy is dire....But it is 2300kg empty.....
I'd be looking for a high roof rather than LWB (both ideally I suppose!), if you can get a garage with sleeping area for two above it in the roof height that's a big part of the most important points covered. An awning with pop up tables could then cover cooking, captain seats for your seating would leave a bit of usable room in the back for a other essentials too.
The mess vans look like a great point to start to me.
MWB Transit here with separate bike workshop that holds 2 bikes mobi & all necessary kit in it, then in living space enough space to sleep 2, swivel fitted to passenger double seat, small worktop and drawers plus storage under bed & a diesel heater. I am one of those awkward people who wont have a van and carry bikes on a rack on the back of it + I know they are secure at night. Happy to email pics if required.
Would love to see some pics, Stranga. Email in profile if you don't want to post them here.
Also interested Stranga... Post a few here?
Charles Hawtrey?
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"does no-one here know about the Nissan Elgrand"
given it has neither a bed, nor an MTB garage, and is in effect a mildly posh galaxy, I'm not sure what relevance it has
As said all those requirements mean a compromise. I could fit 4 bikes in my California with front Wheeels off or both off and stacked together easily. That left me enough space for 2 to cook eat etc in comfort and sleep upstairs in pop roof. It also fitted in a normal garage and drove OK. They are spectacularly expensive, have roof rot and dubious 180 engines as well as a bit of a scene which I disliked.
Swb Peugeot boxer. The boot is Half height but fits 3 bikes width ways with front wheels off(wheels go in the boot too). L shape seating with kitchen unit behind front seats.
Van is 6ft wide so double bed goes widthways, gives a lot more room. At 5"8 I can stand up to cook etc....even with low roof.
If you have a boot make sure it's big enough for muddy kit too, keeps the living bit so much nicer!
Boxer looks big in comparison but is no longer than lwb vivaro or T5
Length might be similar but in all other areas its a bigger beast than the Vivaro/T5, even the small models feel more like a Transit, and the XLWB versions give the biggest Sprinters and Ivecos something to worry about.
They are considerably wider, and the walls are much straighter so its probably 60cm wider at the roof on the hightop, it also goes up to 4250kg.
Vivaro and T5 tops out between 3-3200kg
Lots more to think about, interested to know what it's like living with the'bigger' vans... I keep thinking about a swb sprinter... Thought about a pop top too, tempting & practical but does put a sizeable hole in the budget!
I'm curious, what sort of price range would I be looking at to buy a reasonable van and finish it to a decent spec like those up^^^^?
Can the issue of parking overnight with the bikes on the outside not be mitigated by a heavy duty lock?
I'm currently looking at a transit custom, probably lwb double cab, will take bikes in the back, and long enough to sleep in. For proper space, may look at converting and removing the rear seats in the future.
Ideal would be a tourneo custom with fokding/removable seats, but insurance is astronomical due to more than 7 seats
Can the issue of parking overnight with the bikes on the outside not be mitigated by a heavy duty lock?
Nope. Out of sight out of mind. ESP with the easily availiblity of cordless grinder.
As for living day to day with a big van Mines not my car. I wouldn't even try to use it as a day to day car. It's a nightmare to park, it's a night mare on narrow residential streets. It's a night mare to wear through traffic.
But on quiet roads where your not in a rush it's grand.
My mate used to use his transit as a daily driver so he could head out on his board straight from work and reckons you get used to it.
Mine is my 'daily' driver, however I have the use of a work van (a widebody Transit) for commuting so I don't use the van every day. Height restrictions excepted, there are very few places you can't get to in a big van...you just need to get used to using all of the road and give a few seconds thought as to which direction/angle you might need to approach to weave through tight spots.
Even with a big trailer, you can go most places and turn round in a space thats less than the total length of the vehicle.
It does mean my wife's car feels like a little sports car though 🙂
Our Ducato is 6.4m long. It can be a bit of a faff to park (needs about 1.3 supermarket car park spaces) but it'll go most places. Given that we've got things you're not looking for (kids bunks, a washroom) you could easily have something shorter. For a two-berth I think I'd be looking at an SWB, medium roof Ducato/Boxer/Relay with a transverse bed at the rear over a bike garage.
I reckon the ideal is to build up a highroof mwb* into a day van and tow a small caravan.
*something that will fit in a normal carpark space.
Aye no saying it can't be done..... If you seen where I park it at my house you would understand I can drive it.my point is it's entirely different to a regular length vehicle. Hell even the turn off to my house I can only approach from one direction or I'll take the fuel tank off.... 270 degree turn back on your self onto a steep down hill with a stupid sharp camber.
My VW T4 Caravelle has a poptop roof, sliding doors on both sides and sleeps 4 but has no cupboards/sink/fridge etc. So both beds are full width and because the rear seat/bed is on sliding rails, 2 can sleep up top with (at least) 2 bikes securely stored downstairs. It's big enough that 4 of us comfortably drove from the south east to Scotland with bikes and all the gubbins (inside the van) and powerful enough (2.5 TDi) that it took no longer than driving a car. Point is - it's super versatile. And, ahem, it's for sale 🙂
Thought about a pop top too, tempting & practical but does put a sizeable hole in the budget!
Going back to the Bongo, most of the older vans have a motorised pop roof. We kipped in ours when the van was loaded while touring in mainland Europe; with the roof up there was enough room to access the fridge, sink and hob in the van, and then with the roof floor down we'd climb up into the roof and lay down a thin mattress. It's incredibly useful as it turns the van into a genuinely usable space for living in.
However it is just a glorified tent. It ain't warm in winter. So, it depends on your specifications when you want to 'sleep in a camper van'.
This was my effort based on a LWB high top vivaro. Slept 2 with 2 bikes under bed platform. Rear seats were on QR's so could take them out to get the bikes in.
[url= https://www.pinkbike.com/u/matt007/album/Vivaro-camper--race-van/ ]Vivaro mini camper / bike van[/url]
matt007, your Vivaro is pretty close to what I'm thinking of. Where did you get the bed platform from/ who did the conversion? I'm also on Derbyshire so will be looking for reputable companies to help out eventually .
Going back to PJ's comment about the pop top. We have a thermal wrap for our Reimo roof on the T5 and it changes it from basically a tent on the roof of the van to a genuinely warm extension to it. Also keeps it noticeably cooler in summer AND acts as a blackout (= kids don't wake up at sunrise!).