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[Closed] Singular Swift 29er and Suntour Epicon RLD 29er fork reviews

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No beard but maybe just a bit weird,after all I still ride 26" geared h/tails & full sussers as well...


 
Posted : 05/07/2010 4:54 pm
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He has a 26" rigid SS for the 'beat yourself with a woven hemp bull's pizzle' experiance.


 
Posted : 05/07/2010 4:55 pm
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Giles bars are so wide he can only reach one grip at a time!


 
Posted : 05/07/2010 4:58 pm
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I may actually fit a second set of bars in the middle, that I can reach. Like the braces on old DH bars.


 
Posted : 05/07/2010 5:04 pm
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just re read that review, i'd buy a magazine if the copy was that detailed

well done clubber


 
Posted : 05/07/2010 5:44 pm
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'Great review IMO'

Just got back from glentress and Inners riding a 2010 Kona unit 9er geared bounced, superb bike, so much faster than a 26er, not totally sure about the comparison with fs (had a few) but 29er is def the way forward for ME, not everyone but I have had and built many a bike and this is by far the most fun and can keep up aroung GT and inners with great riders on 5" 26 bouncers !

Love em !


 
Posted : 05/07/2010 9:23 pm
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Just in from whipping a quick ride round weston Woods on my Kona Kula
2-9er, love riding it through all the chop and rocks n roots, rigid SS weighing in at 20.4lb

29er isn't for all, but them that do get on with it..enjoy.

End of the day, it's just riding bikes in woods, hills n dirt and it's fun!


 
Posted : 05/07/2010 9:33 pm
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Thanks Rocketdog 😉


 
Posted : 06/07/2010 9:04 am
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I can't find any information on the 15mm axle fitted to the forks, but am I right in assuming that there is no way of fitting a 9mm qr wheel to this fork? or are there adapters available?

Doug


 
Posted : 14/07/2010 10:12 am
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Correct. You'll need a 15mm hub.

(technically, I'm sure you could make some sort of adaptor but it'd be a bodge and the fork isn't designed to work that way though fundamentally the QR works the same way just bigger)


 
Posted : 14/07/2010 10:19 am
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How do the Epicons compare in weight to a Reba 29?
Also do the Epicons have the correct offset for a 29er, in the specification it mentions 44mm?
And finally after a bit of use how are the Epicons bearing up?
And last but not least, which 15mm hub is recommended, I notice Superstar have some on special offer.

Thanks

thesurfbus


 
Posted : 14/07/2010 4:30 pm
 Sam
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Also do the Epicons have the correct offset for a 29er, in the specification it mentions 44mm?

Define 'correct'. I know of forks designed for use with 29" wheels with offsets of between 39mm and 55mm. As such, I'd say 44mm is a nice middle ground.


 
Posted : 14/07/2010 4:33 pm
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Sam - Good question, most modern forks have a greater offset to quicken the steering up, I just wasn't sure if the 44mm quoted in the spec related to offset as it calls it something else. Will check the offset on my current carbon rigid forks.
I will be running them on an 18" Scandal.


 
Posted : 14/07/2010 4:37 pm
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- can't say for sure on the weight as I don't have an accurate Reba weight but:

MrTall - Member
1920g with uncut 255mm steerer and including the Bolt Thru Axle.

1790g without the axle.

Reasonable weight i'd say, certainly for the cost.

which I don't think is particuarly heavy for a 29er fork.

- Offset I believe is 44mm which is more than the 38mm that was on the original Reba 29ers - eg it's in the range of the latest 29er forks (excepting GF G2 ones which are 50-something mm).

- Still working well, no signs of wear. Still much too early to tell really though I've been checking up on 26" Epicons and there don't seem to be any horror stories about them dying.

- Depends really. Ideally you want one that ISN'T a 20mm hub with convertors (eg Hope, Halo and many others) as that won't work properly with the QR15 axle. One with a continuous 15mm tube through it will be ideal (eg Shimano ones). I use a Hope and have a 15mm perspex tube (from ebay) to poke the QR axle through.


 
Posted : 14/07/2010 4:38 pm
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Thanks Clubbers.
My Carbon Rigid fork has a 42mm offset.
Most of the hubs seem to be convertible between 9mm/15mm/20mm, so with the problems you had with the QR you would recommend a 15mm only hub?


 
Posted : 14/07/2010 4:43 pm
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seems a reasonable weight - might give them ago seeing a Minutes seem to be unavailable..


 
Posted : 14/07/2010 4:45 pm
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i have epicons on a Karate Monkey and they have been fine, same prob with the axle,just using an allen key to poke through, using a hope pro2 which i just bought the 15mm spacer kit for...local machine shop will knock out a 16mm internal diameter hub spacer for a few beer tokens when i get time to drop the 20mm spacer off...but no big deal, forks feel just like reba`s, with alloy steerer and stantions there a bit of a bargin at £190, done about 600 miles in last month with them and no probs,air leaks etc...
29er to me is just another different bike in the collection,dont really find it worse at anything though, just go ride your bike 😮


 
Posted : 14/07/2010 4:48 pm
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Coastkid - if you get a tube done make sure it is exactly 15mm internal diameter as i got one from one of my customers who has a plastics factory with what turned out to be a 15.8mm internal diameter and it still wouldn't work. So unless i was unlucky, 16mm will be a no go.

Am liking the forks though, i bought them after you posted a pic of yours on the Karate Monkey. Can't go too far wrong for the price (£180 in the 10% off CRC sale).


 
Posted : 14/07/2010 4:56 pm
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thanks MrTall, maybe just give him the axle and front wheel then he will get it sorted,it was me who thought it would need a bit gap,doh!


 
Posted : 14/07/2010 5:04 pm
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Well I have joined the STW 29er massive and bought a set of Epicons from CRC, went through Quidco and got 4% cashback as well. I went for the Superstar hub in the end as it had the same dimensions as my current front hub, so will save me buying new spokes. Will have the same woes with the front qr, but will have a lookout for a suitable 15mm id tube to live inside the hub.
Thanks for everyones advice and clubber for the initial review.
Coastkid - always like to read your blog when I get bored at work, I am in Midlothian so you are not too far from me.


 
Posted : 16/07/2010 7:38 am
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If you find a bit of tubing with a 15mm ID let us all know as it seems bloody hard to find one. You'l probably end up with a 15mm 'poker' like Clubber and me. 15mm does not seem to be a standard in the piping industry unfortunately.


 
Posted : 16/07/2010 8:40 am
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I will probably come across something suitable eventually, I have found a couple of 15mm id tubes but they are not exactly light enough. I have access to a lathe so might turn something on it.


 
Posted : 16/07/2010 9:56 am
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what would be the best hub to use with this fork? shimano 15mm?


 
Posted : 16/07/2010 12:02 pm
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Any 15mm hub will work, it's just that ones that use adaptors instead of 15mm specific require a 'poker' to get the wheel out of the fork.

Minor inconvenience really but a bit of a bummer if you're out on the trail, get a puncture and realise you've not brought it with you! I'm sure a trailside twig could double up and do what's needed though?

According to Clubber the Shimano hubs are 15mm specific with a continous tube through the hub so i guess those would be easiest. Not sure what other hubs are available that don't use adaptors like Hope & Halo?

Rode with a chap on 26" Epicons recently on his Carrera Bike so you could look at the website for those and see what hubs they use?


 
Posted : 16/07/2010 12:21 pm
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Anyone know the diff between this:

RLD
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?PartnerID=79&ModelID=50689

&

LOC
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=50695

?

sure someone already stated but could not find


 
Posted : 16/07/2010 3:03 pm
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rootes1 - The RLD are the Remote Lockout version and the LOD have the lockout on the top of the fork leg, I went for the RLD, not sure why they are cheaper.


 
Posted : 16/07/2010 3:07 pm
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yer odd that...


 
Posted : 16/07/2010 4:27 pm
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I thought I had the 15mm Id tube sorted, I had an old Pocket Rocket pump which looked about right, after dismantling it turned out to be 16mm Id, I might have to take my calipers down WHSmith as I am sure there must be a pen or something thats the right size.


 
Posted : 16/07/2010 10:15 pm
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Re: Epicon 29s. I've had a set for a month or so now and am getting on ok with them. In terms of weight and stiffness they are superb. (Bolt through forks are great...!) I think there's room for improvement though as they aren't up to RockShox standards in the damping department. If I sent them up for small bump sensitivity, they bottom out on the big stuff. Conversely, setting them up for the big hits results in loss of small bump sensitivity.
I reckon performance can be improved by using different oil weights. Thing is, I can't find any info online as to what the stock oil weights are. If anyone has any ideas please let me know!
I'll probably start with a lower oil change as the stock stuff seems very sticky and could explain loss of small bump sensitivity. Then I'll change the damping unit oil using standard 5wt and take it from there. Anyone have any better ideas?


 
Posted : 26/07/2010 1:59 pm
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That's what I'm going to do though as I said in the initial review, I reckon that adding some oil to the air chamber will improve them by making them less linear -eg you'll be able to set the up with less air pressure without them bottoming out.


 
Posted : 28/07/2010 3:11 pm
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Follow up on the forks - they're still fine though I did notice that they seemed a litte less good in terms of small bump sensitivity on a very wet/muddy ride but after a wash and lube (just from the outside, not taking it apart), it was back to normal.

Otherwise, impressions are the same - a bit too linear and maybe very slightly overdamped for my liking (but I like them very active) but both of those can be adjusted with a bit of tweaking and even without they're still plenty good enough, especially for the money.


 
Posted : 28/07/2010 3:35 pm
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Had my first proper longish ride on mine last night (had lots of little rides before that) and like above, no real issues with them at all. The stock oil is certainly very sticky so the stanchions pick up loads of filth though. I'd be up for changing the oil but would have no idea how to do it. Would any decent shop be able to service them when i need it done or would it be best to go to a Suntour specific place. I guess TF tuned et al would not deal with them. Who is the importer for Suntour in the UK?


 
Posted : 28/07/2010 3:46 pm
 ton
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just put a set of manitou drakes on mine.
100mm and qr. plenty stiff, and nice a supple.

just like me.............. 😉


 
Posted : 28/07/2010 4:06 pm
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Been doing a bit of research into Epicion servicing... They differ from oil bath forks like RS because the fork movement is lubricated with grease and not oil. That explains the "sticky" substance on the sliders. It's grease! I hope they perform better than other grease lubed forks - Pace/DT comes to mind.

There's plenty of videos about how to service them here and on youTube:

http://www.srsuntour-tuning-base.com/index.php?screen=ho.home&postingID=108&sid=1#

But can't see any mention of oil weights. The air cartridge uses 80W gear oil whatever that is but not sure about the damping cartridge. I'll be trying various weights and will report back in a few weeks.

clubber - be very careful changing oil volumes. You could end up blowing seals. Be our guest though for the good of mankind 😉

A


 
Posted : 29/07/2010 1:31 pm
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Nah, the seals will be fine - the recommended pressures are much higher than I'm using so even with a more rising rate they'll still be lower pressure than they're rated to.

I reckon that I'll also add some oil to the lowers to act as a semi oil bath.


 
Posted : 29/07/2010 1:48 pm
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I've had a bit of a play around with oils and changing the oil in the damping cartridge seems to have very little effect. I tried 2.5wt and it didn't improve things. I'm now using 7.5wt Fox float oil and there is very little difference to the stock oil.
Interestingly I removed the damping cartridge and then have a bit of a ride on it and the "stiction" was still there. Two possible explanations I reckon. It could be that the 80wt oil in the air cartridge is providing some compression damping. In which case some thinner stuff in there would help. Secondly it simply could be the fact that they are grease lubed lowers. Removing the grease and replacing with oil would help here. The lower bolts may need seals to stop oil weeping out but I don't see any reason why this shouldn't work.
When I've tried these I'll let you know. At the moment I'm a bit fed up of stripping and fannying so will leave it a few weeks!


 
Posted : 05/08/2010 11:01 am
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...of stripping and fannying so...

Whatever you do in your own time is your business.... 😯


 
Posted : 05/08/2010 11:12 am
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😉

The lowers will hold oil fine I reckon - I've used oil in the lowers of non-oil bath forks for years and they've never leaked to any noticeable degree.


 
Posted : 05/08/2010 11:17 am
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I'm currently looking at affordable 29er suspension fork options and just found this thread (nice review BTW). I'm a tad heavier than clubber at just under 18stone, I've been looking at the Epicons and the Toras for a stop-gap solution until I can find a deal on a set of rebas with a 20mm maxle. There's an offer on 2010 Tora SL for just under £200 new and slightly older Tora 318s seem to be going on ebay for under £100 (I've read about the difference in performance between the non motion control damped SL and the 318 with MoCo, if I get the SL I would also get a MoCo cartridge to upgrade it). Has anyone here had both of these forks? Any comparisons? Are the Suntours still holding up OK?


 
Posted : 24/08/2010 10:03 am
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My Suntours are still fine. Haven't tried the Toras so can't compare to them.


 
Posted : 24/08/2010 4:29 pm
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I've been looking at the Epicons and the Toras for a stop-gap solution until I can find a deal on a set of rebas with a 20mm maxle.

what about Drakes?
[url= http://www.biketart.com/collections/forks-suspension/products/manitou-drake-29-forks-disc-only-2010 ]Click for link to Biketart[/url]

I got some minutes from biketart (good service by the way) and they work nice - drakes seem to the same but heavier


 
Posted : 24/08/2010 5:05 pm
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i've had 318 tora with motion control. very good, feel as good as rebas, stiffer than the earlier rebas but a bit heavy. sold mine on ebay (£100) just because of the weight but i couldn't really fault them otherwise.


 
Posted : 24/08/2010 5:25 pm
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Thanks for the replies...I thought about the Minutes but some negative reviews and lack of discounts put me off them initially, do you have the 20mm axle version or QR? The price offered by biketart makes them look more attractive though... I had overlooked the drakes, they definitely seem worth considering. These are most likely going on a Inbred 29er BTW. On-one said stock is due in about 4-6 weeks so I'm rounding up the extra bits and preparing to strip my 26er in the meantime. It's a shame the Swift is specced for an 80mm fork(I was hoping for something that could take 100-120mm), they have XL in stock at the moment. 😐 Keavo, what did you replace the Tora with if you don't mind me asking?


 
Posted : 24/08/2010 9:25 pm
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awesom-o - Member
...It's a shame the Swift is specced for an 80mm fork(I was hoping for something that could take 100-120mm), they have XL in stock at the moment.

Think that the Swift is actually specced for a 100mm fork 😕


 
Posted : 24/08/2010 9:44 pm
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It's spec'd for 80mm but works perfectly at 100 (read my review at the start!)


 
Posted : 24/08/2010 9:57 pm
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